Buying a boat in Norway... Looking for a surveyor -

[ylop]

Sorry folks this is dragging on...

But what if a UK resident buys boat in Norway, then sales to med/EU, I would have to pay VAT as soon as it arrives, then if I sail it to UK, also pay VAT?
Or would i get some time like the 18 months in the EU na skip a day out of EU and back for 18 months...
Surely I won't be paying VAT every frickin time it goes in and out...

If for some reason you brought it to the UK you would have to pay UK vat on it even if it is EU vat paid. Repeat visits get complicated but you might want to lose several hours of your life reading about returned goods relief etc! I suspect in practical terms if you have proof of EU VAT being paid once you will be fine for VAT in the EU forever. You don't want to bring it to the UK if you are trying to exploit the 18 month rule - you would be better going to somewhere like Turkey, or the Channel Islands. You'll want to get some proof that the boat left the EU - like an invoice for a marina berth. However unless you are fluent in whichever local language you will be in and enjoy beaurocracy I can imagine nothing worse than trying to convince a local in say Croatia or Greece that whatever you had done was right. People sometimes have issues even when they have simple cases.

However, it is irrelevant - whilst the boat can seemingly go in/out of the EU on an 18 month/1day cycle YOU can not - you'll have to do 90/180 days.

This is making boat ownership and living aboard seem absurd!

Its actually dead simple if you just buy a boat that is certified for the country you want to live aboard in! Particularly if you are also resident of that country.

 

[Tranona]

Sorry folks this is dragging on...

But what if a UK resident buys boat in Norway, then sales to med/EU, I would have to pay VAT as soon as it arrives, then if I sail it to UK, also pay VAT?
Or would i get some time like the 18 months in the EU na skip a day out of EU and back for 18 months...
Surely I won't be paying VAT every frickin time it goes in and out... This is making boat ownership and living aboard seem absurd!

Yes, you are right. You need to understand that VAT is a tax on transactions NOT on the asset involved in the transaction. So moving from one customs area to another is considered a potential transaction. A UK resident moving a boat from outside the UK into the UK is a "chargeable event" unless you can claim one of the limited number of reliefs. It is irrelevant what taxes have been paid elsewhere, it is only the nature of the current transaction that counts. The situations you describe would not qualify for any reliefs.

The biggest reliefs related to boats are "returned goods relief" which allows you to take a boat out of the UK (or the EU) and return IF in the same ownership without paying VAT again. This is widely used by people going off on long voyages and then returning home. The other is temporary admission which allows boats from one customs area (UK or EU) to be used in another for 18 months without paying VAT, although if the boat is sold in the "new" customs area VAT is payable if sold to a resident.

For a UK resident temporary admission is valuable as it allows you to take a UK boat into the EU subject to leaving every 18 months to start the clock again. However your personal usage of the boat is constrained by the Schengen rules. You cannot use the same rile the other way around and bring a EU boat into the UK as the relief is not open to UK residents for obvious reasons.

 

[thvoyager]

I am going to try find my Grandads Irish birth certificate! This will solve 95% of problems!

 

[Tranona]

I am going to try find my Grandads Irish birth certificate! This will solve 95% of problems!

Only for you - not for your boat a citizenship of the owner (like registration) is irrelevant to whether VAT is payable or not.

 

[thvoyager]

Only for you - not for your boat a citizenship of the owner (like registration) is irrelevant to whether VAT is payable or not.

I am beginning to think that boat/yacht ownership and lifestyle is made increasingly hard to avert people from living a life of freedom, it's not for your everyday layman or certain demographic. I bloody hate governing bodies, I get it, safety, universal codes of conduct to protect, but some of it just seems ludicrous!
I'm a romantic at heart, but I think a more classical approach is needed to navigate through the rough waters of "boat life".

 

[st599]

I am beginning to think that boat/yacht ownership and lifestyle is made increasingly hard to avert people from living a life of freedom, it's not for your everyday layman or certain demographic. I bloody hate governing bodies, I get it, safety, universal codes of conduct to protect, but some of it just seems ludicrous!
I'm a romantic at heart, but I think a more classical approach is needed to navigate through the rough waters of "boat life".

