Boatyard won’t release boat

[WayneP]

I’m looking for advice. I bought a yacht recently that is on a frame in a boatyard in the U.K.

I held back some money until the yacht is in the water. We completed a bill of sale.

I’ve asked the boatyard to move the boat onto a lorry in the next few weeks. They say they won’t because the previous owner has to settle his account (pay his bill).

Any advice please?
-can the boatyard hold onto the boat, as it is mine and their issue is with the previous owner?

I’m well aware of some mistakes I’ve made along the way to get to this point!

 

[Black Sheep]

Short answer: yes they can.

Does the bill of sale from the previous owner warrant that the boat is free of encumbrances (or similar words to the effect that there are no debts)?

 

[Tranona]

Welcome to the forum

The short answer is, yes. you should only buy a boat if you are satisfied that it is free of any claims against it. The most obvious check to make before you buy it is to ask the boatyard if there are any bills outstanding. If you have used the RYA or MCA bill of Sale then the seller has signed to say that the boat is free and is his to sell. The debt belongs with the boat and the seller was responsible for it while he owned the boat. However you now own and the debt.

All is not lost. First thing is that the seller has committed an offence and you are entitled to claim the money back from him. however this is likely to be a difficult process if he chooses to ignore you. the good thing is that you have held back some money. Hopefully this is enough to pay the yard bill - I assume you have been paying storage from the day you owned the boat. Even if it is not enough to cover the whole bill you may judge it better to take a small loss than get into a dispute with the seller.

If you are a member of the RYA you can get advice from their legal department.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Welcome. As already said. ‘Yes they can’. Dealing with abandoned yachts and debtors. I appreciate its not abandoned but the same principle applies.

 

[RichardS]

I’m looking for advice. I bought a yacht recently that is on a frame in a boatyard in the U.K.

I held back some money until the yacht is in the water. We completed a bill of sale.

I’ve asked the boatyard to move the boat onto a lorry in the next few weeks. They say they won’t because the previous owner has to settle his account (pay his bill).

Any advice please?
-can the boatyard hold onto the boat, as it is mine and their issue is with the previous owner?

I’m well aware of some mistakes I’ve made along the way to get to this point!

Presumably the reason for holding back some of the money was in case the previous owner did not deliver a boat to you in the water and free from all charges?

The question then is whether you have sufficient to cover the marina arrears etc. If you have, simply advise the previous owner in writing that the held back money has been spent.

Richard

 

[WayneP]

Hello all
Thank you very much for your replies.
I did use an RYA form and the seller has signed to say ‘the boat is free from encumbrances’.
As there were a few jobs to complete and he said he would help, we put in that he would cover storage cost in the meantime until launch. I asked for this clause as he was busy with other things. He was really helpful wrt antifouling etc and hopefully just struggling with his short term cash flow. The jobs are now complete and I’m itching to get in the water.
I held back some money in case any issues arose once launched. The boatyard would not tell me the amount but based on the replies above I wonder if they should, if the debt is against the boat.
Thanks again!

 

[WayneP]

Short answer: yes they can.

Does the bill of sale from the previous owner warrant that the boat is free of encumbrances (or similar words to the effect that there are no debts)?

Thanks for your reply. Yes it does.

 

[Tranona]

If he is a reasonable guy then sounds like you need to talk to him. As he has agreed to pay the bills even though he no longer is responsible then one would hope that he will do this before the boat leaves the yard when the total bill will be known. I had exactly the same arrangement (also including launch costs) with the buyer when I sold my last boat for the same reasons - there was still some work to complete. On launch day I paid the bill, showed him the receipt and he took over the berthing costs.

Hopefully he will stick to his word, but at least you have the retention money to bargain with.

 

[WayneP]

Presumably the reason for holding back some of the money was in case the previous owner did not deliver a boat to you in the water and free from all charges?

The question then is whether you have sufficient to cover the marina arrears etc. If you have, simply advise the previous owner in writing that the held back money has been spent.

Richard

Thank you for your reply. I held some money back in case any issues arose at launch (he assures me it sails well and is in great order but without a test sail I thought this prudent).
The marina would not tell me the amount. Given the info provided I can make a case for knowing how much is outstanding.
Thanks again. Very helpful!

