Boat prices

[Seven Spades]

Yes but it is an indication of the market. This seller does not want to wait three years to sell his boat at the "right price". I would love to know what this sells for, no doubt Berthon will keep the details private so as to not bring down the market for Discovery yachts. To some extent they are right an auction is always going to produce a discount because it will attract bargain hunters. However even the recent falls in values I wonder if the new owner will be looking at 50% of what he paid in ten years time or if that Discovery has done its depreciation now.

My guess is that mortgages are going to be harder to get on new boats with larger deposits being the order of the day.

 

[doug748]

Selling anything has always been a game of asking optomistic money, accepting what you can get or carrying on in hope.
It's a bad time to have to sell boats and maybe for the foreseeable future. The lesson for todays buyer is to rent unless you can stomach getting 50% or less back a few years on. If it leads to more boats being kept longer and being better looked after and less demand for new boats, it is not all bad.

Only E bay seems to buck the trend. If we can trust the results, some grim examples, at the bottom of the market, seem to return good money even now.

 

[Resolution]

It is rather sad for us that while used yacht values are on the downward slope, the prices for classic cars have been climbing steadily in the past ten years (and CGT free).
With hindsight, I should have skipped the yacht and bought a Jag D type instead!

 

[duncan99210]

I think that the second hand market has been in sharp decline for seven or eight years now. We bought our current boat, a nine year old Bavaria, in 2009. It had been on the market for seven or eight months, had had two price reductions and was still not shifting. We looked her over, we're happy with her and, having been told the owner was open to offers, put in an offer some 20% less than the asking price. It was immediately accepted. Always wondered what would have been the reaction to an even lower offer, bit too late now!
So, my thinking is to find the boat you like, largely ignore the asking price and make an offer on what you consider the boat to be worth to you as it is. If the offer is accepted, fine: if not, then walk away and look for another boat. There are so many on the market at the moment that it really is a buyers market and, unless you're looking for some very specific small volume boat, you're bound to find another example that will sell at the price you want to pay.
Interestingly, I noticed recently a similar boat to ours, same age and equipment levels. The asking price for that boat was the same as the price I paid for our current boat, some sevn years down the line. Now, to my mind that either reflects wishful thinking on the part of the broker or owner (most likely) or that I got a truly incredible bargain seven years ago.....

 

[Tranona]

Just to illustrate the decline in prices. My similar Bavaria was put on the market 2 years ago at an asking price that reflected the actual achieved prices for the previous three sales and has just sold for more than 20% less. Don't know the actual selling price as I got out of the cycle by doing a part exchange on a new boat at a very acceptable allowance - not that it would suit everybody to go this route. Of course this exposes me to significant depreciation on the new boat and uncertainty about what it will be worth when i come to sell it. However instead of having a 15 year old boat that inevitably would cost to keep up to scratch I now have a new, and for me a much better boat for my needs that will last me out without (hopefully) any significant expenditure. My children can worry about what it is worth when it comes to it!

 

[roblpm]

This is all looking good. The Dazcat 1495 in this months yachting world at £600,000 will be £60,000 in 5 years when I want to buy it?

More seriously though the price to trade up should be lower.

I never understand people proudly telling me that they have made 100k on a house quite oblivious to the fact that if they want to trade up the one that is double the price has just gone up 200k!

 

[Way]

+1

I'd say categorically their wishful thinking.

I think that the second hand market has been in sharp decline for seven or eight years now. We bought our current boat, a nine year old Bavaria, in 2009. It had been on the market for seven or eight months, had had two price reductions and was still not shifting. We looked her over, we're happy with her and, having been told the owner was open to offers, put in an offer some 20% less than the asking price. It was immediately accepted. Always wondered what would have been the reaction to an even lower offer, bit too late now!
So, my thinking is to find the boat you like, largely ignore the asking price and make an offer on what you consider the boat to be worth to you as it is. If the offer is accepted, fine: if not, then walk away and look for another boat. There are so many on the market at the moment that it really is a buyers market and, unless you're looking for some very specific small volume boat, you're bound to find another example that will sell at the price you want to pay.
Interestingly, I noticed recently a similar boat to ours, same age and equipment levels. The asking price for that boat was the same as the price I paid for our current boat, some sevn years down the line. Now, to my mind that either reflects wishful thinking on the part of the broker or owner (most likely) or that I got a truly incredible bargain seven years ago.....

 

[jordanbasset]

Some people are realistic in what they ask for their boats, others are not. We sold our boat , a Bavaria 38 within a couple of weeks as I believe we priced it correctly.
Just bought our latest boat, a 2013 Bavaria 33, with a lot of extras on it, for the full asking price, again it was priced correctly, maybe even a little too cheap. Was only on sale for a week when I noticed it. Similar boats were on sale for an extra 15,000 euros or so.
But the guy selling got what he wanted and so did I and he did not have continueing costs for storage and upkeep and he could move on to what he wanted to do next- a win win.
The easy way to tell if a boat is priced correctly is that it sells.

