Bow thrusters and mooring buoys

mjcoon

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We do not know all the facts.

I used to know a guy who would frequently take his smallish yacht out for a motor in fine weather. One day I suggested he should use the sails (I knew he used to sail a lot). He replied that he was not allowed to as he had a heart pacemaker. Wished I had kept my opinion to myself.
My pacemaker is about half way through its battery life. No suggestion I should not go on my annual Mediterranean sailing holiday, and travel insurance is not cheap but still affordable. It doesn't seem to effect compass readings, either...
 

trapper guy

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We do not know all the facts.

I used to know a guy who would frequently take his smallish yacht out for a motor in fine weather. One day I suggested he should use the sails (I knew he used to sail a lot). He replied that he was not allowed to as he had a heart pacemaker. Wished I had kept my opinion to myself.
unlike yourself im happy to air my opinion, and dont regret it one iota.
it stands as is.
 

Chiara’s slave

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The RNLI in my experience are a bunch of testosterone filled lads desperate for a call out. Give them the smallest excuse and they’ll be on their way. And all of it makes them better at dealing with more serious emergencies. Luckily that’s never happened to me, but I do know most of our local crew quite well. Keen does not begin to cover it.
 

Poignard

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We do not know all the facts.

I used to know a guy who would frequently take his smallish yacht out for a motor in fine weather. One day I suggested he should use the sails (I knew he used to sail a lot). He replied that he was not allowed to as he had a heart pacemaker. Wished I had kept my opinion to myself.
Not allowed by whom?

My wife (whom God preserve) is well into her eighties and has had a pacemaker for a very long time, in fact she is on her second.

She was sailing in our Twister less than two months ago with no ill effects.

Nobody ever told her she shouldn't sail.

God help anyone who dared!
 

trapper guy

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Not allowed by whom?

My wife (whom God preserve) is well into her eighties and has had a pacemaker for a very long time, in fact she is on her second.

She was sailing in our Twister less than two months ago with no ill effects.

Nobody ever told her she shouldn't sail.

God help anyone who dared!
sounds like my mother, rest her soul.
nobody ever told my mother what to or not to do :D
she was a force to be reckoned with! though i doubt i would have ever got her on a boat, she was a taurus, very much a land animal.
you cant dig your heels into water! :D
 

B27

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i dont recall saying 'how', i recall saying 'why', in fact it shows that i asked 'why' in your quotation of my post.
i know HOW the RNLI gets called out.

i just question why as the RNLI is a volunteer service of men and women that put their lives at risk on a daily basis.
picturing some asshat calling them out cos of their stupidity in getting a mooring line in their bow thruster makes my blood boil.
You're failing to take on board that it's not the unfortunate skipper who is 'calling them out'.

The RNLI don't generally take calls direct from the public.
999 gets you the coastguard.
Ch 16 gets you the coastguard.

I have no issue with anyone calling the coastguard if they have a problem.
In some harbours it would be more appropriate to call the Harbour Master, and the CG might well direct them there.
But sometimes you can't get a response from a harbour master even when you're trying to pay them.

In my opinion, based on not having been there and probably not knowing the whole story, the skipper was right to ask for help rather than get in bigger trouble by going in the water. And the asshat is you. Don't expect much sympathy if you get a pot line around your prop.
 

h20man

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I remember watching a chap in a big new boat with bow thruster heading into a slip, not slowly.. when suddenly curses were flying and screaming... The prop for the bow thruster had fallen off. Missed his slip and but did not miss the a boat in the neighbouring slip.

I am always afraid that the things I rely on shall fail at the worst moment.
 

dunedin

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im failing to understand why the rnli was called out?

if he was on a mooring buoy, then he wasnt in the middle of the channel or irish sea or anything, and the boat wasnt sinking?
I suspect you weren't there and don't know the facts.
As others have said it is the Coastguard and not the casualty that decides whether to send a lifeboat.
Also, whilst I think the skipper made a stupid mistake to use the bow thruster to depart a mooring (as would suck in the rope), we all make mistakes.
Once done the SOLO skipper had a real issue. Temporarily trapped by a rope round the bow thruster.
If you knew the location you would realised there was likely a rock breakwater and rocky islands close by.
The solo skipper couldn't reach to cut the rope (even the RNLI had to put somebody into the water to do so.
The boat was not secure, if the wind rose (pretty common at the moment) the rope could easily break off a chunk of bow thruster. If happened suddenly boat could go ashore - or potentially rip chunk out of thruster leading to devastating leak.
Fortunately, unlike most of Scotland, a lifeboat station was close by and got the boat released and escorted to a marina for checks / lift.
 

