Buy a boat for the future, now?

[andyb28]

Good Evening,

I am sure I have read on here previously a discussion about not buying the boat you need now, but a bigger one for the future. Or something along those lines. I did search for an example but couldn't find it.

New boat shopping is a fun thing and I had my ideal boat down to a couple of options. They are 30-32 foot sailing boats with the traditional down below setup of two bench seats with a table in the middle. Its the size boat that's manageable and right for me right now, but the above logic from the forum does keep me thinking about going bigger. The problem is most of my sailing is done solo. I am considering a bigger boat for those occasions when family / friends come on boat. Entertaining on a bigger boat would make a huge difference.

Recently, I went and looked at a Jeanneau 37, which was very nice. But way way too big for me. However, the 34.2 seems like a good compromise between the SO37 and other boats I have been looking at.
But they still look rather big too me right now. Although I haven't seen a 34.2 up close yet. When I stood in the cockpit of the 37 and looked forward, hah it was HUGE! (It screams mooring issues to me).

I am sure, after a while you get used to getting a bigger boat.
Is it better to get something a bit bigger like a SO34.2 and have extra room and accept that I will get used to it? I have already chopped and changed a lot with boats and I am trying to buy one this time that will stay with me a long time.

I guess I should add due to the boats I have mentioned that I am a coastal cruiser, not a racer.

Many thanks
Andy

 

[Stingo]

The biggest boat that I've done a three day passage on, single handed, was a 52ft mono. It was bliss. Nothing at all made it unpredictable.

• Sleeping; I may as well have been in a flat
• Cooking; the galley stayed relatively still
• Coffee; you can't expect your mug to stay put, but you're not far from being able to

Don't be intimidated by size - the bigger they are, the less they bounce about, which is really nice!

 

[dunedin]

As covered in previous threads, for single handing size is not an issue IF you learn to think differently. But needs the right specification so, in order of priority (a) bulletproof below decks autopilot ram (b) bow thruster with remote control, (c) electric windlass, and ideally (d) electric halyard winch.
Then for marina docking the rules is never plan to step off onto a pontoon with a rope until secured - and perhaps kettle on. Use loop of rope through centre cleat back to genoa winch to secure boat under engine, rather than leaps ashore.
Having said that, don’t get a bigger boat than you need now unless you have plenty of funds to cover running, mooring and maintenance costs. Perhaps prices might soften in years ahead.

 

[Tranona]

Good Evening,

I am sure I have read on here previously a discussion about not buying the boat you need now, but a bigger one for the future. Or something along those lines. I did search for an example but couldn't find it.

New boat shopping is a fun thing and I had my ideal boat down to a couple of options. They are 30-32 foot sailing boats with the traditional down below setup of two bench seats with a table in the middle. Its the size boat that's manageable and right for me right now, but the above logic from the forum does keep me thinking about going bigger. The problem is most of my sailing is done solo. I am considering a bigger boat for those occasions when family / friends come on boat. Entertaining on a bigger boat would make a huge difference.

Recently, I went and looked at a Jeanneau 37, which was very nice. But way way too big for me. However, the 34.2 seems like a good compromise between the SO37 and other boats I have been looking at.
But they still look rather big too me right now. Although I haven't seen a 34.2 up close yet. When I stood in the cockpit of the 37 and looked forward, hah it was HUGE! (It screams mooring issues to me).

I am sure, after a while you get used to getting a bigger boat.
Is it better to get something a bit bigger like a SO34.2 and have extra room and accept that I will get used to it? I have already chopped and changed a lot with boats and I am trying to buy one this time that will stay with me a long time.

I guess I should add due to the boats I have mentioned that I am a coastal cruiser, not a racer.

Many thanks
Andy

To me that is the ideal size for a single hander who might want company at times. Modern 33/4 footers generally have more space down below than older boats 3-4' longer because of the stub ends. I had a 2001 Bavaria 37 (actually over 38' long) which I replaced with a 2015 Bavaria 33. When I was buying the similar size Jeanneau, Hanse, Beneteau were on the short list. Difficult to differentiate between them but the Bavaria won primarily for ease of handling from the cockpit with in mast and relatively small foresail plus a cruising chute on a furler. For parking a bow thruster is just about essential and follow Dunedin's advice to stay on the boat until a line is attached. A wireless remote for the BT and windlass also worth having. That does not mean the next size up is too big - you soon get used to it but the incremental benefits are to my mind not worth the extra costs.