 

[pvb]

Just bought our latest boat, a 2013 Bavaria 33, with a lot of extras on it, for the full asking price, again it was priced correctly, maybe even a little too cheap.

Beareing in mind the spec of the boat, I think you got an absolute bargain! Not sure about the aesthetics of the added on metalwork though.

 

[Caer Urfa]

Most new buyers have already made a short list of the boat model they want, so the seller is already competing with all these models also up for sale, almost all buyers have a budget and almost all 'look very carefully' at what they are getting for their hard end cash before departing with it as the days of a quick look over are long gone..

As a side line for years I help new buyers find Colvic Watsons and also do Pre Buying Inspection Visits, however like most other boats finding one is not a problem, finding a good one is a big problem.

It never ceases to amaze me the condition some owners leave there boats in for viewing, like all things condition is everything BUT so is presentation.

Then there are the boats with bits not working (usually navigation) then there are seized sea cocks, mouldy cushions, broken heads, windows leaking damp stored sails etc all a nice target to get the buyer to want a reduction in price, almost all boats will need some attention but never think all buyers are DIY enthusiasts or want a project.

My advice is simple, make sure everything works and the boat is presented in a clean tidy condition.

For example one new buyer in December wanted a CW 23'-6" and could find them up for sale from £7000 to £15000, he had already viewed four before I met him as his budget was £12k , so did he buy the cheapest ?what did he buy?

He paid £14,500 for a nice very one in good condition only requiring some light cosmetic work and the seller sold the boat in 7 days.

Yes boat prices have dropped and some negotiation is expected 'BUT also remember' You gets what you pay for ! and never underestimate a new buyer on a viewing.

 

[jordanbasset]

Beareing in mind the spec of the boat, I think you got an absolute bargain! Not sure about the aesthetics of the added on metalwork though.

Yes I was not sure about that, the current owner does say it works well. Will give it a go for the first season, if not happy will take it off.

 

[Birdseye]

My perception is that people are hanging on to old world prices in an extremely changed market. I was told a couple of times "she's well priced for an XX footer" about boats that have been sale for 3 to 4 years. Unsurprisingly, they still are. I think loosely speaking, younger generations are not buying boats, so the market of buyers is shrinking. I also think that the market is awash with AWBs with the affect of increasing supply but also further reducing (or making them look expensive) supposedly higher quality older boats.

Thats always been the case. Did an exercise 15 years back phoning up all the private ads for a Prout Snowgoose that had appeared in the previous 2 years worth of YBW. Surprisingly everyone was willing to talk. But when I looked at the results it was clear that less than half of the boats advertised had sold, and most all of those that had sold were advertised at the lower price range. One guy had had his boat for sale for 3 years and in that time had raised his price by 10k. Was still not willing to bend.

 

[Budgieboy]

Some people are realistic in what they ask for their boats, others are not. We sold our boat , a Bavaria 38 within a couple of weeks as I believe we priced it correctly.
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?449744-Boat-prices/page3#60QTq8IsgDeLt5UG.99

So how do you go about selling and pricing a boat ? I looked at the asking prices for same boat and year on the market , undercut them by roughly 5 to 6k , then with mine quite kitted up ie :- full set of sails , AIS transducer folding prop etc what else can you do ? I have now given her the yearly lift and antifoul /anode change / engine service but scratch my head as to what to do next .... she is creating a bit of interest , but other than a completely stupid offer nothing much happening out there ... there is a flip side to this for me , as I am also in the market for a blue water yacht , so what happens to me I have to pass that hit onto the next seller ....

 

[jordanbasset]

Some people are realistic in what they ask for their boats, others are not. We sold our boat , a Bavaria 38 within a couple of weeks as I believe we priced it correctly.
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?449744-Boat-prices/page3#60QTq8IsgDeLt5UG.99

So how do you go about selling and pricing a boat ? I looked at the asking prices for same boat and year on the market , undercut them by roughly 5 to 6k , then with mine quite kitted up ie :- full set of sails , AIS transducer folding prop etc what else can you do ? I have now given her the yearly lift and antifoul /anode change / engine service but scratch my head as to what to do next .... she is creating a bit of interest , but other than a completely stupid offer nothing much happening out there ... there is a flip side to this for me , as I am also in the market for a blue water yacht , so what happens to me I have to pass that hit onto the next seller ....

It is a good boat that looks well presented and looking at other like boats on sale competitively priced. Do not know how long you have had it for sale, but if it is a few months then I would drop drop the price, hard as it is to accept, it is a buyers market. As you suggest you will be in a similar strong position when you come to buy your next boat.

If it is only a couple of months since you put her on the market then perhaps Spring will bring more interest, not that easy to sell over the winter. Alternative is to carry on using her of course and put your blue water boat on hold, all depends on how wedded to the idea you are.

