Boat propulsion. Is electric actually green?

[thinwater]

You wouldn’t waste a ‘day each way’ charging.....a couple of hours max both ways...toilet and meal breaks...you probably won’t spend any extra time charging

False logic unless there is a charging station every 10 km and charging takes 5 minutes.

a. The charging stations won't be were you want to eat/stop. And my stops are only a few minutes. Pee and get drive-thru food.
b. Really, only a few hours wasted makes an 8 hour day into two days. Any time wasted on an 11 hour day ....
c. How many charge stops? probably 2, because if you guess wrong on the range it is a very long walk.

No one would buy a plug in electric for this sort of use. But it was a trick question. The real answer is neither. It does not matter which you bought, because if you are smart you rent an IC car for the trips. Easy and I often do that, because with unlimited mileage, it's cheaper to rent than take my own car. And you get to try out different rides.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

As an EV owner and advocate, I rented a Toyota 4runner for my stateside road trip. Our longest day was just under 400 miles, but then, it was a holiday. I would have loved to do it in an EV, but our route looked dodgy for charging. Not much wilderness, but definitely country. Boat wise, like cars in America, we’ll end up with a mix. Some people’s use patterns will suit electric drive. Some will never lose the diesel. I wonder if theres a future for solar powered electrolysis? Whether that is smaller and lighter than a battery pack, for some.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

They might be wrong…if nobody changes then nothing changes…with little 2 hp outboards for tenders etc…we may have reached a tipping point in favour of electric…this can’t happen unless people actively change

We had a 1980 Yamaha 2 that we’d owned since 1996. It was time to retire it. That’s the time to go electric. And an easy decision, rather than a new 4 stroke.

 

[Bouba]

We had a 1980 Yamaha 2 that we’d owned since 1996. It was time to retire it. That’s the time to go electric. And an easy decision, rather than a new 4 stroke.

If we only changed due to natural wastage....there might not be any electric outboards to choose from. Those willing to stump up the dosh as soon as something appears on the market create the choice we have today......on an individual case it’s wasteful...but globally it’s the beginning of something positive

 

[Chiara’s slave]

If we only changed due to natural wastage....there might not be any electric outboards to choose from. Those willing to stump up the dosh as soon as something appears on the market create the choice we have today......on an individual case it’s wasteful...but globally it’s the beginning of something positive

That’s great if you have the spare dosh. I have a new kitchen to fund, as well as the boat addiction problem.

 

[Bouba]

I remember once coming ashore to a lovely pristine beach in our dingy....a woman on the beach starts berating us for polluting the sea with petrol and oil...we had to spend five minutes explaining to her what a Torqeedo is...I’m not sure she understood

 

[Bouba]

That’s great if you have the spare dosh. I have a new kitchen to fund, as well as the boat addiction problem.

We just put in the new kitchen....took us nearly twenty years to get around to it...cupboard doors falling off or missing, draining board rotting....but as you say the boat takes up all my time...

 

[flaming]

Why would I spend 2K on an electric outboard when I have one that works fine, runs on fresh air-well almost-and has been made already. It is now repaying the enviromental damage making it caused. The enviromental cost of an electric outboard is as much as making a ICE one I suspect!

At the last boat show there was an exhibit from the green blue. They had 2 tanks of water, one with an electric outboard mounted in it, and one with a modern 4 stroke. They had run the outboards for half an hour in each. The water in the petrol outboard's tank was filthy. Here it is at a different show.

CO2 isn't, to me, the main driver to remove ICE from the marine environment where possible, it's protecting the very environment we enjoy.

 

[Bouba]

And the noise of little outboards ....two or four stroke

 

[Chiara’s slave]

We just put in the new kitchen....took us nearly twenty years to get around to it...cupboard doors falling off or missing, draining board rotting....but as you say the boat takes up all my time...

Really it’s about 5 years late for us. All sorts of stuff has got in the way.

The water tanks, it’s nice to know we’ve done the right thing. We were of course aware of that. And that was a clean 4 stroke. You could see the oil scum from our 1980 2 stroke.

 

[Stemar]

At the last boat show there was an exhibit from the green blue. They had 2 tanks of water, one with an electric outboard mounted in it, and one with a modern 4 stroke. They had run the outboards for half an hour in each. The water in the petrol outboard's tank was filthy. Here it is at a different show.

CO2 isn't, to me, the main driver to remove ICE from the marine environment where possible, it's protecting the very environment we enjoy.

That smells a bit. My outboard doesn't produce anything like that amount of crap in half an hour. New electric OB v old petrol one with knackered piston rings and the choke out?

I'm not dissing the idea of elecric OBs, I'd have one if they weren't so dear, but I don't think that "demo" does them any favours.

 

[flaming]

That smells a bit. My outboard doesn't produce anything like that amount of crap in half an hour. New electric OB v old petrol one with knackered piston rings and the choke out?

I'm not dissing the idea of elecric OBs, I'd have one if they weren't so dear, but I don't think that "demo" does them any favours.

I've seen it at boat shows. I don't think it's faked.

 

[rotrax]

Filling your tiny outboard tank from a jerrycan on a pitching deck….