 

[MontyMariner]

The problem is most of my sailing is done solo.

Therefore a consideration, unless you are a 'man of means' should also be the maintenance, mooring and overnight visitors costs.
They go up exponentially with size!

 

[KompetentKrew]

I think it depends on how much experience you have. My first boat was (is) 40' and I learned to sail it singlehanded - it's doable, but it's sometimes a handful. I had plenty of experience as crew on 40' boats, but when I bought my boat I was no skipper.

I think a much better way to learn would be on a smaller boat in familiar waters - just keep taking it out of Gosport or wherever every weekend.

There are always things that need fixing when you own a boat, and the temptation is to "do a proper job" and spend more money (upgrading the electronics or whatever(). So that is seen as a sunk cost if you're buying a boat you plan to upgrade in the future. I think if you can be disciplined and say "I'm going to sail this boat for 2 or 3 years and then sell it in favour of my forrever boat" then that's probably a good way to do it - don't buy the new chartplotter, instead sail the tits off your small boat and promise yourself, "I'll buy a fancy chartplotter when I buy the Jeanneau".

A big boat has lots of mass, and mistakes cost you more. I cannot emphasise this enough. You think you know how much work and money boat maintenance will be, but the reality is worse - the reality is that a lot of people on this forum are very handy; what they take in their stride others may find a lot more work.

Also, many of the people on this forum take their own experience for granted - they grew up sailing with their parents, and sometimes they have 40 years sailing experience as adults themselves, so they will carelessly say, "oh, go for the bigger boat, it's no bother". You can get a Day Skipper from a 5-day course following a 5-day Competent Crew course and IMO that makes you reasonably qualified to take your 25' boat out of Gosport for day sailing and weekends.

 

[lustyd]

We have the SO36.2 and if I were regularly single handing I’d go smaller unless also wanting to do long passages a lot.
There’s surprisingly little difference in layout between the 29.2, 32.2, 34.2 and 36.2. Ours is noticeably stiffer and doesn’t rock as much when you move on board, I’m sure this translates to easier passages too. The accommodation is bigger but essentially the same large master bed to the stern with good heads and shower plus a vberth. Each has a good galley with fridge too.
The larger ones enable more solar, battery and water which is useful for us, and we can fit the dinghy on the foredeck inflated.
I’d say we’re no more able to have guests than a 29.2 and I’d draw the line at 4 on people board with either boat.

 

[doug748]

Good Evening,

I am sure I have read on here previously a discussion about not buying the boat you need now, but a bigger one for the future. Or something along those lines. I did search for an example but couldn't find it.

New boat shopping is a fun thing and I had my ideal boat down to a couple of options. They are 30-32 foot sailing boats with the traditional down below setup of two bench seats with a table in the middle. Its the size boat that's manageable and right for me right now, but the above logic from the forum does keep me thinking about going bigger. The problem is most of my sailing is done solo. I am considering a bigger boat for those occasions when family / friends come on boat. Entertaining on a bigger boat would make a huge difference.

Recently, I went and looked at a Jeanneau 37, which was very nice. But way way too big for me. However, the 34.2 seems like a good compromise between the SO37 and other boats I have been looking at.
But they still look rather big too me right now. Although I haven't seen a 34.2 up close yet. When I stood in the cockpit of the 37 and looked forward, hah it was HUGE! (It screams mooring issues to me).

I am sure, after a while you get used to getting a bigger boat.
Is it better to get something a bit bigger like a SO34.2 and have extra room and accept that I will get used to it? I have already chopped and changed a lot with boats and I am trying to buy one this time that will stay with me a long time.

I guess I should add due to the boats I have mentioned that I am a coastal cruiser, not a racer.

Many thanks
Andy

Keep your eye on the ball. Have the family shown enthusiasm already? If they visit regularly and take a hand, it is worth thinking about accommodation. If not, don't let it cloud your thinking, people tend to take less interest not more and you might get lumbered with an expensive boat, bigger than you need. There is no linear path, no best boat and a bigger boat is not better if it does not suit what you want from it.