Yep, but it's a consequence of our actions. It's even been reported by the RYA that the UK turned down the better terms on offer.

 

[jlavery]

I am going to try find my Grandads Irish birth certificate! This will solve 95% of problems!

Afraid this isn't a quick fix. You apply to be put on the "Foreign Births Register" - with a processing time quoted of 2 years (yes, 2 years). Only after then can you apply for an Irish passport. My Foreign Births Register application went in about 6 months ago.

 

[pandos]

I am going to try find my Grandads Irish birth certificate! This will solve 95% of problems!

You could further complicate the situation/ or potentially simplify things by looking in Northern Ireland for a boat where it will have both EU and UK advantages...

If you know your grandad's birth date and where he was born, finding his BC should not be difficult.

 

[thvoyager]

Afraid this isn't a quick fix. You apply to be put on the "Foreign Births Register" - with a processing time quoted of 2 years (yes, 2 years). Only after then can you apply for an Irish passport. My Foreign Births Register application went in about 6 months ago.

I may have 50 years left on earth, I can wait.

Yep, but it's a consequence of our actions. It's even been reported by the RYA that the UK turned down the better terms on offer.

That doesn't surprise me!

 

[thvoyager]

Can I register a new 35/40 year old boat in England that is bought in EU/EEA? And then simply sail it to EU and play the Schengen Shuffle as well as the 18 month rule? And just avoid bringing it to the UK entirely, and maybe one day if I really need must, do the whole RCD/UKCA + VAT situation.

 

[Wansworth]

I took a British boat toSpain after lotsof problems the boat was registered as Spanish……..with the help of an Agent.Maybe the Uk has now become a banana republic an agent might solve all you problems?

 

[Tranona]

Can I register a new 35/40 year old boat in England that is bought in EU/EEA? And then simply sail it to EU and play the Schengen Shuffle as well as the 18 month rule? And just avoid bringing it to the UK entirely, and maybe one day if I really need must, do the whole RCD/UKCA + VAT situation.

Don't think you are reading and more importantly understanding the advice you are given your question has been answered many times in different forms

You need to get your head around 2 basic concepts. You personal "freedom" is governed by Schengen rules since we left the EU. This change applies to all third country citizens - ie the rest of the world outside the EU.

Your boat's freedom is governed by the rules of 2 different customs areas. So if you buy a boat in the EU it has total freedom of movement within the EU, irrespective of who owns it or where it is registered. You can register it in the UK as you seem to be eligible - registration is in effect a "passport" for your boat showing it is British, but has nothing to do with customs rules. However, you as a UK resident cannot bring it into the UK without meeting the tax and certification consequences. Plenty of UK residents own boats in the EU in this way

 

[RupertW]

Afraid this isn't a quick fix. You apply to be put on the "Foreign Births Register" - with a processing time quoted of 2 years (yes, 2 years). Only after then can you apply for an Irish passport. My Foreign Births Register application went in about 6 months ago.

Mine took about 6 weeks from finding the paperwork to receiving the passport but I seem to remember that because my mother was born in Ireland I didn’t have to use the Foreign Births process. Poland is much much harder and expensive my wife is 3 years into the process and hopefully just a couple of months from getting her passport, then with our EU VAT paid boat it’s happy days.

 

[westernman]

Can I register a new 35/40 year old boat in England that is bought in EU/EEA? And then simply sail it to EU and play the Schengen Shuffle as well as the 18 month rule? And just avoid bringing it to the UK entirely, and maybe one day if I really need must, do the whole RCD/UKCA + VAT situation.

As a UK resident you can buy an old boat that is in the EU/EEA. You can use it in the EU/EEA. If you buy it in the EEA you can keep it in the EU for up to 18 months without having to pay VAT. If you do decide to keep it in the EU after 18 months, you would have to pay VAT but there is nothing which needs to be done with respect to RCD II.

You have to play the Schengen shuffle for your self.