dunedin

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The RNLI in my experience are a bunch of testosterone filled lads desperate for a call out. ...
Not sure I recognise that statement. I believe the crew in question are an experienced bunch of men and women, the ones I know being very calm and mature. They also have day jobs and families that they need to leave, but prefer to attend and do a simple rescue than search for casualties later
 

srm

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The RNLI in my experience are a bunch of testosterone filled lads desperate for a call out. Give them the smallest excuse and they’ll be on their way. And all of it makes them better at dealing with more serious emergencies. Luckily that’s never happened to me, but I do know most of our local crew quite well. Keen does not begin to cover it.
Not my experience. Our Lifeboat was an all weather boat, an Arun, then a Severn, perhaps yours is different. Two of the crew were colleagues and both had Fishing Class1 tickets and MN deck officer qualifications. At least one other crew member was a MN Master. Most of the crew were beyond an age to be called "lads" and I think all had worked at sea. Keen, yes, and professional.
 

srm

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@Poignard and @mjcoon.
No offence intended. I was simply quoting what I was told as an example of not knowing the full background to a person's actions. Perhaps his medical condition was different to those of your experience, he died a few months later.
 

Poignard

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@Poignard and @mjcoon.
No offence intended. I was simply quoting what I was told as an example of not knowing the full background to a person's actions. Perhaps his medical condition was different to those of your experience, he died a few months later.
Absolutely no offence taken by me at all.

It's just that I don't want The Old Guvnor looking over my shoulder at posts here and getting the idea she shouldn't be exerting herself! :ROFLMAO:
 

Boathook

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The RNLI in my experience are a bunch of testosterone filled lads desperate for a call out. Give them the smallest excuse and they’ll be on their way. And all of it makes them better at dealing with more serious emergencies. Luckily that’s never happened to me, but I do know most of our local crew quite well. Keen does not begin to cover it.
I've come to the same conclusion having spoken to a few RNLI crew. They all say "if in doubt call them out".
Actually being called out for a job rather than training is much better.
 

mjcoon

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@Poignard and @mjcoon.
No offence intended. I was simply quoting what I was told as an example of not knowing the full background to a person's actions. Perhaps his medical condition was different to those of your experience, he died a few months later.
There are at least two sorts of pacemaker. When I told DVLA about mine I then had to convince them it was the less-problematic one which does not deliver defibrillation...
 
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Chiara’s slave

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Not sure I recognise that statement. I believe the crew in question are an experienced bunch of men and women, the ones I know being very calm and mature. They also have day jobs and families that they need to leave, but prefer to attend and do a simple rescue than search for casualties later

Not my experience. Our Lifeboat was an all weather boat, an Arun, then a Severn, perhaps yours is different. Two of the crew were colleagues and both had Fishing Class1 tickets and MN deck officer qualifications. At least one other crew member was a MN Master. Most of the crew were beyond an age to be called "lads" and I think all had worked at sea. Keen, yes, and professional.
There is a woman on the crew. Vastly experienced, about 55, and just as up for a callout as the 30 year olds. Being as keen as mustard to get to sea is the point. Not that somehow I’m saying they lack any other quality they might need.
 
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ylop

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i dont recall saying 'how', i recall saying 'why', in fact it shows that i asked 'why' in your quotation of my post.
i know HOW the RNLI gets called out.
Ironically in the local vernacular where they incident took place How and Why are used interchangably! But why? Well because he told Belfast CG he had screwed up, and in response they asked the lifeboat launch authority if the lifeboat could help and they said yes - so at least two people who are tasked with making the decision on what resources to deploy thought this was a legitimate “shout”.

One of the reasons they like to be called out early is to avoid incidents spiralling. The skipper is singlehanded (we’ve no idea of age or fitness) and the LB crew had to put someone in the water to sort it so presumably his option was to enter the water himself with a sharp knife. I assume he could have lassoed the bouy or secured the boat whilst in the water. He has to get back out and back on board. He has to get warm and dry again. He has to not be washed away from the boat. There’s a lot things which can go wrong there, and then the wise-after-the-events would be saying should have called for help rather than trying to sort himself! Usually before the CG inconvenience the RNLI they do see if there are any local boats who can help. In my experience local dive clubs etc are usually quite helpful - ironically sailing club rescue boats seem not to monitor 16 so much and will miss the PanPan.
i just question why as the RNLI is a volunteer service of men and women that put their lives at risk on a daily basis.
picturing some asshat calling them out cos of their stupidity in getting a mooring line in their bow thruster makes my blood boil.
Probably at least half of that lifeboat stations call outs would frustrate you even more, but what seem like stupid call outs are good training, generate positive publicity and add to the stations statistics (there’s no risk that station will close down because they are too quiet). The men and women involved enjoy helping people out. They don’t see it as a waste of time; they’d rather help 50 people without judgement than be called out once the following morning to search for their body.

