Boat Insurance ....

[Koeketiene]

IIRC when Barry owned Y Yacht, he had to open an EU subsidiary to continue insuring .EU resident's boats after Brexit. Maybe Topsail have continued after buying Y Yacht?

My previous yacht insurance was with Y-Yacht.
When they were sold to Topsail I had to make alternative arrangements (boat kept permanently in France).

 

[Graham376]

My previous yacht insurance was with Y-Yacht.
When they were sold to Topsail I had to make alternative arrangements (boat kept permanently in France).

IIRC my policy with Y was underwritten by Amlin and when renewal became due via Topsail, despite many years fully comp with no claims, they would only offer third party with no wreck removal or pollution. Still with Topsail but N & G. Several others wouldn't quote for mooring in Portugal 12/12.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Well, Pants have quoted for my prospective purchase, a 42ft AWB from 2015 ..... €1700 for fully comp .... yikes!

 

[billskip]

Well, Pants have quoted for my prospective purchase, a 42ft AWB from 2015 ..... €1700 for fully comp .... yikes!

What are you expecting to be an acceptable price? With insurance generally going ballistic on all other fronts, it may be considered reasonable in comparison to others....dread to think what JFM will pay....

 

[Baggywrinkle]

What are you expecting to be an acceptable price? With insurance generally going ballistic on all other fronts, it may be considered reasonable in comparison to others....dread to think what JFM will pay....

I have no idea if that's good or bad, but insurance for my VW Camper, which is far more likely to get written off, is about 8% of its replacement value per year, the quote is around 11-12% .... I was hoping for 9%

My last boat was cheaper but was around 9% of insured value.

..... whatever it is I'll obviously have to pay it, just would have prefered to retain a few more beer tokens.

 

[billskip]

I have no idea if that's good or bad, but insurance for my VW Camper, which is far more likely to get written off, is about 8% of its replacement value per year, the quote is around 11-12% .... I was hoping for 9%

My last boat was cheaper but was around 9% of insured value.

..... whatever it is I'll obviously have to pay it, just would have prefered to retain a few more beer tokens.

Yes these things hurt, but when you hit on one you will accept at least it won't be increasing while your thinking and searching.

 

[Tranona]

I have no idea if that's good or bad, but insurance for my VW Camper, which is far more likely to get written off, is about 8% of its replacement value per year, the quote is around 11-12% .... I was hoping for 9%

My last boat was cheaper but was around 9% of insured value.

..... whatever it is I'll obviously have to pay it, just would have prefered to retain a few more beer tokens.

%age of insured value is a rather a meaningless measure as it is simply the premium divided by the value expressed as a %age. It is not used to determine the premium as that is made up of the third party risk and the risk of damage however caused to the boat. These 2 elements vary according to the location, type of use and owner experience - all the things you put on the proposal form and details of cover required. The quote you have is on the expensive end because I expect the cover is better than others. Third party tends to be a fixed premium for "average" boats of a particular type and the hull and machinery generally is lower in 5age terms as the value rises. This is because most claims are small and vary very little in relation to value of the boat

An example when I owned 2 boats with similar usage and cover, the lower value (£13k) boat cost £200 (approx 1.5%) and the other £100k cost £550 (0.55%) My current boat £36k cost £290 (0.53).

The only valid comparisons are similar policies from alternate providers - absolute numbers - no need to turn into a %age I had 4 quotes for my current boat . Next one up was £360 and the other 2 around $450. all policies virtually identical.

 

[dunedin]

I have no idea if that's good or bad, but insurance for my VW Camper, which is far more likely to get written off, is about 8% of its replacement value per year, the quote is around 11-12% .... I was hoping for 9%

My last boat was cheaper but was around 9% of insured value.

..... whatever it is I'll obviously have to pay it, just would have prefered to retain a few more beer tokens.

Your 2015 43 foot boat must have been a bargain if a €1,700 premium is 11-12% of value. Was the boat around €20k

 

[billskip]

Your 2015 43 foot boat must have been a bargain if a €1,700 premium is 11-12% of value. Was the boat around €20k

Even at 9% it puts boat value at around 16k, cant be many 43's in working condition for that...especially as fully comp ins.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Your 2015 43 foot boat must have been a bargain if a €1,700 premium is 11-12% of value. Was the boat around €20k

My mistake ... brain fade ... divide by 10. 1.1% - 1.2% ... somehow it doesn't feel so bad now

 

[Zing]

My mistake ... brain fade ... divide by 10. 1.1% - 1.2% ... somehow it doesn't feel so bad now

So your quote was €1,700 for about €190,000 value fully comp? Not terrible. My quote was 3%. Too much. I insured 3rd party instead. Way less less than 3% of yachts sink/yr, like ten times less min. Robbin gits.