 

[Tranona]

Some people are realistic in what they ask for their boats, others are not. We sold our boat , a Bavaria 38 within a couple of weeks as I believe we priced it correctly.
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?449744-Boat-prices/page3#60QTq8IsgDeLt5UG.99

So how do you go about selling and pricing a boat ? I looked at the asking prices for same boat and year on the market , undercut them by roughly 5 to 6k , then with mine quite kitted up ie :- full set of sails , AIS transducer folding prop etc what else can you do ? I have now given her the yearly lift and antifoul /anode change / engine service but scratch my head as to what to do next .... she is creating a bit of interest , but other than a completely stupid offer nothing much happening out there ... there is a flip side to this for me , as I am also in the market for a blue water yacht , so what happens to me I have to pass that hit onto the next seller ....

See my earlier post about my Bavaria 37. I first put it on the market with an asking price of £51k based on the previous 3 actual sales of the same model which were all well over £50k. (Ancasta will have the latest data for your model). Only 3 viewings in 9 months and no offers. Next sale I know of was closer to £40k and boat had been on the market for longer than mine. As you see I did a part exchange to break the cycle - appreciate not suitable for you. Boat has just sold, 18 months after first going on the market.

The reality is that the market is awash with good boats like yours and mine, but the buyers are few. There is often not a rational explanation why a buyer chooses one boat rather than another - as you see often from potential buyers posting here, indecision is common!

The real challenge is not finding people to look at the boat, but converting interest into an acceptable offer, and there is no magic bullet for that.

 

[Jock89]

Thats always been the case. Did an exercise 15 years back phoning up all the private ads for a Prout Snowgoose that had appeared in the previous 2 years worth of YBW. Surprisingly everyone was willing to talk. But when I looked at the results it was clear that less than half of the boats advertised had sold, and most all of those that had sold were advertised at the lower price range. One guy had had his boat for sale for 3 years and in that time had raised his price by 10k. Was still not willing to bend.

Yes, I did a similiar thing when I started to 'assess the market', in preparation for choosing a good yacht.
From the brokerage & private ad's in magazines I'd cut out yachts that were on my short list & file them. Meantime I was touring the country looking at the condition of these same yachts.
I did this for about 3 years, monitoring these same boats, while I was still saving up, & at the end of the 3 years the same boats were still for sale. One pristine example which was the highest asking price of them all, came down slowly over the years from £55K, then £50K, then £45K, & in the 3rd year £40K. If he did in fact sell her, it would have been for something less than that.
If he'd accepted my very reasonable offer in the 1st place he'd have sold her straightaway & been able to utilize the funds immediately.

There's an upper & lower limit for every breed of yacht, & it doesn't matter if an owner has spent 10's of thousands on his boat, invested thousands of hours in improvements & fettling over the years etc, etc...., & emotional attachments don't count either.....she's only worth what people will pay, within that narrow band.
e.g...You could spend £100,000 on your council house but it's still just a council house & although you may have increased its value a little bit you'll never get the money back.
A broker told me early on in my search that his single biggest problem selling boats was the unrealistic expectations of the owners.

 

[Toutvabien]

Speaking to brokers last year when helping friends to buy their first serious cruising yacht I too heard about the difficulties in getting owners to understand that the boat that they paid a lot of money for a few years ago is now worth an awful lot less.

We looked at quite a few boats and explored prices on three with owners and brokers. Of the three that we we were serious about, but owners refused to negotiate, two are still for sale and have had significant reductions in asking price to a level that would bring them within 10-15% of what we were offering a year ago.

It is obviously hard for owners to take such a financial hit, but as others have pointed out failing to understand what the boat is really likely to sell for results in significant expenditure in storage and basic maintenance. It seems to me that it is worth buying the boat that you really want and looking after it for as long as possible.

 

[Koeketiene]

The reality is that the market is awash with good boats like yours and mine, but the buyers are few. There is often not a rational explanation why a buyer chooses one boat rather than another - as you see often from potential buyers posting here, indecision is common!

1. Buyers are fewer than pre 2008. And despite government protestations to the contrary, I think it will be a while yet before people have enough dosh to spend it on an depreciating luxury.
2. All this talk of a 'buyers market' is not helping sales. The few punters with cash to spend are ever more hesitant to spend it as they believe the a better deal could be just around the corner.

Yacht sales are in the doldrums - nothing much is happening.

 

[Koeketiene]

It seems to me that it is worth buying the boat that you really want and looking after it for as long as possible.

+1 :encouragement:

 

[jonic]

Yacht sales are in the doldrums - nothing much is happening.

Not here :encouragement:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1179972122031885.1073741829.540257116003392&type=3

https://www.facebook.com/JohnRodriguezYachts/posts/1190712874291143


Two more added since then, but we have been working hard with owners and pricing realistically.

Yachtworld have just released the figures for the average time for a sale in Europe (for yachtworld listed sailing yachts) and it is currently 350 days.