The RNLI in my experience are a bunch of testosterone filled lads desperate for a call out. Give them the smallest excuse and they’ll be on their way. And all of it makes them better at dealing with more serious emergencies. Luckily that’s never happened to me, but I do know most of our local crew quite well. Keen does not begin to cover it.
Probably a clumsy turn of phrase - but if you are the sort of person who will bemoan being called out for something trivial then probably being an RNLI volunteer is not for you. Its like seeing someone in your street with a flat battery on their car - you can say should have joined the AA of you can give them a push/jump start. The latter is actually quite rewarding even if it disrupts your day slightly.

In some harbours it would be more appropriate to call the Harbour Master, and the CG might well direct them there.
But sometimes you can't get a response from a harbour master even when you're trying to pay them.
There is no HM in this location. It certainly might have been possible to be creative and and try to get commercial help from a dive company, or one of the “marine services” (mooring contractors, towing etc) companies - obviously at a significant cost, but this isn’t the solent where you have SeaStart etc (and would they go in the water?). I’ll bet just getting hold of someone at the local authority (who own the mooring) to tell them there is a problem is a strictly M-F 9-5 task and even then it’s probably office jockey who has no idea what a bow thruster is!
 

trapper guy

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Ironically in the local vernacular where they incident took place How and Why are used interchangably! But why? Well because he told Belfast CG he had screwed up, and in response they asked the lifeboat launch authority if the lifeboat could help and they said yes - so at least two people who are tasked with making the decision on what resources to deploy thought this was a legitimate “shout”.

One of the reasons they like to be called out early is to avoid incidents spiralling. The skipper is singlehanded (we’ve no idea of age or fitness) and the LB crew had to put someone in the water to sort it so presumably his option was to enter the water himself with a sharp knife. I assume he could have lassoed the bouy or secured the boat whilst in the water. He has to get back out and back on board. He has to get warm and dry again. He has to not be washed away from the boat. There’s a lot things which can go wrong there, and then the wise-after-the-events would be saying should have called for help rather than trying to sort himself! Usually before the CG inconvenience the RNLI they do see if there are any local boats who can help. In my experience local dive clubs etc are usually quite helpful - ironically sailing club rescue boats seem not to monitor 16 so much and will miss the PanPan.

Probably at least half of that lifeboat stations call outs would frustrate you even more, but what seem like stupid call outs are good training, generate positive publicity and add to the stations statistics (there’s no risk that station will close down because they are too quiet). The men and women involved enjoy helping people out. They don’t see it as a waste of time; they’d rather help 50 people without judgement than be called out once the following morning to search for their body.


Probably a clumsy turn of phrase - but if you are the sort of person who will bemoan being called out for something trivial then probably being an RNLI volunteer is not for you. Its like seeing someone in your street with a flat battery on their car - you can say should have joined the AA of you can give them a push/jump start. The latter is actually quite rewarding even if it disrupts your day slightly.


There is no HM in this location. It certainly might have been possible to be creative and and try to get commercial help from a dive company, or one of the “marine services” (mooring contractors, towing etc) companies - obviously at a significant cost, but this isn’t the solent where you have SeaStart etc (and would they go in the water?). I’ll bet just getting hold of someone at the local authority (who own the mooring) to tell them there is a problem is a strictly M-F 9-5 task and even then it’s probably office jockey who has no idea what a bow thruster is!
i can confirm that sea start wont go in the water, i called them once due to my prop getting tangled in some drifting rope in poole harbour, i called the HM who had no F's to give to be quite frank, and suggested i call sea start, who then quoted me £250 for the callout as i wasnt a paid up member, but who then rang me back later to say they would be unable to assist.
fortunately my boat is a bilge keel, i just had to wait for the tide to go out and untangled it myself
 

B27

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.... - ironically sailing club rescue boats seem not to monitor 16 so much and will miss the PanPan.
.....
Sailing Clubs generally operate on M1, because they are working with a shore station which is only licensed to use that.
Most will be using non-DSC handhelds in Safety Boats.
You don't want Ch16 chatter from having your radio on Dual Watch, when you're in the middle of a start sequence.
Often a waste of time calling a RIB that's doing more than 10 knots or so anyway, they won't hear.

You could try the club's whatsapp group......
 

NormanS

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I don't have a bow thruster, and have little experience of using them, but surely it wouldn't be difficult when installing, to include a removable mesh at each end of the tunnel. Something to stop ropes or anything else being sucked in.
 
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