Bought a Never splashed Colvic Countess 33 on eBay, Looking for infos

[GregOddity]

Good that you inspected each rivet and there is no stress visible, you should hopefully be ok, take a straight edge and lay it length ways along the mast accross that joint to check its flat before you chop anything off, if the joint is not flat you could at least completely remake the joint as you have an excess of length. The spliced joints can hide internal corrosion.

I am thinking of using an inspection camera to check the inside. I’m just curious to see if there are any signs of corrosion. I did check with a flat bit of aluminium and it was straight. It’s however still in my plans to check it again and make sure it’s all as it should be.

 

[GregOddity]

Greg, I hope I am not teaching you to suck eggs but a weld dye testing kit might be useful to check the mast.
Flawtek Weld Crack Flaw Detection - Complete 3 Part Kit | eBay

If your halyards are internal and not exiting via the mast foot, it might be better to change it to a mast foot with halyard exits already there.
Mast feet & heel : Seldén Mast AB

Not at all. It’s quite a good idea and I got some at my workshop. There are a few areas where I may actually test to see if I find any signs of stress or cracks.

On the base, my thoughts are still all over the place. I’m yet to form an opinion and a plan.

 

[GregOddity]

That would normally fit into a cast socket on deck and the halyards etc would come out of the mast higher up. If lines are led aft then a stainless plate to shackle blocks can sit around the base, although other arrangements are more common as you can see in the Selden link Concerto has posted. I don't know if any of the current stuff is compatible with the old Kemp section, but you are really only going to find out if you talk to Selden or one of the big rigging outfits like Allspars.

Did not manage to call Selden yet. was too busy trying to find fuel... and failed. Got my outboard tank on the car just to make sure i don't have to abandon the thing on the side of the road. But it will be done tomorrow.

 

[GregOddity]

I too learned from the COA that a bit more canvas would be beneficial. I contacted Ian Anderson who agreed the mast could be longer.

I opted for a 14 metre mast. Ian suggested increasing the ballast to compensate which I did.

The Countess 33 is very stiff!

I have double spreaders and the chain plates are through bolted to the bulkheads for almost a metre. The spreaders are not swept.

I also went for a longer boom. That was to save my neck when standing at the helm.

As a paranoid, I fitted twin forestays and twin backstay. I do like redundancy except when it happened to me.

The mast support pillar specified by IA looked a bit like a piece of gas pipe. Mine is 120X 100 stainless box. ( It came free from the chicken processors across the business park). It is over the top!

When you come to windows, I have proved that glass does bend (aft cabin).

My mast sits in a shallow socket.

Not to say it is the best arrangement but my two penworth.

I was talking to a Rigger today and now after reading I made up my mind and we’re going with the 14m and straight double spreaders and a small bowsprit so we can have a jib as well. I do like strong and redundant.

Ian Designed a great boat that can take a good beating It just feels underpowered on the sails, that’s what I notice on the ones I sailed. I’ve only sailed 2 Countess 33 so far and they both had a 12m mast.

Yeah, on the mast pillar I’m going to go overkill as well. I like strong and a few kilos more bellow decks will only balance the extra mast height.

On the mast base, I’m still at the stage of trying to understand what available options we have, costs and benefits.

 

[GregOddity]

Having a bigger than standard rig is not allways a good thing. Only really benificial in the lightest of winds. Your have to reec early. More money for rigging and canvas and your boats balance will be wrong. I do recall she was a ketch though so that adds anofher dimension to the boats CofE and such like.
Steveeasy

The Countess 33 was designed with the two rigs in mind, the ketch and the sloop. There are detailed plans for both and sail plans etc.

Yes, extending the mast will alter slightly some of the parameters but nothing that cannot be compensated through ballast. I do intend to have 2 pretty big water tanks that can take that function and add between 400kg to 500 kg to the boat over the keel. On the other hand, I’m familiar with race boats and they use water tanks to compensate for ballast. A fast electrical pump and raw water can fix a lean in no time.

 

[GregOddity]

So the only good news of the day is that I found a new set of Selden double of spreaders for the mast that a friendly rigger offered since they were taking up too much space on his workshop.