 

[Sandy]

... computer says no. Anyone on here resident in Europe but insured in the U.K.? If so which insurer?

Have you attempted to lift a telephone and speak to a human? Computers are programmed to deal with the day to day business. They cannot deal with the unusual, that is still up to humans.

When speaking to a human you may find that they can insure you. Always worth a try.

 

[billskip]

Have you attempted to lift a telephone and speak to a human? Computers are programmed to deal with the day to day business. They cannot deal with the unusual, that is still up to humans.

When speaking to a human you may find that they can insure you. Always worth a try.

It's a good Idea, worth a try but I find the human on the other end ....err...looks at a computer...and guess what the computer says.....

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Have you attempted to lift a telephone and speak to a human? Computers are programmed to deal with the day to day business. They cannot deal with the unusual, that is still up to humans.

When speaking to a human you may find that they can insure you. Always worth a try.

Not yet, but I'll get there ... this is just a way of estimating the running costs before purchase .... the choice is an 40-42 ft AWB or the next size up 43-45 ft .... prices don't differ that much, and marina fees are around €500 a year higher which is not too bad.

But ..... while bigger boats offer more space, they are more unwieldy, heavier, and everythig ends up costing more, I want to quantify how much more before taking the plunge.

Next week I'm in Thailand trying a Sun Odyssey 409 as it, along with a 419 or an Oceanis 41/41.1 are the frontrunners in the 40-42ft range. Will see how it goes.

 

[Sandy]

It's a good Idea, worth a try but I find the human on the other end ....err...looks at a computer...and guess what the computer says.....

Well, it worked for me.

 

[doris]

Not yet, but I'll get there ... this is just a way of estimating the running costs before purchase .... the choice is an 40-42 ft AWB or the next size up 43-45 ft .... prices don't differ that much, and marina fees are around €500 a year higher which is not too bad.

But ..... while bigger boats offer more space, they are more unwieldy, heavier, and everythig ends up costing more, I want to quantify how much more before taking the plunge.

Next week I'm in Thailand trying a Sun Odyssey 409 as it, along with a 419 or an Oceanis 41/41.1 are the frontrunners in the 40-42ft range. Will see how it goes.

Jeanneau 409, a top choice

 

[BoatBouy]

Owning a boat in the Med as a British citizen has got more complicated, insurance is just one of many issues that don't work like they used to.

This forum is a great way to get first-hand information from other yacht owners in similar situations, you'll find the same kind of discussion about cruising the Med on Noonsite and other non-EU boating forums, specifically about Schengen, insurance, qualifications, VAT/TA and a host of other issues with visiting Europe - so it's not about Brexit per se, it's about adjusting to the realities of being a 3rd country.

... I may end up having to find an EU insurer, even though I have had a UK one for 12 years - I just want to continue to have a boat flying the red ensign in my cruising ground in the eastern Med - on the UK ships register with an RYA issued sail number, RYA qualifications, RYA issued ICC, OFCOM Radio licence, and a U.K. insurer ... is that too much to ask?

Just to add, under the Flaggenrechtsgesetz "The federal flag must be carried by all merchant ships and other ships intended for seafaring (seagoing vessels) whose owners are German and have their residence within the scope of the Basic Law.".

Only private pleasure vessels over 15m are required to go onto the main Ships Register (the equivalent of Part 1) smaller vessels can get a Flag Certificate which is not proof of title (equivalent of Part 3). I'm not sure whether the obligation in the Flaggenrechtsgesetz on German citizens resident in Germany to fly the German flag only applies to vessels on the Ships Register or smaller vessels too. Might be worth speaking to a local sailing organisation in Germany about this.

In any event would it not be more sensible, if resident in the EU and having a VAT paid boat, to flag it in the EU to avoid confusion with local officialdom over the boat's status. Granted you would have to get some German qualifications to navigate the boat but in the long run it might be simpler.

 

[billskip]

Granted you would have to get some German qualifications to navigate

That I think is one of the general problems along with other regulations that are not so stringent under UK flag.
No doubt if money can be made the UK will up their game.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I don't think you would need any other qualifications if you have an ICC.

 

[billskip]

I don't think you would need any other qualifications if you have an ICC.

I dont know if it stops there, although today maybe so, and arguing your rights can be a little daunting.
The RYA ICC is accepted now in Spain, but there are some funny noises if you are resident and occupy the boat even if it is UK flag and you are not the owner.
I wouldn't want to be challenged no matter what Tranona says the legality is.