Boat in build pics (2013 Fairline Squadron 78)

[BartW]

J, remember on Match1, I found your port side dashboard (the space opposite the lower helm station) a bit "poor",
do you have other plans with this space ?

remember I have a very nice extra bedroom over there (already used 2 weeks), courtesy to JFM
moreover it can be transformed to a:
- Navigation desc
- Crew dinner table
- MapisM office
- BartW paperwork and stuff storage

 

[BartW]

It didn't occur to me to ask Cantalupi to get a special reel of higher CRI lights Wakeup. For an order of "just" 120 units I kinda assumed they wouldn't tbh. My thinking is that if I keep Match 2 for a while I'll change them all in say 2 years when 95% or whatever CRI becomes more generally avaialble. I note that 90%++ is already widely availalbe in bigger LED units intended for buildings

What is "R value" please?

what color temp did you choose ?
I saw on their site that 3000k is standard, and on special order you can get 2700K ?

 

[jfm]

If you really wanted a Princess 78 surely you could have specced bigger tanks or extra fuel tanks to give you the range you desired?
Are they not so accomodating as Fairline when it comes to customisation of their larger range?

Nope. They will do more or less zero factory customisation on a 78 (or new 82). The team at Swanwick will do plenty of mods as dealer mods, after it has left the factory, but I wouldn't want the middle of the boat ripped apart for a fuel tank (and the tank won't fit thru the master cabin door anyway...)

To be fair, there are plenty of great factory mods you can choose on princess 78/82, including fin stabs. But not more fuel

The other big unmoddable thing on Princess 78/82 is that they mount the glass patio doors further aft than Sq78. This makes for a fantastic saloon, bigger than Sq78's. But the aft cockpit is considerably smaller, about 750mm less fore-aft, to the point where you run out of room as guests board (if you have a dining table). Each to their own, but for med cruising I think Princess have this the wrong way round - you want imho big outside spaces and small inside spaces, not the other way around

Sunseeker will customise heavily/nice attitudely/creatively from Manhattan73 upwards. For example they sketched up a Y80 for me with an internal staircase to the flybridge and a modified crew cabin with a laundry plus full height door from the crew lobby into the engine room (the standard engine room door arrangement doesn't work well imho)

 

[Nautical]

Agree with you on that one J, ever walked into an engineroom with chequer plate with wet feet?.... zoom accross engine room floor, smack head on bench, see stars for about ten minutes, ouch!

 

[Nautical]

Fuel thingy.... agree again on that, just as stabs were becoming the new black on planing boats a couple of seasons ago now its biggest tanks possible, even on ORY with 10,000 litres, at Cannes everyone was asking for more, one chap confirmed why he wants all that fuel, he starts the season with a pootle at 7 knots or thereabouts to Tunisa , fills up 15000 litres at .50 cents a litre and doesn't need to fill again till end of season, reckons he cuts his fuel bill 70% over the season.

 

[jfm]

J, remember on Match1, I found your port side dashboard (the space opposite the lower helm station) a bit "poor",
do you have other plans with this space ?

remember I have a very nice extra bedroom over there (already used 2 weeks), courtesy to JFM
moreover it can be transformed to a:
- Navigation desc
- Crew dinner table
- MapisM office
- BartW paperwork and stuff storage

That's funny! I designed that space and loved it. I think it was one of the big successes on the Match1, LOL. It serves as extra galley, and with a chef + stewie on board it gave space for the stewie to make tea/coffee/drinks/set up plates without stealing the space that the chef needed. I have specified exactly the same on Match 2!

Ref your list of 4, nice stuff but I guess I don't want any of those things. I definitely dont want it used as a bedroom - that would be too "camping" imho. MapisM can get his own office (!) - I do some work on the boat but I generally do not want to go to a dedicated space to do it and prefer to be "in the crowd" even if working. For calls where I need privacy I use the master cabin which has a custom bureau (nicer than the Sq78 stnadard dressing tbale imho) that makes a great working desk with hidden printer/scanner, inverter power supplies, document storage bins under the window, etc. This is my office, though I hardly ever use it as an office. I'll have same design in Match 2 (in walnut, with silver on the window panel) with some small tweak improvements learned from Match1

 

[jfm]

Fuel thingy.... agree again on that, just as stabs were becoming the new black on planing boats a couple of seasons ago now its biggest tanks possible, even on ORY with 10,000 litres, at Cannes everyone was asking for more, one chap confirmed why he wants all that fuel, he starts the season with a pootle at 7 knots or thereabouts to Tunisa , fills up 15000 litres at .50 cents a litre and doesn't need to fill again till end of season, reckons he cuts his fuel bill 70% over the season.

Haha that's customers for you. Truth is, a boat geek customer is never satisfied, and stretching the boatbuilder is part of the fun. Fairline do a Sq78 with stnadard 6000litres and I stretch them to 8k. You do an ORY with 10,000litres and customer wants 15k. If you'd only offered 7k litres to start with he'd have been happy with 10k . But you're right, long range is the new black.

 

[David of Essex]

You are a star

John how you manage to answer this post is a tribute in it’s self, I have trouble keeping up with just reading them. Thanks, great post and a good time with the winter coming on. Have you considered fibre optic lightning in one area (http://www.unlimitedlight.com/vmchk/Star-Ceiling-Kits/SS112+1-Star-Ceiling-Kit.html) you can have a constellation and even have a star named after yourself or boat which would be a fitting idea?
David

 

[jfm]

what color temp did you choose ?
I saw on their site that 3000k is standard, and on special order you can get 2700K ?