Still need to fabricate the connections to the mast and perhaps the ends because £75x4 is the budget for the engine


Today was spent looking at double Spreader masts in Haslar Marina, after a small “emergency “job with an oven. (Stop sniggering)

Basically, I never paid much attention to double chainplates. It was interesting to actually see the different types of chainplates used.

Of course, it’s all dependant of the rigging and how it will be done etc. More to learn on that.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Yeah, on the mast pillar I’m going to go overkill as well. I like strong and a few kilos more bellow decks will only balance the extra mast height.

Nope! Standing in the empty hull, any mass above knee height would like to capsize you.

After all, you're going for spacecraft tech for the bulkheads, why do steamroller for the mast post?

 

[GregOddity]

Nope! Standing in the empty hull, any mass above knee height would like to capsize you.

After all, you're going for spacecraft tech for the bulkheads, why do steamroller for the mast post?

Good point! However,… I’m going for modern tech because it’s easy, cost effective and lasts longer than “traditional “expensive and not very long lasting. The problem with moisture absorption on cheap marine ply is something that became prevalent with the Chinese introduction on the market. On the other hand, European marine ply costs a mint plus an arm and a leg. Of course, there are other options, like phenolic plywood when it comes to bulkheads but you add considerable weight by using them.

Which leads back to the space age and something interesting about that. Some of those technologies are all around us but somehow not very much used on amateur boat building. We all have the latest chip on the smartphone but most just buy “ply” for a sailboat. Which is kind of an Oxymoron when you think about why we started building boats out of Fibreglass.

On the mast pillar, full disclosure. I got offered a nice stainless industrial pipe and offered was just my kind of price.

 

[Concerto]

On the mast pillar, full disclosure. I got offered a nice stainless industrial pipe and offered was just my kind of price.

You mean FOC?

 

[GregOddity]

You mean FOC?

Yeap thinking if i'm brave enought to polish it

 

[GregOddity]

Boom! which leads to the question how long should it be? The next question is how high because I would like a sprayhood over the cabin roof which may also mean changing the height of the part of the goose neck already on the mast.

Now the question is a boom wang rod kicker thingy or trusting simply the topping lift not to get an undesired and sudden head modification. I can see the advantages of not having the boom drop on the cockpit as the wrong clutch is open by accident or a less experienced crew member confuses the clutch, but is it worth it moneywise? Sailing wise is it worth the investment while on a VERY tight budget? (Like… really tight!)

 

[William_H]

I would suggest forget about a rod kicker unless you get one really cheap. Topping lift and vang will do nicely for the time being.
Regarding aft swept spreaders. The middle of the mast (in your case thirds) must be supported in the fore and aft direction. No problem sideways with 3 lots of stays cap and 2 levels of intermediate. But fore and aft. Traditional would see the 2 lots of intermediate stays leading aft by say 80cms from abeam the mast. Pulling the middle back. You would then have 2 sets of intermediate fore stay down to deck about 1 metre and 1.5 metres forward of mast. (pulling middle forward.) All very robust but a pain to get jib around the intermediate fore stays when tacking.
Using aft swept spreaders you have the 2 sets of intermediate side stays with chain plates say 80cms aft of abeam the mast pulling it back. But instead of intermediate fore stays you use the aft swept spreaders to push the middle of the mast forward against those aft set side stays. Both cap[ and int. sidestays. Obviously not as robust as int. forestays but does the job. I have sailed on one 40ft Farr where an intermediate forestay is available to be tensioned down to the fore deck in case of really rough water and strong winds.
I am a fan of the aftswept spreaders on my fractional rig little boat. However I do a lot of tacking so it works well. If you were set on ocean crossings on one tack for days on end intermediate fore stays are the way to go.
The chain plates aft of abeam the mast also mean cap shrouds pull top of mast back counteracting (main) fore stay so back stay becomes less critical. In fact I have had a backstay part while under spinnacker in strongish winds with no disaster. I just reconnected back stay and carried on. In my case fractional rig the cap shrouds go to that point 3/4 way up where forestay also attaches. So the back stay bends the mast when desired against a fore stay about 1.2 metres lower.
It does sound to me like your mast is not a large dimension sideways or fore and aft so needs all the support it can get.
Re mast base. I would advocate a base with a hinge. So you can self lower the mast. A pin is essential as you can get the situation where mast is in a crutch top heavy so tries to lift the base up. The base pictured above would just lift up and out. Good if you use a crane not other wise. Almost all boats around here self lower masts for bridges while under way. Boats a lot bigger than yours.
Re halyards. I am a fan of exit holes in the mast side 80 to 100 cms up from base down to deck mounted turning blocks. Do stagger the level of the holes. I think less friction and less trouble long term. Cheaper and easier. I just drilled a hole in the side of the mast then go a lump of steel rod twisted down and bashed to bend the hole in the right shape. Doesn't seem to wear much over years except when wire halyard is used for main. Mounted a little ss plate to take wear.
If you go for square spreaders do get advice on mast support fore and aft. ol'will