The only problem with singlehanding that never goes away with experience, is coming alongside in a marina. It's fine if you are day sailing from your own berth but beyond that you are hugger mugger with everyone else; entering marinas blind, being allocated difficult berths, in poor conditions of tide and wind. You have to be comfortable with that even if you can't ever be happy.

I think you are correct, the 32 ft to 34 ft range sounds fine. Quarter cabins are great but smaller boats so equipped tend to have small saloons and poor stowage. If by entertaining you mean having visitors on board for drinks etc, then I would look for something with a C sharped settee in the saloon. A lot of bigger boats don't actually have better facilities in an absolute sense, for example a Rival 32 has pretty much the same things as a Rustler or She 36. The difference is performance and space, if you are not interested in either it concentrates the mind. There is a big difference in buying and running costs.
One point about space, the average height in the UK is probably about 5ft 6in average weight about 11 stone (guesses) if you and the family that are actually interested, are all 15 stone six footers, it will reflect on your choice.

I had similar thoughts some 10 years before retirement and bought a boat at the lower end of the scale. It's compact size has suited me well and I have kept it decades. Not chopping and changing saves a lot of money but ,for sure, some people do enjoy it.

.

 

[andyb28]

Many thanks for your replies and suggestions.

I have been sailing for around 5 years now with various sized boats. But I would still call myself a newbie as I dont get to do anything more than little trips out due to work at the moment.
The funny thing is, when I went to go look at the SO37, I figured 5 ft over what I am used to isnt that much. It's roughly the height of my wife. Goodness me, how wrong i was. 5 ft makes a huge difference.

But I do think the SO34.2 whilst bigger, wont feel quite so daunting. I just really like that curved seating.

I went back and watched some old "Sailing with the Foxwell Family" Youtube videos. When they first got their SO34.2. He clearly didnt like it, but did go on to say that it was mainly because he is a racer. I have no desire to do anything other than plod around the East Coast.

 

[lydiamight]

I had a Dehler 36 CWS for many years. The Central winch System makes it very easy to sail single handed.

 

[dunedin]

Therefore a consideration, unless you are a 'man of means' should also be the maintenance, mooring and overnight visitors costs.
They go up exponentially with size!

Mooring and overnight costs do NOT go up “exponentially”. They generally go up linearly by length - so a 37 footer only 15% more than a 33 footer. And many parts are independent of boat size - especially domestic cabin items etc.
But of course some other things do go up to the cube of size - some costs and interior space.

 

[oldbloke]

Many thanks for your replies and suggestions.

I have been sailing for around 5 years now with various sized boats. But I would still call myself a newbie as I dont get to do anything more than little trips out due to work at the moment.
The funny thing is, when I went to go look at the SO37, I figured 5 ft over what I am used to isnt that much. It's roughly the height of my wife. Goodness me, how wrong i was. 5 ft makes a huge difference.

But I do think the SO34.2 whilst bigger, wont feel quite so daunting. I just really like that curved seating.

I went back and watched some old "Sailing with the Foxwell Family" Youtube videos. When they first got their SO34.2. He clearly didnt like it, but did go on to say that it was mainly because he is a racer. I have no desire to do anything other than plod around the East Coast.

To a large extent its the bit in the middle that gets bigger and the ends stay the same, and the boat will probably get wider, so the useable volume increases markedly.
Having said that I don't think a 34 'er would present significantly greater challenges than a 32'er.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I’ve sailed various boats single handed over the years, and confession, I do belong to the group who started sailing in nappies.

I started in an optimist aged around 5 and bounced it off every moored boat in Loch Tummel, at 14 I piloted the family Vega through the Crinan canal while my parents and family did the locks and ropes. I’ve since sailed all sorts of dinghies and yachts, and I’ve chartered various boats from 32 to 46 foot.

The first “big” boat I owned was a 1999 Bavaria 36. I would have had something bigger but with a young family, the cost was an issue.