I never fill from a jerrycan or large container. The tank is filled at the start of the season and 'topped up' as required. Each 'top up' is less than 1 litre.

I have a squidgy bottle with a long tube, rather like HMRC use to test dodgy diesel. I suck into the bottle, from my 10 litre container, carefully remove the pipe, using a bit of old towel to catch drops. Bottle decanted into tank by squeezing tube. Two goes max and its done. Took a litre of spare fuel when we took the tide to Truro for shopping, did not need it. Or when we went into Losswithiel. As I said, our Suzuki four stroke is VERY frugal.

IMHO, the enviromental cost of scrapping a perfectly good four stroke outboard is less than that needed to make an electric outboard.

 

[Bouba]

I never fill from a jerrycan or large container. The tank is filled at the start of the season and 'topped up' as required. Each 'top up' is less than 1 litre.

I have a squidgy bottle with a long tube, rather like HMRC use to test dodgy diesel. I suck into the bottle, from my 10 litre container, carefully remove the pipe, using a bit of old towel to catch drops. Bottle decanted into tank by squeezing tube. Two goes max and its done. Took a litre of spare fuel when we took the tide to Truro for shopping, did not need it. Or when we went into Losswithiel. As I said, our Suzuki four stroke is VERY frugal.

IMHO, the enviromental cost of scrapping a perfectly good four stroke outboard is less than that needed to make an electric outboard.

Nobody scraps outboards..just like nobody scraps motorbikes...they are sold on, stored in sheds, stripped for parts or left in a field to rot

 

[flaming]

IMHO, the enviromental cost of scrapping a perfectly good four stroke outboard is less than that needed to make an electric outboard.

I don't think anyone is arguing that you should scrap perfectly good outboards.

What is being suggested is that if someone does need to buy a new one an electric one should be considered. Seems reasonable to me.

 

[Refueler]

I don't think anyone is arguing that you should scrap perfectly good outboards.

What is being suggested is that if someone does need to buy a new one an electric one should be considered. Seems reasonable to me.

Given that we lost 2strokers even though manufacturers were telling all they could clean them up ...

I think the 2nd hand market will just remain as long as fuel is out there - 2 and 4str once the greenies get their way.

Lets be honest ... most O/bds today are not the environmental disasters as the Seagull O/bds ... even though I rather like the old Seagulls ...

 

[flaming]

Lets be honest ... most O/bds today are not the environmental disasters as the Seagull O/bds ... even though I rather like the old Seagulls ...

No of course not. And if you really want to minimise your impact, row.

 

[Refueler]

No of course not. And if you really want to minimise your impact, row.

It may just come to that !!

Risking all out ban ... the Green Brigade really p' me off ... not because I am in the Oil / Ship Business .. but because they do not put forward realistic alternative.
They forget that a major % of living today - products are derived or produced because of oil. So shut down totally all oil .. what are we going to do then ?

E-power already is showing that we can power transport - BUT - its the behind the scenes support structure that is woefully lacking in terms of where that charge power comes from.

How much conventional power is consumed by manufacturing wind turbine blades ? transporting to site and erecting .. then dismantling .. transporting to the landfill for disposal ? Wonder what the comparison of conventional power for this vs the xx years of use of the trurbine ?

 

[flaming]

It may just come to that !!

Risking all out ban ... the Green Brigade really p' me off ... not because I am in the Oil / Ship Business .. but because they do not put forward realistic alternative.
They forget that a major % of living today - products are derived or produced because of oil. So shut down totally all oil .. what are we going to do then ?

E-power already is showing that we can power transport - BUT - its the behind the scenes support structure that is woefully lacking in terms of where that charge power comes from.

How much conventional power is consumed by manufacturing wind turbine blades ? transporting to site and erecting .. then dismantling .. transporting to the landfill for disposal ? Wonder what the comparison of conventional power for this vs the xx years of use of the trurbine ?

Getting way off topic here, but if you oppose producing renewable power plants on the basis that they use non-renewable power to assemble, then how will you ever get to a renewable point?

When the grid used in the manufacture of anything is largely carbon free then those things come with less carbon footprint when made. So as we build up renewable power generation, then next generation of renewable power plants made using power from the first lot are themselves greener on production.
Then imagine we get to a point where the service vehicles are not ICE powered...

It's an iterative process, not a "swap everything now!" We're currently in the point where we have to "invest" CO2 release now in projects that mean that the next generation will release a lot less, and then the following generation less still.

 

[Refueler]

Getting way off topic here, but if you oppose producing renewable power plants on the basis that they use non-renewable power to assemble, then how will you ever get to a renewable point?

When the grid used in the manufacture of anything is largely carbon free then those things come with less carbon footprint when made. So as we build up renewable power generation, then next generation of renewable power plants made using power from the first lot are themselves greener on production.
Then imagine we get to a point where the service vehicles are not ICE powered...

It's an iterative process, not a "swap everything now!" We're currently in the point where we have to "invest" CO2 release now in projects that mean that the next generation will release a lot less, and then the following generation less still.

I do not disagree .. think you extrapolate my thinking too far ...

Of course its an incremental evolution .. but my position is that people like Stop OIl and many other groups are not willing to take that path.