Boat prices

[Baddox]

SNIP
2. All this talk of a 'buyers market' is not helping sales. The few punters with cash to spend are ever more hesitant to spend it as they believe the a better deal could be just around the corner.

That may be true for some people, but not for others.

I've started looking for my next boat, partly because there's bargains to be had. I'm more interested in enjoying a boat sooner rather than getting a bargain later.
Boats seem to have longer working life than cars, so although they'll never make a sensible financial asset, the depreciation on them isn't so steep and I accept that a few years usage, wear and tear will take its toll on the subsequent value of what is really a toy and not an investment.
So, the value equation then becomes how much will I save by waiting a year or two versus how much benefit would my family and I get from stepping up to the next boat now? It's not all about cost and value.

 

[Way]

That is amazing John
I'm not surprised you do well to be honest. Your pictures are spot on. Prices seem right/reasonable. And the boats seem all to be high quality.

Not here :encouragement:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1179972122031885.1073741829.540257116003392&type=3

https://www.facebook.com/JohnRodriguezYachts/posts/1190712874291143


Two more added since then, but we have been working hard with owners and pricing realistically.

Yachtworld have just released the figures for the average time for a sale in Europe (for yachtworld listed sailing yachts) and it is currently 350 days.

 

[Slycat]

With boats being advertised at wildly differing prices it is really difficult to work out what a boat's actual value is. We are currently advertising our boat here:
http://www.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=434661 for 12.5k but Apollo duck has a same age example on sale for 17.5k and a 4 years newer model for 11.75k. All we really want is a reasonable offer for her but who is to say what 'reasonable' is?

FYI I bought my 30 footer fin keel in quite good condition (only needed cleaning) for £6500. That included a nice spinnaker, spinny poll etc. It also included a very solid yard trailer.

That's the real market.

 

[andymcp]

I was looking over the weekend at examples of our possible shortlist, to get a feel for what the market price is like these days. One example had a photo showing what I presume to be the original asking price of circa £90k, even though the current listed price is less than £70k. As someone mentioned already, it does make you wonder how old the photos are, and what condition one might find it in if you were to drop by the marina today?

 

[basic]

That may be true for some people, but not for others.

I've started looking for my next boat, partly because there's bargains to be had. I'm more interested in enjoying a boat sooner rather than getting a bargain later.
Boats seem to have longer working life than cars, so although they'll never make a sensible financial asset, the depreciation on them isn't so steep and I accept that a few years usage, wear and tear will take its toll on the subsequent value of what is really a toy and not an investment.
So, the value equation then becomes how much will I save by waiting a year or two versus how much benefit would my family and I get from stepping up to the next boat now? It's not all about cost and value.

That seems like a very sensible approach to me. Why delay your pleasure. If you can afford it now why wait.

 

[steve yates]

SNIP
2. All this talk of a 'buyers market' is not helping sales. The few punters with cash to spend are ever more hesitant to spend it as they believe the a better deal could be just around the corner.
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?449744-Boat-prices/page5#goiMWkoDP59wr5jR.99

I doubt that, I would have thought most folk have a budget to spend and an idea of what they would like for that. If they find it, they will buy it, and go sailing. Not suddenly think, if I hang on to this cash for two years I can get even more value for it. Boats are toys, not investments.

 

[Way]

Totally agree

And I don't think talk of a buyers market makes any difference. It's not like deflation over a broad set of products/services. It's a buyers market - very clearly. And I think that, as I've said before, is because the market has structurally changed. The talk of going back to pre-crisis levels again isn't true in my opinion and doesn't take into account the changed market dynamics. And the fact that we haven't been in recession for years now.

As a further note, I have dropped the Hurley price again and still have no enquiries. My account on Apollo Duck still shows the emails I received on my Trapper 28 back in 2012, even AFTER it had 'sold' written clearly on the advert. There are 7 or 8 emails there.

I doubt that, I would have thought most folk have a budget to spend and an idea of what they would like for that. If they find it, they will buy it, and go sailing. Not suddenly think, if I hang on to this cash for two years I can get even more value for it. Boats are toys, not investments.

