Bow thrusters and mooring buoys

[dunedin]

Recently there was an RNLI callout near here to a power boat that had managed to entangle its bow thruster in the mooring pickup rope when departing a mooring.
I had assumed that people wouldn’t be mad enough to use a bow thruster when either picking up or departing a mooring buoy that has a pick up rope. Clearly it is almost perfectly designed to suck in the rope. Surely this was just an isolated case.

Yet today in exactly the same location a sailing yacht came in - rather than head downwind, then turn upwind towards the buoy it zig zagged around for ages using the bow thruster close to 3 separate moorings before finally succeeding in getting close enough to pick one up - fortunately via the boathook, miraculously failing to snag the rope in the thruster. Bizarrely even after hooking the loop on a cleat, they continue to bow thrust side to side for 5 minutes or so, seeming to think the boat wasn’t angled correctly - rather than letting the wind gently settle the boat.

Fortunately they are downwind of us. Never seen this before in Scotland. Is this common (mal-) practice elsewhere?

So they departed today. Cue a series of bow thruster blasts for a minute or so before even dropping the mooring. Then more bow thruster as rope dropped into the water - but with the luck of the ignorant the rope wasn’t sucked in before the boat drifted back a foot or so. More bow thruster then reversed back. Then engine on hard to pass close between other moored boats, vainly using bow thruster as secondary steering at 5 knots!

 

[ylop]

So why is it such a problem then?

Having only sailed a boat with thrusters once, and never having had cause to pick up a mooring in that week I think it highlighted a point to consider which is totally obvious to dunedin but actually might seem like a good idea if your bow ends up blown off target. The fact he's seen two people doing it in the same area within a week suggests that perhaps charter handovers are not stating the obvious or schools are not highlighting this.

Do you think using thrusters around floating pickups is not really a huge risk and the person in the OP just got very unlucky or that the risk of entaglement is so obvious that virtually nobody would ever do it?

 

[capnsensible]

Having only sailed a boat with thrusters once, and never having had cause to pick up a mooring in that week I think it highlighted a point to consider which is totally obvious to dunedin but actually might seem like a good idea if your bow ends up blown off target. The fact he's seen two people doing it in the same area within a week suggests that perhaps charter handovers are not stating the obvious or schools are not highlighting this.

Do you think using thrusters around floating pickups is not really a huge risk and the person in the OP just got very unlucky or that the risk of entaglement is so obvious that virtually nobody would ever do it?

The bit about being obvious. But then not everyone is a super sailor and beginners make mistakes. It's how we learn.

I've taught a friend to maneuver his Princess 47 with bow and stern thrusters and now he's really confident to take the boat out with his family.

Same on a Hanse 44 belonging to another friend. The windage on these boats is impressive and the thruster very useful. I've been on a number of other boats with them and see no reason not to employ them when appropriate. Where something could get sucked in is clearly inappropriate!

On a formal traing course, as you would expect, use of the bow thruster is taught and also what to do if its broken.

An unusual fault that I discovered on a Sunseeker 65 is that the control contacts can 'weld' on so you can't turn the thing off without pulling the positive lead off the battery bank. Which gives some interesting sparky flashy.

But generally, I think bowthrusters are a very useful tool.

 

[Hermit]

I have a bow thruster and it is very useful. It helps for a number of reasons but mainly because the gap betwixt rudder and prop on my boat is huge and she has the turning circle similar to many of the ships I have moored and unmoored.

And, in contrast to those who say they are no good when moving too fast through the water, when making a sternboard, the bowthruster makes a very effective 'rudder' and allows pinpoint control such that I often find coming alongside astern is easier than ahead.

But, each to their own, and perhaps, if you haven't regularly used one you should maybe give it a go.

 

[ylop]

The bit about being obvious. But then not everyone is a super sailor and beginners make mistakes. It's how we learn.

On a formal traing course, as you would expect, use of the bow thruster is taught and also what to do if its broken.

But generally, I think bowthrusters are a very useful tool.

I may be wrong - but I don't think dunedin was belittling bow thrusters, rather highlighting a potential way to misuse them which might ruin your day, be expensive, give the RNLI some exercise, and damage public moorings, having seen two people using them inappropriately in the same week? I've never had any instruction on a boat with thrusters and don't recall them being discussed, but was happily handed the keys of a charter boat with thrusters without so much as a second thought. Perhaps there's a learning point for charter companies, those selling new boats with fancy kit and instructors on how you impart knowledge about the fancier new tools. Certainly for those who only sail infrequently there's a lot of obvious mistakes you can make every time you come back to it!

