Boat Insurance ....

[Baggywrinkle]

Last boat was flagged and insured in the U.K. moored in Croatia - Insured for 12 years by a U.K. insurance company .... I have been resident in Germany for 24 years and hold dual citizenship U.K./German

Sold the last boat about 2 years ago, finally looks like I'm in the market for a replacement and am trying to get quotes for insurance.

Wanted to renew with my previous insurer .... but lucked out.



... computer says no. Anyone on here resident in Europe but insured in the U.K.? If so which insurer?

I want to keep Registration, Qualifications, Insurance, VHF etc. all from one country if possible.

 

[Tranona]

It is a question of their licence and UK insurers do not seem to have approval to offer products to any other than UK residents. However many are in fact part of international groups and use the same underwriters. There is no reason why the insurer needs to be in the same state as registration or your qualifications. Registration and communications are however linked. It is you and your chattels) that is being insured not the boat itself.

 

[ashtead]

Yes it’s location of risk rules and where the insurer is authorised . With real property it’s simple as a property rarely moves jurisdiction
So some types eg travel insurance when sold as a retail product as opposed to group covers need to be written by a uk insurer or a third country branch of a Foreign insurer . So a uk or Gibraltar insurer can insure uk customers . If you see a foreign named insurer like Axa they have a uk authorised company , likewise Allianz etc. if they are not a uk company they can now be a third country branch of say an EU or other non uk insurer. Overlaid with all this for the eu is ensuring customer understands cover and hence language. There are specialist brokers to cover real property unowned by ukresidents abroad but wording is in English but the insurer has to be licenced to cover risks in Spain . My view is you need a German insurer so call your local Allianz office or a local marine broker in Germany
You don’t say name of your last insurer though

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Yes it’s location of risk rules and where the insurer is authorised . With real property it’s simple as a property rarely moves jurisdiction
So some types eg travel insurance when sold as a retail product as opposed to group covers need to be written by a uk insurer or a third country branch of a Foreign insurer . So a uk or Gibraltar insurer can insure uk customers . If you see a foreign named insurer like Axa they have a uk authorised company , likewise Allianz etc. if they are not a uk company they can now be a third country branch of say an EU or other non uk insurer. Overlaid with all this for the eu is ensuring customer understands cover and hence language. There are specialist brokers to cover real property unowned by ukresidents abroad but wording is in English but the insurer has to be licenced to cover risks in Spain . My view is you need a German insurer so call your local Allianz office or a local marine broker in Germany
You don’t say name of your last insurer though

Last insurer was a very well known British insurer who I would rather not name, they insured me even post-B-Day for a boat in the Med. That was up until the start of 2022. Now they won't even quote - doesn't seem to be the location of the boat that is the problem, more the residency of the owner.

 

[Tranona]

Last insurer was a very well known British insurer who I would rather not name, they insured me even post-B-Day for a boat in the Med. That was up until the start of 2022. Now they won't even quote - doesn't seem to be the location of the boat that is the problem, more the residency of the owner.

Pretty sure not directly due to Brexit but to do with the regulating bodies. UK insurers will insure boats owned by UK residents that are kept and used outside the UK. The location is only relevant in setting the premium as risk varies from location to location and type of sailing.

 

[Graham376]

Pretty sure not directly due to Brexit but to do with the regulating bodies. UK insurers will insure boats owned by UK residents that are kept and used outside the UK. The location is only relevant in setting the premium as risk varies from location to location and type of sailing.

IIRC when Barry owned Y Yacht, he had to open an EU subsidiary to continue insuring .EU resident's boats after Brexit. Maybe Topsail have continued after buying Y Yacht?

 

[PlanB]

From my experiences, it is the residency of the owner - insurance for boats and cars is the same.
Since you have dual UK nationality, can you not come up with a UK address which might get round it.
I'm UK resident.
My boat insurance was registered to my UK address (insurers knew boat was in commission abroad), but I had a real problem with a Spanish registered car, as I wasn't resident in Spain - fancy footwork involved.

 

[Graham376]

From my experiences, it is the residency of the owner - insurance for boats and cars is the same.
Since you have dual UK nationality, can you not come up with a UK address which might get round it.
I'm UK resident.
My boat insurance was registered to my UK address (insurers knew boat was in commission abroad), but I had a real problem with a Spanish registered car, as I wasn't resident in Spain - fancy footwork involved.

That's what we've found. With our dual residence, UK house, car and boat (based in Portugal) are all insured in UK. and broker has never asked why boat is insured for 12 months in service. Apartment and car here, insured in Portugal. Portuguese broker we use said he couldn't get cover for UK flagged boat although I'm told others have managed it via other brokers.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Pretty sure not directly due to Brexit but to do with the regulating bodies. UK insurers will insure boats owned by UK residents that are kept and used outside the UK. The location is only relevant in setting the premium as risk varies from location to location and type of sailing.

The previous UK based insurance company had no problem insuring me with German residence and UK flagged boat in the med for the 12 years I owned it - right from day 1.

Post B-Day they changed from dealing in EURs to GBPs but continued to renew - it caused minor issues with the marina as they wanted to see 3rd party liability figures in EURs but a discussion over exchange rates and currencies caused them to reluctantly accept.

Now the UK company will no longer quote due to my residency - which hasn't changed in 24 years.

I think it is due to EU Passporting and Equivalence rules combined with the end of the transition period ... https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2017/599267/EPRS_BRI(2017)599267_EN.pdf

For 3rd countries some services can still be offered in the EU without the Passporting attached to membership of the single market, as long as there is Equivalence (which allows third countries to ask for an assessment of equivalence of their regulatory system with that of the European Union).
If granted they can still trade but as the point of the B-Word was to allow diversification from EU regulatory systems, this may well be the root cause, cutting UK service providers out of the EU.