 

[Koeketiene]

I doubt that, I would have thought most folk have a budget to spend and an idea of what they would like for that. If they find it, they will buy it, and go sailing. Not suddenly think, if I hang on to this cash for two years I can get even more value for it. Boats are toys, not investments.

I have two friends who are actively looking for boats and have cash available.
One of them has narrowed his choice down to three possible boats which he's been 'following' for 6 months - a year.
I even accompanied him on a visit to look over one boat I know he really likes. All the big ticket items are fairly recent and she's ready to sail (apart from a good clean) and she is attractively priced.
Yet, he has not put in an offer. Why? Because the asking price has already dropped twice and he thinks it will drop again.
Meanwhile... the boat is sitting unused in a yard.

 

[doug748]

Totally agree

And I don't think talk of a buyers market makes any difference. It's not like deflation over a broad set of products/services. It's a buyers market - very clearly. And I think that, as I've said before, is because the market has structurally changed. The talk of going back to pre-crisis levels again isn't true in my opinion and doesn't take into account the changed market dynamics. And the fact that we haven't been in recession for years now.

As a further note, I have dropped the Hurley price again and still have no enquiries. My account on Apollo Duck still shows the emails I received on my Trapper 28 back in 2012, even AFTER it had 'sold' written clearly on the advert. There are 7 or 8 emails there.

Don't price it too low, there is a market for that type of boat and some of the tales of woe are a bit hysterical.

The Bay would move it on. Two recent examples which the eagle eyed will recognise form forum postings:

* A power boat, mainly stripped out, the rest in poor order with no engines. The Forum view was that it was worth nothing, or less than nothing. It went up to £3,200 with 28 bids, but the seller was holding out for more

* A 25ft sailing boat with tattered sails, engine shot, deck leaking badly and some bodging evident. An older bilge keeler not known for it's sailing ability. It was bid up to £2,300 with over 20 bids - Did not reach it's seller's Reserve.

 

[jordanbasset]

I have two friends who are actively looking for boats and have cash available.
One of them has narrowed his choice down to three possible boats which he's been 'following' for 6 months - a year.
I even accompanied him on a visit to look over one boat I know he really likes. All the big ticket items are fairly recent and she's ready to sail (apart from a good clean) and she is attractively priced.
Yet, he has not put in an offer. Why? Because the asking price has already dropped twice and he thinks it will drop again.
Meanwhile... the boat is sitting unused in a yard.

If he really wants a boat do not understand his hesitation. If I was him I would put an offer in on the boat he was interested in and see what happens.

 

[Way]

I wish it were hysterical. But I genuinely think we're in a different time for boating. My generation and younger are still trying to get on the housing ladder, some of them in their mid 30s', the number of buyers will only reduce over the next few years.

Think EBay's a good idea. That's definitely on my list of options

Don't price it too low, there is a market for that type of boat and some of the tales of woe are a bit hysterical.

The Bay would move it on. Two recent examples which the eagle eyed will recognise form forum postings:

* A power boat, mainly stripped out, the rest in poor order with no engines. The Forum view was that it was worth nothing, or less than nothing. It went up to £3,200 with 28 bids, but the seller was holding out for more

* A 25ft sailing boat with tattered sails, engine shot, deck leaking badly and some bodging evident. An older bilge keeler not known for it's sailing ability. It was bid up to £2,300 with over 20 bids - Did not reach it's seller's Reserve.

 

[Way]

+1

If you're that bothered get on with it, I would. My gentle response to anyone telling me a boat was priced right and had been on the market for a year +, was no it isn't otherwise it would've sold. As JONIC points out, the right boat at the right price will sell. It also amazes me the number of brokers that will put up awful pictures of boats. Or let you drive a long way (like the Maxi in Dover I saw) only to find that it does not match the description.

...so a boat for sale for a year + justifies trying your luck really I'd say re your friend

If he really wants a boat do not understand his hesitation. If I was him I would put an offer in on the boat he was interested in and see what happens.

 

[doug748]

Think EBay's a good idea. That's definitely on my list of options

Be interesting to see how it goes.

People hate to pay a fair price - but will spend well over the odds for a bargain.
That's how E Bay seems to work.