 

[ashtead]

Clearly a big difference between electric and hydraulic thrusters imho . A standardse thruster on your average Bav 36 or suchlike even is fairly weak and will struggle to turn in any real wind We have one at 41 and it’s useful in the berth and to turn bow as you back out as speed is low . We do use it to help a slow turn into fairway mainly so the boat speed is slower .Just in case it’s not clear the drop down version pop up if you don’t touch the turntable bottom regularly so you have to beware not to forget otherwise it auto retracts . If buying any boat plus 40 ft I would specify I think as part of requirements but I have no experience of island packets but they always seem to need one whatever size .

 

[dunedin]

I may be wrong - but I don't think dunedin was belittling bow thrusters, rather highlighting a potential way to misuse them which might ruin your day, be expensive, give the RNLI some exercise, and damage public moorings, having seen two people using them inappropriately in the same week? ….

Spot on!
I love my retractable bow thruster for assisting tight marina berthing in days like today when wind is up.
Just not the tool for around mooring pick ups.

 

[Martin&Rene]

A couple of weeks ago up the west coat of Scotland, I saw the Secretary of the Mooring Organisation suck his pick up line into the bow thruster, when leaving the mooring. You think he would know better. Luckily, where he was he had the ability to dry out between tides and sort it out in a few minutes.

 

[nburrell]

The bit about being obvious. But then not everyone is a super sailor and beginners make mistakes. It's how we learn.

I've taught a friend to maneuver his Princess 47 with bow and stern thrusters and now he's really confident to take the boat out with his family.

Same on a Hanse 44 belonging to another friend. The windage on these boats is impressive and the thruster very useful. I've been on a number of other boats with them and see no reason not to employ them when appropriate. Where something could get sucked in is clearly inappropriate!

On a formal traing course, as you would expect, use of the bow thruster is taught and also what to do if its broken.

An unusual fault that I discovered on a Sunseeker 65 is that the control contacts can 'weld' on so you can't turn the thing off without pulling the positive lead off the battery bank. Which gives some interesting sparky flashy.

But generally, I think bowthrusters are a very useful tool.

Very odd regarding the Sunseeker thruster control - would expect there to be breakers on the switch panel for the thrusters, shouldn't need to mess about disconnecting the battery.

 

[capnsensible]

Very odd regarding the Sunseeker thruster control - would expect there to be breakers on the switch panel for the thrusters, shouldn't need to mess about disconnecting the battery.

Not as surprised as I was.....

 

[dunedin]

A couple of weeks ago up the west coat of Scotland, I saw the Secretary of the Mooring Organisation suck his pick up line into the bow thruster, when leaving the mooring. You think he would know better. Luckily, where he was he had the ability to dry out between tides and sort it out in a few minutes.

But WHY do people do this when leaving a mooring? A touch of reverse will clear the buoy if not enough wind to do the job by waiting 10 seconds.

 

[srm]

But WHY do people do this when leaving a mooring? A touch of reverse will clear the buoy if not enough wind to do the job by waiting 10 seconds.

Possibly the same lack of thought process/environmental awareness as two candidates I was coaching for the German YM qualification. Leaving a hammerhead with lots of clear water around they were about to set up a spring on a slip to get the boat off. I asked what would happen if the lines were let go and looked up at the windex. After a bit of thought, "We would blow off?". "So why use a spring?".

 

[ProMariner]

But WHY do people do this when leaving a mooring? A touch of reverse will clear the buoy if not enough wind to do the job by waiting 10 seconds.

If you give a guy a button, he will invariably press it, at every given opportunity, at least until he gets bored, or until he gets a newer shinier button. It's a power thing, I guess. It's the same guy who went in and out of gear 17 or 18 times per manoeuvre 20 years ago, and then couldn't go 3 seconds without consulting / adjusting his helm station chart plotter 10 years ago.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

If you give a guy a button, he will invariably press it, at every given opportunity, at least until he gets bored, or until he gets a newer shinier button. It's a power thing, I guess. It's the same guy who went in and out of gear 17 or 18 times per manoeuvre 20 years ago, and then couldn't go 3 seconds without consulting / adjusting his helm station chart plotter 10 years ago.