 

[B27]

Stop whining about Brexit.
If the EU is so great, find an EU company to deal with.

 

[dunedin]

Stop whining about Brexit.
If the EU is so great, find an EU company to deal with.

There is a difference between what you call “whinning” and explaining the reasons why the OP has not been able to get insurance, to assist him to find an insurer which can cover his boat insurance needs. This is very relevant for a boat forum.

 

[Tranona]

Stop whining about Brexit.
If the EU is so great, find an EU company to deal with.

Can't see how you can read any "whining" into a perfectly valid question.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Stop whining about Brexit.
If the EU is so great, find an EU company to deal with.

Owning a boat in the Med as a British citizen has got more complicated, insurance is just one of many issues that don't work like they used to.

This forum is a great way to get first-hand information from other yacht owners in similar situations, you'll find the same kind of discussion about cruising the Med on Noonsite and other non-EU boating forums, specifically about Schengen, insurance, qualifications, VAT/TA and a host of other issues with visiting Europe - so it's not about Brexit per se, it's about adjusting to the realities of being a 3rd country.

... I may end up having to find an EU insurer, even though I have had a UK one for 12 years - I just want to continue to have a boat flying the red ensign in my cruising ground in the eastern Med - on the UK ships register with an RYA issued sail number, RYA qualifications, RYA issued ICC, OFCOM Radio licence, and a U.K. insurer ... is that too much to ask?

 

[ashtead]

It all turns on the OP location I believe -put yourself down as a uk resident and you have the benefit of the financial services compensation scheme should your insurer go bust. The scheme doesn’t apply to foreigners . Foreign insurers as trading as a uk branch are now FCA and PRA regulated/authorised. As a German resident obtain your cover from a German insurer or another eu insurer which can passport into Germany . Passporting doesn’t exist into uk hence the issue you have encountered.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Owning a boat in the Med as a British citizen has got more complicated, insurance is just one of many issues that don't work like they used to.

This forum is a great way to get first-hand information from other yacht owners in similar situations, you'll find the same kind of discussion about cruising the Med on Noonsite and other non-EU boating forums, specifically about Schengen, insurance, qualifications, VAT/TA and a host of other issues with visiting Europe - so it's not about Brexit per se, it's about adjusting to the realities of being a 3rd country.

... I may end up having to find an EU insurer, even though I have had a UK one for 12 years - I just want to continue to have a boat flying the red ensign in my cruising ground in the eastern Med - on the UK ships register with an RYA issued sail number, RYA qualifications, RYA issued ICC, OFCOM Radio licence, and a U.K. insurer ... is that too much to ask?

Apparently yes.
The obvious but unsatisfactory answer is to use a European insurer "Pants" is one that has European offices.

 

[ashtead]

Pants is a broker not an insurer but underwriting is by insurers such as Allianz -I don’t know if in Germany Allianz provide direct cover as well as via brokers though.

 

[Tranona]

IIRC when Barry owned Y Yacht, he had to open an EU subsidiary to continue insuring .EU resident's boats after Brexit. Maybe Topsail have continued after buying Y Yacht?

The difference with Barry (apart from being a good bloke) is that he negotiated with underwriters to offer a bespoke policy under his own firms name. One of the reasons he sold out was because it was becoming difficult to do this when insurers were consolidating and simplifying their offerings. Topsail are actually just a broker offering policies from a number of insurers and Barry sold them his "book". While the policies they offer are similar coverage prices were higher and I like many others have switched - in my case to GJW for similar cover at a lower price.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

Apparently yes.
The obvious but unsatisfactory answer is to use a European insurer "Pants" is one that has European offices.

Awaiting an answer from Pants ... and I managed to get through the Topsail online quote system using a German address without a "computer says no" event so we'll see what happens.

 

[billskip]

Awaiting an answer from Pants ... and I managed to get through the Topsail online quote system using a German address without a "computer says no" event so we'll see what happens.

I hope you are successful.
Doing "fancy footwork" as suggested in an earlier post is all well and good to provide a document of insurance to the necessary authorities, however if something goes wrong and there is an investigation your piece of paper will be worthless,leaving you in a very vulnerable situation.
Ask yourself are you insuring against risk,or covering your document requirements.
Unfortunately its getting very difficult to have it both ways, Friday I paid a lawyer €70 to sign and date ( took less than 10 seconds) a document, which quite honestly I think I've wasted my money and time. Even the Spanish lawyer could not understand the UK system requirements.

 

[Baggywrinkle]

I hope you are successful.
Doing "fancy footwork" as suggested in an earlier post is all well and good to provide a document of insurance to the necessary authorities, however if something goes wrong and there is an investigation your piece of paper will be worthless,leaving you in a very vulnerable situation.
Ask yourself are you insuring against risk,or covering your document requirements.
Unfortunately its getting very difficult to have it both ways, Friday I paid a lawyer €70 to sign and date ( took less than 10 seconds) a document, which quite honestly I think I've wasted my money and time. Even the Spanish lawyer could not understand the UK system requirements.

Thanks, there is no point in having insurance if you leave the insurer grounds to refuse a claim IMO. I am filling out the quotation forms with accurate and honest information, and if they say no then it's just tough luck.

Watched all hell break loose in Marina Veruda in Pula a few years ago, a few pontoons up from my berth.

A couple of blokes had just refuelled a little aluminium dinghy and were heading back into the marina when one of them decided to have a smoke ... the boat went up and they both jumped overboard. The burning dinghy drifted into the pontoons and set a large sailing yacht on fire which burnt to the point of being a total loss ... the fire brigade took a while to arrive and turned the marina into a bubble bath putting the sailing boat fire out .... the cost for the damage and clean-up must have been eye-watering, so this was an object lesson on the need for bullet-proof insurance.