 

[dunedin]

I guess at some point there are simply more smallish oldish boats available than people who want smallish oldish boats.

A 24 foot boat was a fair sized boat in the early 70's, a big step up from the 17 foot Silhouette or Leisure 17. And a 27 foot Vega was a superyacht.
But people's expectations have changed - and perhaps very few people now want to go boating in the gap between racing dinghies (RS 400 etc, with hot showers in the clubhouse and home afterwards) and more modern 30 plus footers (with hot water, standing headroom and separate enclosed cabins).
In which case ultimately it won't actually just be a matter of price, but simple lack of buyers as the previous generation hang up their anchors?

 

[doug748]

I guess at some point there are simply more smallish oldish boats available than people who want smallish oldish boats....

.....In which case ultimately it won't actually just be a matter of price, but simple lack of buyers as the previous generation hang up their anchors?

Yes, I think we are already there. It was, sort of, what was behind my advice to Way.
At some point it hardly matters how much you reduce the price, finding the elusive buyer is the key when there are so few around.
When they see what they want a serious viewer will go for it.

Anyway all this chit chat will help put Way's boat in the shop window :

http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=458492

Hope I have the right one, it looks a fine buy to me.

 

[steve yates]

I have two friends who are actively looking for boats and have cash available.
One of them has narrowed his choice down to three possible boats which he's been 'following' for 6 months - a year.
I even accompanied him on a visit to look over one boat I know he really likes. All the big ticket items are fairly recent and she's ready to sail (apart from a good clean) and she is attractively priced.
Yet, he has not put in an offer. Why? Because the asking price has already dropped twice and he thinks it will drop again.
Meanwhile... the boat is sitting unused in a yard.

If he has a boat he is sailing in the meantime, fine. Though of course the same may happen in reverse when he tries to sell

If he is boatless, then I find that rather sad. What price would he put on that missed year of sailing? At the very least, why not make an offer for what he thinks it will drop to?

He could say I'll buy it for that now. Every month you wait, I'll drop the offer by x

 

[Way]

I totally agree. that's definitely my view - the market is getting smaller as buyers diminish and the sort of boat people want has changed. plus, there are now relatively new AWBs on the market at reasonable prices. Making mine even less desirable. Im not worrying about it. I bought my new boat on what I could afford ex-Hurley, so the old boat proceeds will just go towards gear for the new boat.

I guess at some point there are simply more smallish oldish boats available than people who want smallish oldish boats.

A 24 foot boat was a fair sized boat in the early 70's, a big step up from the 17 foot Silhouette or Leisure 17. And a 27 foot Vega was a superyacht.
But people's expectations have changed - and perhaps very few people now want to go boating in the gap between racing dinghies (RS 400 etc, with hot showers in the clubhouse and home afterwards) and more modern 30 plus footers (with hot water, standing headroom and separate enclosed cabins).
In which case ultimately it won't actually just be a matter of price, but simple lack of buyers as the previous generation hang up their anchors?

 

[Way]

Thank you! That's her. I think she's a decent buy. Then again she's only worth what someone will pay.

Yes, I think we are already there. It was, sort of, what was behind my advice to Way.
At some point it hardly matters how much you reduce the price, finding the elusive buyer is the key when there are so few around.
When they see what they want a serious viewer will go for it.

Anyway all this chit chat will help put Way's boat in the shop window :

http://yachts.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=458492

Hope I have the right one, it looks a fine buy to me.

 

[basic]

I have two friends who are actively looking for boats and have cash available.
One of them has narrowed his choice down to three possible boats which he's been 'following' for 6 months - a year.
I even accompanied him on a visit to look over one boat I know he really likes. All the big ticket items are fairly recent and she's ready to sail (apart from a good clean) and she is attractively priced.
Yet, he has not put in an offer. Why? Because the asking price has already dropped twice and he thinks it will drop again.
Meanwhile... the boat is sitting unused in a yard.

It will serve him right when he loses it which he probably will.

 

[basic]

The odd good buy on eBay at the moment but you have to sort the good from the rubbish. Some have really tatty interiors which to me indicates the general neglect of the boat. I amazed at some of the pigsties offered for sale.