This must be why the nuclear button isn’t a button at all.

 

[Poignard]

'Woss this button 'ere for?' [49 seconds]

 

[trapper guy]

Recently there was an RNLI callout near here to a power boat that had managed to entangle its bow thruster in the mooring pickup rope when departing a mooring.
I had assumed that people wouldn’t be mad enough to use a bow thruster when either picking up or departing a mooring buoy that has a pick up rope. Clearly it is almost perfectly designed to suck in the rope. Surely this was just an isolated case.

Yet today in exactly the same location a sailing yacht came in - rather than head downwind, then turn upwind towards the buoy it zig zagged around for ages using the bow thruster close to 3 separate moorings before finally succeeding in getting close enough to pick one up - fortunately via the boathook, miraculously failing to snag the rope in the thruster. Bizarrely even after hooking the loop on a cleat, they continue to bow thrust side to side for 5 minutes or so, seeming to think the boat wasn’t angled correctly - rather than letting the wind gently settle the boat.

Fortunately they are downwind of us. Never seen this before in Scotland. Is this common (mal-) practice elsewhere?

im failing to understand why the rnli was called out?

if he was on a mooring buoy, then he wasnt in the middle of the channel or irish sea or anything, and the boat wasnt sinking?

 

[Stemar]

im failing to understand why the rnli was called out?

if he was on a mooring buoy, then he wasnt in the middle of the channel or irish sea or anything, and the boat wasnt sinking?

If I'm attached to a mooring and can't get off, a call for assistance seems entirely appropriate. Not a mayday, probably not even a pan pan, but a call that I need help. If the coastguard choses to send a lifeboat, that's their decision; it's all good training. I like to think I'd be able to deal with this particular incident myself, but I've a few years experience afloat, and I'm reasonably practical. An inexperienced, impractical crew might have no idea what to do. Should they even be out there? Well, that's a question for another thread.

A couple of other thoughts:

In bad conditions, picking up a mooring astern makes sense if your bow blows off before you can get attached. It's a technique I've used several times.

Bowthruster bad? I've never had one, but there have been times when wind and tide conspired against me to the point that I was unable to get my Snapdragon off the club pontoon safely. If someone had offered me one, I'd have fitted it and used it. That on a 24 footer. I'd put it in the huge set of "good servant, bad master" items.

 

[B27]

im failing to understand why the rnli was called out?

if he was on a mooring buoy, then he wasnt in the middle of the channel or irish sea or anything, and the boat wasnt sinking?

You're failing to understand how the RNLI gets 'called out'.

What generally happens is, coastguard becomes aware of a problem.
This may be because the skipper of a boat with a problem calls them up, or any other route.

The coastguard then decides to ask the RNLI if they are willing and able to assist.
Generally the RNLI are very willing and very able.

It's possible the coastguard was not involved, the RNLI may have simply been in the area and become aware of the issue.

The RNLI publicity machine then gets fired up.

 

[trapper guy]

You're failing to understand how the RNLI gets 'called out'.

What generally happens is, coastguard becomes aware of a problem.
This may be because the skipper of a boat with a problem calls them up, or any other route.

The coastguard then decides to ask the RNLI if they are willing and able to assist.
Generally the RNLI are very willing and very able.

It's possible the coastguard was not involved, the RNLI may have simply been in the area and become aware of the issue.

The RNLI publicity machine then gets fired up.

i dont recall saying 'how', i recall saying 'why', in fact it shows that i asked 'why' in your quotation of my post.
i know HOW the RNLI gets called out.

i just question why as the RNLI is a volunteer service of men and women that put their lives at risk on a daily basis.
picturing some asshat calling them out cos of their stupidity in getting a mooring line in their bow thruster makes my blood boil.

 

[srm]

i just question why as the RNLI is a volunteer service of men and women that put their lives at risk on a daily basis.
picturing some asshat calling them out cos of their stupidity in getting a mooring line in their bow thruster makes my blood boil.

We do not know all the facts.

I used to know a guy who would frequently take his smallish yacht out for a motor in fine weather. One day I suggested he should use the sails (I knew he used to sail a lot). He replied that he was not allowed to as he had a heart pacemaker. Wished I had kept my opinion to myself.