Bristol Channel Sailing

[Yellow Ballad]

Rather then drifting the thread on the inland waterway thread I wanted to ask the question....

I've bought a boat based in the Bristol Channel and I'm keeping it there as it a good drive down to the club, they're friendly, it's cheap... I'm new to the big boat game but I've heard things, "if you can sail in the Bristol Channel you can sail anywhere", " I wouldn't sail in the BC", etc etc and the talk in the other thread has prompted me to ask.

I know there's big tides, I understand it may get choppy on a wind over tide with a massive volume of water flooding it, and you have to plan your sailing, but what's so bad about the Bristol Channel? I've not spoken to anyone in the club that dislikes sailing there, or have warned me off (not that they would).

I'm asking really so I'm forewarned rather then to put me off.
Any advice gratefully welcome.

Tom

 

[[70521]]

The Bristol Channel is fine, OK a challenge with big tides and you need to understand how to calculate secondary port tide heights and times. I purchased my first boat near Ilfracombe, but moved her to the south Devon coast as this gave a much wider cruising ground. Within 100 miles, a long day sail, I have The Solent, the Dorset Coast, the Devon Coast, Cornwall as far as Falmouth, the Channel Islands and France. For me it was a no brainer.

 

[Seajet]

What turns me off is not the big tides; I've happily spent many times sailing around the Channel Isles & Brittany; it's the grim land & seascapes, the fact the ' water ' is fast flowing thin mud, and there are so few ports to visit, even less attractive ones.

IMHO of course.

 

[bitbaltic]

Rather then drifting the thread on the inland waterway thread I wanted to ask the question....

what's so bad about the Bristol Channel?

Nothing. But it takes more planning than many other sailing areas because:

I understand it may get choppy on a wind over tide

is an understatement. SW F6, F7 against a big ebb tide in the channel can produce the sort of sea state you might associate with a severe gale in other areas. As a result it is easy to make weather mistakes when you first start sailing in the area, going out on spring tides and finding unexpected and relatively extreme conditions. Waves can get quite big quite quickly and they are very close together so the boat's motion can be extremely uncomfortable. It is quite possible to find your family day sail turning into an experience the wife and kids may not be keen to repeat.

Also

I know there's big tides

is an understatement. It's easy to make tide mistakes (seperately from weather mistakes) especially in smaller boats. The tide can be very difficult to punch against even in a flat sea if the boat is not decently powered. Small boats with smallish inboards or outboards cannot effectively punch it. A pal proved that with his modern 26-footer when he got his tides wrong and blew up a newish 10hp engine trying to get into Portishead against a spring ebb.

Seajet's point about ports is relevant too. Not all are unattractive but all are far apart. For instance, the largest lesiure port in the BC is Cardiff, and the nearest port you can visit is Portishead, 18Nm away. That's nearly enough the entire length of the Solent, and there's only one place to go.

So, there's nothing wrong with the Bristol Channel, but you have to be well prepared, with a well-found boat which you know well, and be able to be reasonably self-sufficient over relatively long distances at sea. If you don't have that lot when you start, you'll make the mistakes which will teach you quick. And then you'll be telling south-coast softies that if you can sail in the Bristol Channel, you can sail anywhere*.

*Pentland Firth excepted

 

[jwilson]

I sailed there for quite a few years. OK the upper channel is muddy, but on one ebb tide you can be in blue(ish) water, and even in a small slow boat Pembrokeshire is only two or three at worst tides away. I never found (indeed rarely bothered with) any need for much precise tidal calculations: once a bit above half flood there's plenty of water.

People who say the harbours are few and dreary usually mean marinas - there are quite a lot of attractive and interesting harbours. Most dry though.

 

[Seajet]

Or you could try the BC, compare it with other rough places like the Channel Islands and Brittany which are much more attractive, and decide to give the BC a miss for this lifetime while showing the sense to base your boat somewhere pleasant.

 

[rotrax]

We quite coincidentally purchased our last two boats from their BC bases. The first was in Watchet, the second up the G&S Canal in Gloucester Docks.

The pro's and con's have been expressed by others with more knowlege of the area, but my imression of two delivery trips, one started in fast arriving heavy weather which was not forcast, resulting in five nights on the hook alongside the Lundy boat in Ilfracombe's Outer Harbour, the other a pleasant trip in benign conditions left me with feelings of aprehension should things go tits up.

There are few safe havens for boats that cant take the ground on the southern side, the further west you go the more inhospitable the rock bound lee shore becomes.

The wildlife, however is spectacular with all sorts of birds including Puffins early in the year and plenty of Dolphins.

As Seajet proposes, other places offer quiet sailing in spectacular surroundings without the murky brown water at the eastern end and lack of safe havens at the western end.