Do not bring the boat to the UK while you a resident in the UK. Not even for a day. Before you can use it, you are obliged to get it certified as conforming to UKCA. Which it won't - at least not without expensive modifications.

 

[thvoyager]

Mine took about 6 weeks from finding the paperwork to receiving the passport but I seem to remember that because my mother was born in Ireland I didn’t have to use the Foreign Births process. Poland is much much harder and expensive my wife is 3 years into the process and hopefully just a couple of months from getting her passport, then with our EU VAT paid boat it’s happy days.

And you didn't have to live in Ireland for x years?

 

[thvoyager]

As a UK resident you can buy an old boat that is in the EU/EEA. You can use it in the EU/EEA. If you buy it in the EEA you can keep it in the EU for up to 18 months without having to pay VAT. If you do decide to keep it in the EU after 18 months, you would have to pay VAT but there is nothing which needs to be done with respect to RCD II.

You have to play the Schengen shuffle for your self.

Do not bring the boat to the UK while you a resident in the UK. Not even for a day. Before you can use it, you are obliged to get it certified as conforming to UKCA. Which it won't - at least not without expensive modifications.

Hypothetically speaking of course, if I did sail it back to the UK, say Scotland on an obscure small marina, and moored up for 1 week, what would happen? Nothing I assume? As in it's kind of like not paying your TV license? Asking for a friend.

 

[westernman]

Hypothetically speaking of course, if I did sail it back to the UK, say Scotland on an obscure small marina, and moored up for 1 week, what would happen? Nothing I assume? As in it's kind of like not paying your TV license? Asking for a friend.

No idea.

Don' t try something like that in France though. They have "semaphore" stations around the coast and they keep track of who comes and goes. Including small pleasure boats.

In France and Spain from time to time you see douanes walking the docks. In Spain, I was asked for my passport (only interested in the passport of El Capitano) and boat registration. I did not have the registration as that was in the marina office and told them so. No idea if they did check up on it or not.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

If you buy it in the EEA you can keep it in the EU for up to 18 months without having to pay VAT. If you do decide to keep it in the EU after 18 months, you would have to pay VAT...

Or take the boat out of the EU for 1 day, but not to the UK if a UK resident.

 

[Beneteau381]

You will need to pay VAT immediately. As soon as you arrive. Be prepared to justify the value. Obviously as low as possible.
Then before you use the boat, it will have to get its RCD II certification.

This will require installing a new engine, redoing the gas installation (if any).
A lot of other stuff will need taking care of (smoke detectors, CO detector, fire blanket, the required number of up to date fire extinguishers etc etc), but this will mostly be small beer compared to the cost of a new engine installation.

Here are the guidelines.
https://ec.europa.eu/docsroom/documents/48294/attachments/1/translations/en/renditions/native

In particular digest well the meaning and implications of article 12 (private importers).

What does smoke detectors co detector etc have to do with it?

 

[AngusMcDoon]

And then simply sail it to EU and play the Schengen Shuffle...

According to the rules, if you have enough investments to be able to get a French tourist visa, you can get two and a half years in EU/ France before having to leave. The standard Schengen visa is 90 days out of 180 in any Schengen country, and a French 6 month tourist visa is in addition to Schengen, and you are allowed one per calendar year. You must not spend more than 6 months in France in any one calendar year to avoid being resident as then you cannot use the Temporary Admission scheme and your boat would be liable to VAT and certification. This is how you could do two and a half years in the Med...

Year 1
April to June: 90 days Schengen visa, not in France
July to December: 6 month French tourist visa in France

Year 2
Jan to March: 90 days Schengen visa, not in France
April to Sep: 6 month French tourist visa in France
Oct to Dec: 90 days Schengen visa, not in France

Year 3
Jan to June: 6 month French tourist visa in France
July to Sep: 90 days Schengen visa, not in France

On that schedule you don't break the Schengen 90/180 rule, or more than 6 months per year in France as a tourist. The boat would have to leave in the middle to avoid breaking the 18 month rule for the boat. This is all theoretical from my understanding of the rules. I don't know if it's possible in reality.