 

[GregOddity]

I would suggest forget about a rod kicker unless you get one really cheap. Topping lift and vang will do nicely for the time being.
Regarding aft swept spreaders. The middle of the mast (in your case thirds) must be supported in the fore and aft direction. No problem sideways with 3 lots of stays cap and 2 levels of intermediate. But fore and aft. Traditional would see the 2 lots of intermediate stays leading aft by say 80cms from abeam the mast. Pulling the middle back. You would then have 2 sets of intermediate fore stay down to deck about 1 metre and 1.5 metres forward of mast. (pulling middle forward.) All very robust but a pain to get jib around the intermediate fore stays when tacking.
Using aft swept spreaders you have the 2 sets of intermediate side stays with chain plates say 80cms aft of abeam the mast pulling it back. But instead of intermediate fore stays you use the aft swept spreaders to push the middle of the mast forward against those aft set side stays. Both cap[ and int. sidestays. Obviously not as robust as int. forestays but does the job. I have sailed on one 40ft Farr where an intermediate forestay is available to be tensioned down to the fore deck in case of really rough water and strong winds.
I am a fan of the aftswept spreaders on my fractional rig little boat. However I do a lot of tacking so it works well. If you were set on ocean crossings on one tack for days on end intermediate fore stays are the way to go.
The chain plates aft of abeam the mast also mean cap shrouds pull top of mast back counteracting (main) fore stay so back stay becomes less critical. In fact I have had a backstay part while under spinnacker in strongish winds with no disaster. I just reconnected back stay and carried on. In my case fractional rig the cap shrouds go to that point 3/4 way up where forestay also attaches. So the back stay bends the mast when desired against a fore stay about 1.2 metres lower.
It does sound to me like your mast is not a large dimension sideways or fore and aft so needs all the support it can get.
Re mast base. I would advocate a base with a hinge. So you can self lower the mast. A pin is essential as you can get the situation where mast is in a crutch top heavy so tries to lift the base up. The base pictured above would just lift up and out. Good if you use a crane not other wise. Almost all boats around here self lower masts for bridges while under way. Boats a lot bigger than yours.
Re halyards. I am a fan of exit holes in the mast side 80 to 100 cms up from base down to deck mounted turning blocks. Do stagger the level of the holes. I think less friction and less trouble long term. Cheaper and easier. I just drilled a hole in the side of the mast then go a lump of steel rod twisted down and bashed to bend the hole in the right shape. Doesn't seem to wear much over years except when wire halyard is used for main. Mounted a little ss plate to take wear.
If you go for square spreaders do get advice on mast support fore and aft. ol'will

We’re going for square/straight (?) spreaders. The mast base does need a bit of work and alteration as I personally don’t feel comfortable having a mast that may move. I do want a pin through to hold it in place.

I’ve already read your post a couple of times today and it does make some very good points that even if we’re going with straight spreaders nevertheless calls my attention to quite a few things I need to research better. Thank you. I will come back to it a few more times I think.

 

[GregOddity]

Today we had Oddity moved so we can have better transom access. There’s a ton of bits and bobs to move in and out while we work on her and it was just not very practical where she was after she was moved for some electrical work in the yard. The move went without a hitch, great ground crew on the marina. Well unfair from me I guess, the people at the marina are simply great.

We now also have a brand-new set of Selden double spreaders that was kindly “sponsored” by Paul from XW Rigging at Haslar marina as he heard some idiot had stollen the others from the mast. Thanks Paul! Of course, that still leaves me to fabricate the mast connections and the ends as we’re too poor for Selden parts. Long lockdown saw to that.