I’ve recently bought my forever boat, a Bavaria 44 Vision, which in my opinion is just about perfect for me. As mentioned earlier, at this size they are like small flats, and I can single-hand it no problem. I agree, there are a few things that are essential - a windlass as it is not possible for me to raise the anchor unaided, and a solid autopilot. This is the first bow thruster boat I’ve had and I’m still working out how useful it is. I sail in the Med now mostly but grew up sailing the West Coast of Scotland, and have since chartered in Scotland, Greece, Croatia, and Thailand. I’ve never used a bow thruster in my previous 50 years of sailing so I’m getting used to when and how I can use it. I have electric winches for the genoa and main, and an electric furling genoa – which is effectively push-button sailing, but not necessary.

What surprised me with this boat, and the others of similar size, was how much more docile bigger, heavier, boats are – everything happens much more slowly but with a lot more weight behind it. The big advantage is they drift more slowly in cross-winds, and don’t rock or pitch about as much. The downside is that if you hit anything, even with very little way on, you are unlikely to bounce off with no damage and you can’t stop it by hand – even using ropes can put a huge load on mooring cleats and heavy ropes load up like a bow string. It just takes a bit of getting used to, so a good sense of self-preservation, and a calm and level-headed approach helps enormously.

My advice would be to get the biggest boat you can afford and hone your skills on that – then you can kit it out with all the other things that make owning a boat more rewarding than chartering. Grabbing buoys and docking will need more accuracy and speed control as you can’t just use muscle to stop the boat. Once it is stopped however, it can still be moved by hand or with the aid of winches/ropes. It might seem daunting at first, it certainly was for me, but you soon get used to it.

The smaller the boat, the quicker everything happens – and my biggest single-handing wipe-outs were on my 5m beach catamaran on the lake where I live – the most dangerous was when I almost got cheese-wired on the forestay when the bows went under and I swung round the mast on the end of a trapeze. Had to be righted by the “Wasserwacht” who were kind enough to lift the end of the mast up out of the waves so I could right the cat.

If I had the funds, I would have gone big from the start. You learn to handle the boat you have, and mistakes will be made – even on smaller boats.

 

[MontyMariner]

Mooring and overnight costs do NOT go up “exponentially”. They generally go up linearly by length

That may well be the literal fact, but it doesn't feel like that on my pocket

 

[Sea Change]

Financially, if you KNOW that you're going to want a bigger boat in the future, then the decision comes down to the extra running costs of a big boat now vs the costs associated with changing boats- especially if you end up with an overlap. So it really comes down to how long you would want to sail the small boat.

 

[mrming]

Many thanks for your replies and suggestions.

I have been sailing for around 5 years now with various sized boats. But I would still call myself a newbie as I dont get to do anything more than little trips out due to work at the moment.
The funny thing is, when I went to go look at the SO37, I figured 5 ft over what I am used to isnt that much. It's roughly the height of my wife. Goodness me, how wrong i was. 5 ft makes a huge difference.

But I do think the SO34.2 whilst bigger, wont feel quite so daunting. I just really like that curved seating.

I went back and watched some old "Sailing with the Foxwell Family" Youtube videos. When they first got their SO34.2. He clearly didnt like it, but did go on to say that it was mainly because he is a racer. I have no desire to do anything other than plod around the East Coast.

I think the dinette seating / linear galley layout in the 34.2 is a bit of an odd choice for a boat that size. Depends how you plan to use the boat of course, but if you like to put your feet up and read a book, there's nowhere to do it down below. With port and starboard settees, two people can stretch out in comfort.

 

[Supertramp]

I agree with those who said things happen slower in a larger (or heavier) boat, which I find helps especially when singlehanded. But I would be uncomfortable alone with some large volume 38+ models due to their bulk and freeboard. 34-36 feels like a good upper size limit.

Assuming you are looking at used, not new, them it's worth thinking about the features that make handling easier. Items like bowthruster, gates in the lifelines for easy access, freeboard, midships cleats, single rudder vs twin, engine control position, autopilot, visibility from the helm. A boat equipped well to begin with may be better than choosing a specific model lacking the features you want. Although you can retrofit.

My view would be to buy a boat to keep long term. That way you will be inclined to fix things properly and learn the handling characteristics over many years. It's a relatively minor point but my visitors really appreciate getting their own cabin and toilet. I appreciate having a large cupboard when solo.