Boating what has changed

[Bouba]

Making it even harder for the less wealthy, notably young people, to take up sailing and boating and thereby perpetuating the predominance of the old and wealthy.

Not much of benefit there, as far as I can see.

Why is everyone a buyer? Doesn’t anyone on this forum ever sell?

 

[Daydream believer]

Making it even harder for the less wealthy, notably young people, to take up sailing and boating and thereby perpetuating the predominance of the old and wealthy.

Not much of benefit there, as far as I can see.

That assumes that the young do actually WANT to take up (the ownership) of sailing & boating on larger craft. Furthermore it is not just the cost of the boat that may put them off.
Attitudes to entertainment has changed . In addition, It has been found that more are looking for "instant gratification" sports that can be swopped at will. Sailing is not necessarily one that fits that bill.
Apart from that, I speak to many dinghy sailors at my club about cruiser sailing( whilst sometimes looking for race crew) & most say that it seems boringly slow & that they would leave such pastimes until much older. So that dispels your comment a little- although not everyone feels that way. Some just say that time is the big difference. & that takes us back to the "instant gratification" bit. The older one gets the more financially stable one gets, often along with less time restraints. Cruiser sailing becomes more of an option that one can fit into one's lifestyle

 

[Bouba]

Perhaps we should instruct everyone on this forum that when they sell there should be two prices. One for rich retirees and a lower one to encourage a young person to enter the sport. And while we are at it, when anyone wants to sell their house, they should sell it to any young local person who wants to get on the housing ladder at the same price their parents paid before they were born

 

[Poignard]

Perhaps we should instruct everyone on this forum that when they sell there should be two prices. One for rich retirees and a lower one to encourage a young person to enter the sport. And while we are at it, when anyone wants to sell their house, they should sell it to any young local person who wants to get on the housing ladder at the same price their parents paid before they were born

It's your idea, you instruct them!

Rather socialist idea, by the way. Should go down like a lead balloon here ?

I will sell mine for what I can get, chum! By the time I get too decrepit to sail I will have care costs to fund.

 

[Daydream believer]

Perhaps we should instruct everyone on this forum that when they sell there should be two prices. One for rich retirees and a lower one to encourage a young person to enter the sport. And while we are at it, when anyone wants to sell their house, they should sell it to any young local person who wants to get on the housing ladder at the same price their parents paid before they were born

Reminds me of the days of retail price maintenance. Garages were not allowed to sell new cars below a certain price. My father offered Chalkwell motors an old concrete mixer as part of the deal to buy me a Triumph Herald for my birthday present. They did a PX deal on the mixer. They delivered the car & ignored the mixer. Then 6 months later they turned up & asked for the mixer. Seems they wanted to do some concreting at their garage so decided to collect the mixer after all.
So i will sell you my boat cheap but only if you pay me £50K for the electric mixer in the garden at the same time.

 

[TiggerToo]

View attachment 126255

What's he smoking? It must be quite potent.
Probably been to Peppa Pig Word, too.

 

[Poignard]

What's he smoking? It must be quite potent.
Probably been to Peppa Pig Word, too.

You recognise him too!

 

[TiggerToo]

, the losers will be Portugal, Spain and France and eventually Croatia once it is in Schengen.

Correction: the losers will be those poor sailors who only have the little-England black passports wishing to cruise those coasts unencumbered by this ridiculous red tape

 

[dgadee]

That assumes that the young do actually WANT to take up (the ownership) of sailing & boating on larger craft. Furthermore it is not just the cost of the boat that may put them off.
Attitudes to entertainment has changed . In addition, It has been found that more are looking for "instant gratification" sports that can be swopped at will. Sailing is not necessarily one that fits that bill.
Apart from that, I speak to many dinghy sailors at my club about cruiser sailing( whilst sometimes looking for race crew) & most say that it seems boringly slow & that they would leave such pastimes until much older. So that dispels your comment a little- although not everyone feels that way. Some just say that time is the big difference. & that takes us back to the "instant gratification" bit. The older one gets the more financially stable one gets, often along with less time restraints. Cruiser sailing becomes more of an option that one can fit into one's lifestyle

True. Owning boats is time intensive. Cruising is time intensive. I only came back to it later in life after a longish period going round the buoys.

 

[TiggerToo]

I understand the comfort that sticking their heads in the sand and ignoring reality brings to some. For others the memory of aliens' cards, regular reporting to the police, limited cash, intrusive questioning, etc. has not gone and the fear of their return is real. Yes, we will adapt but a lot of the pleasures and adventures we have had in the past will be restricted if not impossible in the future.

absolutely true.

And this, possibly, is the thing that the unmentionable has the greatest impact on our lives and pleasures. Essentially one more restriction of freedom. And sailing is about freedom (from the interference of human laws and conventions).

 

[dgadee]

absolutely true.

And this, possibly, is the thing that the unmentionable has the greatest impact on our lives and pleasures. Essentially one more restriction of freedom. And sailing is about freedom (from the interference of human laws and conventions).

Can't see freedom in that light. Lots of regulation, legal and social. You might as well say having a bus pass is Freedom. You can go anywhere with it (circumscribed by legal and social regulation).

 

[Lightwave395]

You recognise him too!

I spent several weeks in Dawlish once, if you'd done that too you'd understand...

 

[TiggerToo]

Can't see freedom in that light. Lots of regulation, legal and social. You might as well say having a bus pass is Freedom. You can go anywhere with it (circumscribed by legal and social regulation).

each to their own.