 

[Neeves]

Thank you for your reply. I held some money back in case any issues arose at launch (he assures me it sails well and is in great order but without a test sail I thought this prudent).
The marina would not tell me the amount. Given the info provided I can make a case for knowing how much is outstanding.
Thanks again. Very helpful!

If the fall back is the the marina want you to pay outstanding bills - they will need to tell you how much.

Seems pretty simple to me - and their reluctance seems odd.

Jonathan

 

[WayneP]

If he is a reasonable guy then sounds like you need to talk to him. As he has agreed to pay the bills even though he no longer is responsible then one would hope that he will do this before the boat leaves the yard when the total bill will be known. I had exactly the same arrangement (also including launch costs) with the buyer when I sold my last boat for the same reasons - there was still some work to complete. On launch day I paid the bill, showed him the receipt and he took over the berthing costs.

Hopefully he will stick to his word, but at least you have the retention money to bargain with.

Thank for your reply. He's a nice guy, and has been very helpful. Sounds like cash from the sale has gone into his next boat, hence the cash flow issue! Hopefully this will be sorted in the next week and I can look forward to exciting horizons.

 

[WayneP]

If the fall back is the the marina want you to pay outstanding bills - they will need to tell you how much.

Seems pretty simple to me - and their reluctance seems odd.

Jonathan

Thanks Jonathan. Their view was that it is his account and that they shouldn't share his information. They did agree to 'pencil in' the move date whilst waiting for him to pay. I think I'll re-approach them in a few days and, given the information gained from this site, discuss this with them in more depth.
Thanks again.

 

[RJJ]

Thanks Jonathan. Their view was that it is his account and that they shouldn't share his information. They did agree to 'pencil in' the move date whilst waiting for him to pay. I think I'll re-approach them in a few days and, given the information gained from this site, discuss this with them in more depth.
Thanks again.

I think you're within your rights to tell the marina and seller that you won't be picking up the additional tab for the consequent delay either.

 

[Neeves]

And, yes

Welcome to the forum. I hope your next encounter here can be more positive.

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan

 

[Refueler]

He has signed no encumbrances .... therefore he needs to settle with the yard.

Its a grey area now as the boat is not fully yours because you held back part of agreed sum - therefore you are not fully owner yet.

The Marina will hold the boat as responsible asset until seller covers Marina debt.

Marina has no obligation to you whatsoever unless you have agreement with them.

 

[Poignard]

Thank for your reply. He's a nice guy, and has been very helpful. Sounds like cash from the sale has gone into his next boat, hence the cash flow issue! Hopefully this will be sorted in the next week and I can look forward to exciting horizons.

No, that won't do at all !

Amicable solutions and people behaving reasonably isn't what the forum wants to hear.

Nothing less than court cases and punchups will be acceptable.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Unfortunately, the contractual arrangement is between the named boat owner (the chap you bought the boat from) and the boat yard; there is no biding agreement between yourself and the yard. The yard should realise that it is to their interest to informally give you an idea of the amount of money own to them so that you can decide whether to pay his bill or not and hopefully the retainer would be enough to cover the bill. If this goes to court, the boat owner will loose and you may be able to demonstrate "loss" for been unable to use the boat for a period of time; also, the boat yard have a boat that takes usable space; in these cases, there are no real "winners" so I would again have a word with the boat yard and then firm words with the chap that sold you the boat. Welcome to forum

 

[pandos]

You could simply ask the boatyard how much money must they receive before they will load/launch the boat.

If you have retained monies you have a decision to make as to how you fund this... But if the yard are happy that you own the boat they will likely simply provide you with a figure.

Don't get caught like I was when I bought my first boat...I paid more for 8 weeks, post purchase storage, then I did for 16 weeks launch and recovery the following year. .

But even then I paid the previous owners bill and was reimbursed later...

bottom line here is you want to go sailing and the yard won't launch till they are paid...if the seller won't or can't settle the bill after you pay it, then he won't settle it before you eventually decide to pay it...and additional storage cost is ticking up all of the time....

 

[Poignard]

I would not have any formal dealings with the boatyard at all.

You have contracted to buy something that the seller cannot deliver.

It is up to him to either deliver it or be in breach of contract.

 

[penfold]

That doesn't butter parsnips if the OP wants to go sailing and the summer is slipping past.