We inspected mast and Boom again to make sure we did not miss any parts that need to be serviced or inspected. Took the mast head off to inspect for corrosion and happy to report we found none.

The mast does need a Spa Day and a feather duster but for the lack of one we’re simply going to jet wash the cobwebs off. For peace of mind, we’re replacing the mast head sheaves and the Nyloc nuts. The bolts are shiny and show no sign of corrosion. Aluminium also shows no pitting, blistering or corrosion of any kind.

The track itself has a plastic insert that I wonder if it needs replacing as plastics and UV don’t really fancy each other very much. My fear is that it became to brittle. I saw no damage but then again, I was being very careful which I will not be if the damned main gets stuck on a blow and I just want it down. The track itself leads me to wonder if it allows for the easy slide cars with the little wheelie things that can run inside the track. Never used those. No idea how they perform or if the track supports them. The inside was a bit disappointing as I was expecting a plastic sleeve for the electric cables as I hate the things using the mast as a gong. The question now being if we can find a plastic sleeve that actually fits on the mast

Boom looks in mint condition

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Today we had Oddity moved so we can have better transom access. There’s a ton of bits and bobs to move in and out while we work on her and it was just not very practical where she was after she was moved for some electrical work in the yard. The move went without a hitch, great ground crew on the marina. Well unfair from me I guess, the people at the marina are simply great.

We now also have a brand-new set of Selden double spreaders that was kindly “sponsored” by Paul from XW Rigging at Haslar marina as he heard some idiot had stollen the others from the mast. Thanks Paul! Of course, that still leaves me to fabricate the mast connections and the ends as we’re too poor for Selden parts. Long lockdown saw to that.

We inspected mast and Boom again to make sure we did not miss any parts that need to be serviced or inspected. Took the mast head off to inspect for corrosion and happy to report we found none.

The mast does need a Spa Day and a feather duster but for the lack of one we’re simply going to jet wash the cobwebs off. For peace of mind, we’re replacing the mast head sheaves and the Nyloc nuts. The bolts are shiny and show no sign of corrosion. Aluminium also shows no pitting, blistering or corrosion of any kind.

The track itself has a plastic insert that I wonder if it needs replacing as plastics and UV don’t really fancy each other very much. My fear is that it became to brittle. I saw no damage but then again, I was being very careful which I will not be if the damned main gets stuck on a blow and I just want it down. The track itself leads me to wonder if it allows for the easy slide cars with the little wheelie things that can run inside the track. Never used those. No idea how they perform or if the track supports them. The inside was a bit disappointing as I was expecting a plastic sleeve for the electric cables as I hate the things using the mast as a gong. The question now being if we can find a plastic sleeve that actually fits on the mast

Boom looks in mint condition

It's not clear from the pictures, but is the plastic extrusion not there to create two cable conduits on ether side of the luff groove? (And nothing to do with the slides which shouldn't be able to touch it).

 

[GregOddity]

It's not clear from the pictures, but is the plastic extrusion not there to create two cable conduits on ether side of the luff groove? (And nothing to do with the slides which shouldn't be able to touch it).

Not sure is the best answer to that. We looked but could not decide as we’re not familiar with any sort of plastic inserts. The side groves will allow for a few cables to come up but they’re not very wide and my fear is jamming the plastic sleeve with the cables and creating pressure areas on the track. On the other hand, there is something that looks like some sort of track on either side of the sail track. We assumed, perhaps wrongly that it’s meant for a plastic sleeve.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Best get an end on shot of both mast and plastic extrusions. I really doubt the plastic one has anything to do with slides.

 

[GregOddity]

Best get an end on shot of both mast and plastic extrusions. I really doubt the plastic one has anything to do with slides.

Going to investigate that today. Ill make a good shot of it. I need all the info I can get.

 

[Spyro]

3.5 years down the line you have ripped out the insides and you have acquired a mast.? is there a revised timescale?

 

[steveeasy]

3.5 years down the line you have ripped out the insides and you have acquired a mast.? is there a revised timescale?

what a killjoy

Steveeasy