It would not be my choice for a base.

 

[Reptile Smile]

What I find infuriating about Seajet's approach is not his opinion - that, he is of course entitled to - it's the fact that he tries to switch so many other people off the BC, which, for those of us who run or are involved with small sailing clubs, is potentially very damaging.

The BC is a wonderful sailing base; challenging, complex and in many places beautiful. If mud bothers, whatever, but it absolutely is complete rubbish about sailing in thin mud. Yes, when you moor in a harbour off the estuary itself, you might have more cleaning to do. Whatever...

You cover huge miles in a season, because the tide pushes you great distances. Lundy is 75 miles from Portishead, and there's a famous local challenge about leaving on a Friday night from Portishead, having a pint in the Marisco Tavern on the Saturday, and being back in Portishead for the Sunday night. That's a pretty stiff challenge in most areas, let alone in small boats.

If you haven't tried it yet, why not come and see if it suits you - it doesn't suit everyone, and that's fine. But don't be put off by the prejudices of others. There are many who would rather sail every other weekend because their boat is close to home, rather than every other month because their boat is miles away, but even that miss-sells the charm of the Severn estuary. Like I said, why not come and see if it suits you..?

 

[fergie_mac66]

Get a copy of the blue book watChet chandlers somtimes have a copy can be hard to find

Take your time and take care if you are new to sailing and dont get bitten by the wind tide or you might find the wife says I'm
wife friends bottle out and you become a solo sailor ! Having said that 7 8 knots 0ff tide behind you can give a joyouse experience.

 

[Halo]

I sailed in the Bristol Channel for 5 years (out of Uphill). It is a great cruising ground and I only moved the boat when I changed jobs and moved North. As others have said you can use the tides to cover large distances in a tide and there are eddies in some of the bays that can help go against the tide. If you have a 4 knot tide under you and can make 5 knots through the water then you can cover 18 miles in 2 hours !
There is a lot of fun to be had going up the Avon to Bristol, and down the Welsh side to Cardiff, Barry, Swansea, and Milford Haven.
If you rule out the BC then you would rule out most of the UK for similar reasons.
I accept there are more attractive areas but these also have disadvantages such as overcrowding and overpricing. I for one prefer sailing outside the boat soup of the sailing hotspots.

 

[Snifter]

I learned to sail 60 years ago in Swansea Bay, and have had a cruiser at the top end of the BC (at Oldbury) for the last ten years. I've sailed with friends between times on the east and south coasts, CI, Brittany, an ARC+, and last October from Greenland back to Bristol.
There is nowhere I'd rather keep a boat and sail than the BC (although the West Coast of Greenland is now my favourite cruising ground!). Last Thursday I sailed to Cardiff and back for lunch with a friend who is keen to learn, and took her out again this Thursday for a sail to Sharpness and back. In 12 hours of sailing I saw one other yacht, but five big commercial ships. Wild, beautiful, challenging and deserted - and crazy escalator tides! Coming under the old Severn Bridge last week in the dark doing 3.5kts through the water, and 13kts over the ground.
A bilge keel or triple keeler helps for the drying harbours, and certainly helps if you misjudge the sandbanks on a falling tide.
I agree with Reptile Smile's comments, and as suggested by fergiemac66 a BCYA Blue Book is a useful guide. I can send you one for £5 plus p and p if you PM me. There are plenty of friendly clubs to help, and also of course a separate BC forum on this site.

 

[[3889]]

The tide can be very difficult to punch against even in a flat sea if the boat is not decently powered. Small boats with smallish inboards or outboards cannot effectively punch it. A pal proved that with his modern 26-footer when he got his tides wrong and blew up a newish 10hp engine trying to get into Portishead against a spring ebb.

Not sure why tidal strength is relevant to engine power. If a boat is properly engined to be driven at hull speed then it will achieve hull speed through the water regardless of tide. If it cannot achieve hull speed this is a problem all of the time, not just in strong currents. Big engines may overcome wind but tide has no bearing on engine size.

My experience of the BC is that is not the best, the worst or the most difficult sailing area and if I lived nearby I would probably keep my boat there. Not something I'd say about the Solent on the basis of the gross overcrowding.

 

[Seajet]

Reptile Smile,
I certainly don't want to affect any sailing club, I think every one is precious; but newcomers do deserve to know the situation; members of any club anywhere will always say ' this is the best place ', otherwise they look rather foolish ' I've invested money, time and effort into a grot situation ' !

The comments about the Solent being overcrowded simply don't hold up; even on the peak times there are plenty of attractive places to go, if one either knows them or can read pilot books etc - and it need not be expensive either - I bet the BC is a lot more expensive than my rather delightful mooring & club, as places are so restricted in the Bristol Channel.

