Bow Thruster Control Circuitry

[sailoncj]

Having recently been involved in attempting to recover a water-damaged control Printed Circuit Board for a Volvo Penta QL BP600 Bow Thruster, I'm surprised at its relative complexity? (..1 integrated circuit; 6 transistors; 2 relays; numerous diodes and many other discrete components).
I would be grateful for any expert comment on why a simple left/right joystick command to a reversible, albeit powerful, 12vdc motor needs a control circuit of this type?
More importantly, I would be very grateful to hear from anyone who has a circuit diagram for the PCB or knows of anyone with a diagnostic/repair capability for it.
Many thanks

 

[vas]

sorry, just noticed this thread.

I have a QLsomething (5KW 24V motor twin propeller thing)
Haven't noticed a PCB, where is it, around the relays area as there's nothing on the actual joystick end!
not helpful I know, but at least you're up at the top of the forum


V.

 

[jfm]

It's very hard to reverse engineer a PCB without a photo but I'd guess there is a timer circuit in there so that if you are running the motor one way then quickly flip the joystick the other way it introduces a second or two of delay.

If this is your own boat, and you're careful, and want to save money, you could dispense with the time delay functionality and just switch the motor with a pair of relays. Usual disclaimers apply!

If you can see a shunt anywhere then parts of the board might also measure current and do something (I dunno what) with that data. Again, if you're careful and happy to take the risk, you could just jettison all that functionality

 

[rafiki_]

Does the PCB introduce some degree of proportionality to the control? Ie not just an on/off, but some control to build up of motor speed? Is this strictly necessary? Not really. But can be "nice to have".

 

[jfm]

Does the PCB introduce some degree of proportionality to the control? Ie not just an on/off, but some control to build up of motor speed? Is this strictly necessary? Not really. But can be "nice to have".

From the components described it can't rafiki. The joystick is a switch not potentiometer, and the motor is DC but there is no heavy duty power management gear on the board, as described. Furthermore there is no logical reason to engineer this in, with a small DC thruster (unless you're going the whole variable speed hog, as Sleipner/Side Power do)

 

[rafiki_]

From the components described it can't rafiki. The joystick is a switch not potentiometer, and the motor is DC but there is no heavy duty power management gear on the board, as described. Furthermore there is no logical reason to engineer this in, with a small DC thruster (unless you're going the whole variable speed hog, as Sleipner/Side Power do)

Sure, it is a bit of a leap, given the list of bits on the pcb, but I'm struggling to work out why this degree of complexity without control? Can you?

 

[sailoncj]

Thanks vas/jfm/rafiki for your interest: The 4" x 2" PCB is housed in a moulded black plastic top-hat - On boat in question, its parked between thruster battery and Isolator SW panel, in bilge at foot of bed in for'd cabin (..not the cleverest installation design I hear you say? not least having shower cubicle located adjacent).
The thruster is a BP600: theres an Installation Manual for the Volvo Penta(QL) BP Series thrusters available on-line (Publ. No. 7741095-9 12-2001) with wiring diagrams should anybody be interested - unfortunately theres no circuit diagram/parts list.
On the up side, I've made a bit of progress with the assistance of some very helpful folk at VP(QL) who have supplied a more detailed wiring diagram and a v/useful fault-finding test sheet - On the down side they say theres no cct diagram/parts list available (Interestingly jfm, the test sheet makes reference to a 2sec delay - so I quess, with two relay driver channels; a delay cct; some voltage stabilisation and probably, some interference protection, it starts to account for some of the component count - though I concur jfm, that if push comes to shove, you could get by with due care and a PCB by-pass lash-up.
Anyway, if anyone is still interested in any of the above I'd be happy to supply photos, fault-finding test sheet, etc.
Cheers All and thanks again

 

[Talulah]

The controller introduces a 2 second delay switching between port/starboard. This is so you don't wreck the motor/gearbox by instantly switching directions.
The controller also introduces a timer. (10 mins.) This is so you don't leave the thing on and accidentally operate it.
Other than that it does nothing fancy. You can get rid of it completey if you wish because ultimately it is just connects 3 wires at the thruster end. A common in the middle that is connected to one of the other two wires. Which one depends upon port/starboard. The other wiring is just to power up the controller board.
We don't have a controller. Just two foot switches. One mounted either side of the Binnacle.
View attachment 35380

 

[sailoncj]

Bow Thruster Control Circuitry (cont'd)

The controller introduces a 2 second delay switching between port/starboard. This is so you don't wreck the motor/gearbox by instantly switching directions.
The controller also introduces a timer. (10 mins.) This is so you don't leave the thing on and accidentally operate it.
Other than that it does nothing fancy. You can get rid of it completey if you wish because ultimately it is just connects 3 wires at the thruster end. A common in the middle that is connected to one of the other two wires. Which one depends upon port/starboard. The other wiring is just to power up the controller board.
We don't have a controller. Just two foot switches. One mounted either side of the Binnacle.
View attachment 35380

Thanks for that Talulah - tres interesting/informative.

 

[gary345678910]

Hi, I also have a 5KW QL bowthruster that had suffered from water damage (mine is 24v). I managed to get the motor reconditioned but I still have the control box and relays etc to sort out. What I can't understand is why can't I plug in any 24v controller but they don't seem to be readily available on line.

What did you do about yours in the end? I'd be grateful if you could email me the documents you manage to track down, when I searched for that reference the only result was your post!

All help, advice or just info on experiences would be much appreciated.

 

[aquapower]

Hi, I also have a 5KW QL bowthruster that had suffered from water damage (mine is 24v). I managed to get the motor reconditioned but I still have the control box and relays etc to sort out. What I can't understand is why can't I plug in any 24v controller but they don't seem to be readily available on line.