But, in my opinion, sailing gives one one of the best possible balance of freedoms and responsibility. You can actually do what you want, as long as you: 1) compromise with nature (weather, tides, seabed and coast) and 2) are respectful of others (helped by the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea 1972 (COLREGs).
Of course this is an idealist point of view. Economics (i.e. £££ $$$) play a huge role, but, as many here demonstrate, they too are a compromise.

As far as my own little, selfish world is concerned, the only real difference the unmentionable will make, is the complication associated with VAT status when I plan to bumble around the coastal waters of this corner of the world. It will be an inconvenience, and/or a cost. Of course I resent that. But there are much worse, and more serious impacts to others which we have spent 5 years exposing, and we are not allowed to write about, so I won't.

Sticking to the original question. It stinks.

 

[TiggerToo]

Booming second hand boat market in the UK

what effect has COVID had on that?

 

[Capt Popeye]

Making it even harder for the less wealthy, notably young people, to take up sailing and boating and thereby perpetuating the predominance of the old and wealthy.

Not much of benefit there, as far as I can see.

Well we do not have an endless supply of Moorings , Berths , etc etc or our growing population to take up our pastime and interests do we ? so prob best if we play down the expansion into water sports , cripes , we expect to see Govt ruddy interfering experts pressurising newcommers to take it up , on account of the apparent lack of newcommers ?

 

[Bouba]

what effect has COVID had on that?

Exactly my previous point. The B word has been consumed by covid (in our boaty world)

 

[Poignard]

Exactly my previous point. The B word has been consumed by covid (in our boaty world)

'masked' by Covid'

 

[dunedin]

Not much has changed for us.
Downside - sorting new suppliers in EU
Upside - we only have to put up with most of the moaners for 90/180

Presumably the reason you can be smug about people concerned about the Schengen 90/180 restriction is because you have embraced your inner-European and either (a) benefit from an EU passport, or (b) have taken a residence in an EU / Schengen country.
Actions speak louder than words, and becoming more-EU (if your personal circumstances give you the privilege) certainly is the best way to deflect the adverse consequences for boaters. Hopefully you show suitable gratitude to your EU hosts.

Unfortunately for many British # yachtsmen and yachtswomen we don’t have that luxury and our cruising and boat owning is adversely impacted with real consequences (see previous post #3). Previously we enjoyed spending time in Europe / Schengen - visits for work, land based holidays and latterly cruising by boat - spending over 120 days in Schengen in 2017, for example. All our grand-parents were born in Britain, so no EU passport, and family in Britain so don’t want to be based permanently in any single overseas country. But hoped to be able to cruise at length across multiple European countries - now impractical with 90/180.
Thanks for your (lack of) empathy, sitting comfortable from your EU residency.

# I use the term British rather than UK for this specific post. In the bizarre confused position that our fellow UK citizens from Northern Ireland find themselves, in terms of Schengen and boat VAT they are uniquely better off (though nearly a year on, the Givernemnt still cannot give guidance on the implications for boating with the HMRC Notice 8 still giving no info on NI circumstances for yacht owners). However they also lose out in many other ways due to the Irish Sea “border” - a friend who has worked as an NHS doctor through Covid is faced with a bill of several hundred pounds if she wants to take her dog with her to go home to visit her parents in another part of the UK for Christmas (and it would be near impossible if she wanted to do so by yacht - although most say if you ignore the rules nobody will mind, that is hardly the point). And who knows the long term consequences for our NI friends, with such hurdles being created across the Irish Sea, and so many now getting Irish EU passports.

 

[Bouba]

'masked by Covid'

Potato, potahto,

 

[awol]

Presumably the reason you can be smug about people concerned about the Schengen 90/180 restriction is because you have embraced your inner-European and either (a) benefit from an EU passport, or (b) have taken a residence in an EU / Schengen country.
Actions speak louder than words, and becoming more-EU (if your personal circumstances give you the privilege) certainly is the best way to deflect the adverse consequences for boaters. Hopefully you show suitable gratitude to your EU hosts.

Unfortunately for many British # yachtsmen and yachtswomen we don’t have that luxury and our cruising and boat owning is adversely impacted with real consequences (see previous post #3). Previously we enjoyed spending time in Europe / Schengen - visits for work, land based holidays and latterly cruising by boat - spending over 120 days in Schengen in 2017, for example. All our grand-parents were born in Britain, so no EU passport, and family in Britain so don’t want to be based permanently in any single overseas country. But hoped to be able to cruise at length across multiple European countries - now impractical with 90/180.
Thanks for your (lack of) empathy from your EU residency.

# I specifically use the term British rather than UK for this specific post. In the bizarre confused position that our fellow UK citizens from Northern Ireland find themselves, in terms of Schengen and boat VAT they are uniquely better off. However the also lose out in many other ways due to the Irish Sea “border” - a friend who has worked as an NHS doctor through Covid is faced with a bill of several hundred pounds if she wants to take her dog with her to go home to visit her parents in another part of the UK for Christmas (and it would be near impossible if she wanted to do so by yacht - although most say if you ignore the rules nobody will mind, that is hardly the point). And who knows the long term consequences for our NI friends, with such hurdles being created across the Irish Sea, and so many now getting Irish EU passports.

What? No link to your charcoal burning teutonic forebears? Despite the extortionate costs my wife has sworn fealty to the Queen (something I have never had to do), I have embraced my Irish roots and my children (and their children) have dual French/UK nationality so we all have a choice of lanes at passport control. Still have the nausea of entering Schengen which we had before but at least the pound and Euro have almost reached parity which makes conversion easier. Maybe this year the downsides may be obvious.