 

[RIBW]

The answer to the OP will depend on what type of sailing one prefers.
I sail frequently (on my boat in Cornwall) with a friend who keeps his boat near Avonmouth. He loves the physical act of sailing i.e. moving the boat through the water and BC offers him plenty of challenges! He loves it and is out on the brown often.
I prefer navigation and finding interesting destinations. (Repeated visits to Cardiff would not suit me).
As to those who advocate the possibility of destinations such as MH and Lundy; I am in a club that charters a largish steel craft which is capabe of 12kn. We select favourable tidal conditions in May. We have attempted Lundy each of the last 11 years. On average, we make it 1 year in 3 due to weather. Blissful when we do make it 'tho.
I would suggest the OP identifies which type of 'sailing' he prefers before making a decision.
Merry Xmas
Bob

 

[Reptile Smile]

I pay £92 per year on a 24 footer. How about you? We have buckets of space, as do all other clubs I know here.

 

[Seajet]

What do you get for that then ?

I get a sheltered half tide mooring ( I supply and maintain the topchain, club members inc self maintain the rest inc sinker ) - lift in & out by club hoist, excellent - non snooty - clubhouse, winter ashore with power & water, secure tender pen by the slip, car parking, boatshed with workbench, lots of friendly members to help with any problems.

This is all within a few minutes walk to 2 nice old pubs serving good food, a nature sanctuary, shoreside walks for miles in several directions, and a top notch marina nearby should I want to use it for elderly / infirm crew or anything.

 

[Yellow Ballad]

Firstly, thank you for the replies and Merry Christmas to you all.

I understand the point about it may not be the most attractive place to sail but that doesn't really bother me to much. I can't go spoiling myself with Scotish mountain views, otherwise I wouldn't want to sail to those sort of places.

I'm a young (ish) guy, and I have some good mates who I'm sure will like the thrill of chopping through the water. The wife and lad will come out on the quiter days, more then likely down to Cardiff, I'm quite looking forward to getting up the Avon to Bristol for a weekend with them. I imagine I'll be doing more shorthanded/solo stuff eventually but I do want to cover distance if I can. (being able to get to Ireland/ North Wales/ IOM/ Scotland/ South Coast on a 2 week sail is pretty attractive to me)

I have to say Newport Uskmouth seems a great club, just nice folk who have been more then welcoming and it's £200 a year which enables me to afford a boat. From where I live it's a good drive which would mean I will be able to sail more often. Security is fantastic (you have to drive through a powerstation) and the mooring is well sheltered so being 100 miles away it's one thing off my mind, plus there's always someone there keeping an eye on the boats. I looked at North Wales but I couldn't really make a better case for either place (Menai seems to have it's own "true tales"). I have no plans on moving the boat elsewhere, but as I mentioned I want to be warned about what to expect, you hear all these BC comments "it can be fun between the bridges" but no one actually spells it out what to expect and in what conditions, I was starting to think that anything above a F2 would be the crew feeding the fish. The people at the club don't seem fazed by sailing there at all and it would be silly of me not to use the local knowledge of the club members (plus have the previous owner around for advice).

I'm really looking forward to it, but I want to be prepared. I've got the Blue Book and the Peter Cumberlidge guide (which doesn't seem as good compared).

Thanks all.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

We had our boat for 5 years at the edge of Bristol Channel, in Pembrokeshire. Tidal heights, tidal speed and rough seas are the norm. However, the kids loved it and there are a number of places to go to, it just needs a bit more planning. We have been in Southampton water for the last seven years and sailing in the Solent with the same boat; the sailing style is very different but equally as fun.

 

[Reptile Smile]

What do you get for that then ?

12 month year round trot mooring, club punts, storage in container, clubhouse (basic, but I didn't join for that), expertise from supportive and friendly members, drying posts, slip way, and the most stunning location in a secluded section of an area of SSSI. Oh, and walking distance of a pub, obviously...

 

[doug748]

I have to say Newport Uskmouth seems a great club, just nice folk who have been more then welcoming and it's £200 a year which enables me to afford a boat. From where I live it's a good drive which would mean I will be able to sail more often. Security is fantastic (you have to drive through a powerstation) and the mooring is well sheltered so being 100 miles away it's one thing off my mind, plus there's always someone there keeping an eye on the boats.
.

I purchased my present boat off those moorings on the Usk, a similar sort of deep keel to yours, they just sit in the mud on the fore and aft trots or the little cut.

The vendor drove from the Home Counties because he liked the sailing and the club. I guess, the cost was attractive though he was pretty well placed and could afford anywhere. He kept his 35ft Oyster there for some years in exactly the same manner.