What did you do about yours in the end? I'd be grateful if you could email me the documents you manage to track down, when I searched for that reference the only result was your post!

All help, advice or just info on experiences would be much appreciated.

I have modified in the past using the Vetus delay box, very easy to do and much more reliable.


http://www.vetus-shop.com/vetus-time-delay-unit-for-24-volt-bow-thruster-panels-p-845.html


You can also get the relays from Albright for good price


http://www.albrightinternational.com/lang/en/index.html

 

[sailoncj]

Hi,
If you are still looking for information, please feel free to call on 0796 727 8310 to discuss.
Kind regards,
sailoncj

Hi, I also have a 5KW QL bowthruster that had suffered from water damage (mine is 24v). I managed to get the motor reconditioned but I still have the control box and relays etc to sort out. What I can't understand is why can't I plug in any 24v controller but they don't seem to be readily available on line.

What did you do about yours in the end? I'd be grateful if you could email me the documents you manage to track down, when I searched for that reference the only result was your post!

All help, advice or just info on experiences would be much appreciated.

 

[Boatbore]

I'm a bit late to this one, but I have just had a problem that is related to this. I have discovered that the old Vetus bow thuster joystick units (square unit, black rubberised joystick and with a big green on/off switch that lights up when on) does not have a timer unit built in...... but the new version does..... and as a result the 2 cannot be operated on the same circuit. Someone used the term potentiometer at some point, but I think that is just the timer thingummy.

My solution is to either find another obsolete unit, try and repair the old broken one, or replace both flybridge and lower helm units with new vetus switches and cut out the timer at the actual thruster (I can see it dangling to the side - just out of reach of anyone but an orangutan !).

 

[kashurst]

I have recently removed the electronic control module from my Max Power thrusters as they have been a total pain in the ****. They require you to press and hold a button down and hold the joystick over to the right to enable them. After 10 mins they turn off again - guaranteed just when you need them to work. What made me rip the electronics out though was they developed a habit of switching themselves on and off which was quite scary on occaision. Again poor design and construction of the electronic modules. I am an electronic engineer and have designed quite a few things over the years for aircraft, industry, homes etc and I find a lot of the new electronic controls overly fussy in function but more importantly not constructed to be reliable in the marine environment. Some boat electronic design I wouldn't use inside a house let alone a boat. I would rather the device was simpler and designed to last than have unneccesary bells and beeps. What also doesn't help is the boat manufactures using equally inferior electrical connections within the boats and mixing contact materials which exacerbates corrosion issues and electrical reliability. Anyway rant over. - I used two relays to operate the thruster, wired so that only one joystick can control the thruster at any time - otherwise on a flybridge boat you could get a big bang. I also included a thermal cut out - just in case something gets stuck. I didn't create a delay in switching direction though. As JFM points out there is a risk to the gearbox if someone decides to switch direction rapidly back and forth, but I can live with that as a trade for better reliabilty and instantaneous response.

 

[dave5559]

I have a Volvo ql bp600 thruster fitted to my boat The gearbox has been very noisy for a long time when used to go to starboard but quiet when going to port. I assume its the gear box. Today the thruster gave up I can hear the motor turning but no thrust I assume there is some kind of coupling which has given up. That being said and as you cant get spare parts its time to change But will existing wiring and controls from the Volvo unit work say a Sidepower or Vetus

 

[Cardo]

Apologies for resurrecting this old thread, however we're in the process of selling our boat and the blasted QL BP600 bow thruster has picked now to pack up. We've tracked the issue down to the circuit board, and to my dismay it looks like there's no readily available replacements.

I'd be grateful to heae the best place to bypass this, or whether there is a suitable replacement part.

Thanks.

 

[Plum]

Apologies for resurrecting this old thread, however we're in the process of selling our boat and the blasted QL BP600 bow thruster has picked now to pack up. We've tracked the issue down to the circuit board, and to my dismay it looks like there's no readily available replacements.

I'd be grateful to heae the best place to bypass this, or whether there is a suitable replacement part.

Thanks.

Interesting. I have the BP450 model, which i beleive has the same circuit board and so far is working ok but am aware they are no longer made. As far as i can see the circuit board only provides the delay between reversing direction so could be bypassed as long as you are careful to wait a few seconds before changing direction. I have the wiring diagram if you pm me.

I have been told that these wireless remotes https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-100f...m=382292089810&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851 work well for anchor winches but are less good for bow thrusters because there is a short delay before they activate!!! May be just what you need?

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[ecardona321]

I have modified in the past using the Vetus delay box, very easy to do and much more reliable.


Vetus Time delay unit for 24 Volt bow thruster panels (Vetus BPTD24)


You can also get the relays from Albright for good price


http://www.albrightinternational.com/lang/en/index.html

New to this "Community" thanks to this great topic, Based on this Aquapower post I went ahead and got the ventus box but not being electrical jobs my forte I really appreciate if you can share the connection scheme using this Vetus Delay Box on my QL 1300 stern thruster.
Sunseeker Predator 56

Thanl you in advance & "Hola" from Miami!

 

[Mpozesky]

Hello. I found this forum after lots of frustration trying to fix my 12V BP800. It was in water also and got wet and something started soaking on the circuit control board and my battery ran dry/ Anyway, I need to get the motor rebuilt and do something about the control circuity. I would like to get more info about bypassing it and installing the vetus delay. Can anyone please help me specifics about installing the delay device?? I can be reached here or at "imbtr@yahoo.com"".

 

[spannerman]

The relay not only gives a delay on reversing direction but both the Vetus and Side Power relay has an overheat sensor in the top of the motor which shuts down the system if the motor gets too hot. I have replaced two this year on bow props which had stopped working, its the yellow wire from the Vetus relay and brown wire on SP that go to the sensor.