At the moment BartW the order is 3000k. I wanted a slightly white look, no yellow-ness, so at the "cool" end of the range of colours that would generally be called "warm" colours, if you see what I mean. What temps have you tried on BA? Do you reckon I've made a mistake here?

 

[jfm]

John how you manage to answer this post is a tribute in it’s self, I have trouble keeping up with just reading them. Thanks, great post and a good time with the winter coming on. Have you considered fibre optic lightning in one area (http://www.unlimitedlight.com/vmchk/Star-Ceiling-Kits/SS112+1-Star-Ceiling-Kit.html) you can have a constellation and even have a star named after yourself or boat which would be a fitting idea?
David

Haha thanks David for that link. I like those. TCM fitted a set in his London flat a few years ago, I remember. Tbh I have run out of customisation capacity with fairline (see post #55 above), which isn't a complaint, they have a business to run and other cuistomers who need their boats delivered on time, but it is a reality. Assuming I keep this boat a bit longer, I'll look at fitting these myself as a project after delivery. Would look good in one area eg over bed or dining table - thanks for the link!

 

[wakeup]

Thanks Wakeup (for forum readers who don't know, Wakeup is seriously knowledgeable on LED lighting and his CV includes being CEO of a listed LED light engine manufacturer). The lights on Match2 will be "cantalupi Desert CLL" (hardly worth looking up btw; Cantalupi's website aint very user friendly) and these are high quality and caged etc

It didn't occur to me to ask Cantalupi to get a special reel of higher CRI lights Wakeup. For an order of "just" 120 units I kinda assumed they wouldn't tbh. My thinking is that if I keep Match 2 for a while I'll change them all in say 2 years when 95% or whatever CRI becomes more generally avaialble. I note that 90%++ is already widely availalbe in bigger LED units intended for buildings

What is "R value" please?

I meant to say 'why' can't Cantalupi ask their suppliers for 90+ cri chips? LED chips come on 500 piece rolls for the pick and place machines. You could ask for a higher cri binned reel. My guess is that with you ordering 110+ fixtures I wouldn't mind betting that each luminaire uses 3 to 5 chips each so one good reel should do it. Probably would add a few quid per fixture to the cost though. R value for CRI is gross short hand for the red/orange contribution. Some manufacturers manipulate their data/product to present hi cir value though have a poor red/amber contribution.

 

[jfm]

I think the camera is a great idea. I forgot to post this story...

Yup A+K, I found your anchor sometimes needs a push out of the roller. Here is the proposed camera set up for Match 2. I've done a test set up with a Garmin camera/battery/small screen and it works well. Will work well I'm hoping, but I'll post video on her when it is all set up and running. If it works it will be retrofittable to most boats incl yours - the camera is planted on the hull where red blob is, no special bracket or anything. Just a tricky cable running job. Credit/intellectual property in this idea goes to Hurricane - he suggested it on the Match1 thread and I hadn't seen the idea before then

 

[jfm]

I converted my internal lighting to LED (30No.) buying good quality modules, I have not noticed any issues, I use a small WiFi router on the boat to communicate with the marina network which I access with my iPhone and iPad and have not noticed any problems with these, my Seatalk or NMEA systems.

Many commercial office lighting installations now use LED Luminaires, but I accept they will not have such critical electronics in close proximity, my current view (no pun intended) then is that assuming you do not buy cheap unstabilised LED sources, which I'm certain JFM will have taken advice on and avoided, I don't believe there should be any issues. It would be interesting to know if anyone else has heard of anyone experiencing problems in this regard. I'm converting my navigation lights too next visit.....

Must say I am delighted with the light level, colour rendition (I had some reservations), longevity and reduced current draw.

Also, the white caulking is growing on me, I like different.......

That's all encouraging to hear, thanks. The reduced current draw is a big deal becuase at anchor in the evening with genset off (for peace and quiet) the main current draw on a boat is halogen lighting. You could on a csutom boat fit extra batteries but the weight and space issues make that much less attractive than fitting all-LED lighting.
I'll post pics of white caulk and hopefully persuade some people about it!

 

[MapisM]

master cabin which has a custom bureau (nicer than the Sq78 stnadard dressing tbale imho) that makes a great working desk with hidden printer/scanner, inverter power supplies, document storage bins under the window, etc.

Lovely office indeed, way better environment than anything in the City!
Though I must say that what I loved most of "my" BA office was the position, right in front of the p/house windshield.
Not to mention the leather quality, which felt as new even if 20 yo...
Best seat in the house, imho.

Back to the point, an epic thread as usually, J.
See? I told you that it was pointless to argue about principles, when the VdV thread was posted...
...You almost reached in 2 days the same number of posts which that thread reached in 2 months.
That's a clear cut case of c'est le ton qui fait la musique, if you see what I mean!
With all due respect for the VdV build thread, which I also follow and I find interesting, anyway.

Re. caulking, I'm with Vas when he said "put me for a no".
Or better said, put me for a "over my dead body", particularly after having mixed the sacred with the profane (wooden Rivas and their 20 layers of varnish vs. Wally-esque decks)...
Jokes aside, I've seen some white caulked decks, and I really don't like them on a boat (they rather have their place in some houses imho, though with wood inserts rather than caulking, of course).
You know, I can't help thinking that they don't belong to proper boats.
Twizzle being one of the few exceptions that prove the rule - and I bet that at RH they advised against it, anyway...

Then again, we luddites do not expect you futurist folks to understand us.
Don't get me started on "curved furniture and panels deleted and replaced by squared shapes", just as another example...

 

[scubaman]

With quite a lot of very dark gloss wenge panels Chris and uber dark wood floors, so the walnut will actually be the light wood on this boat . It has been thought out at great length and I'm hoping it'll look fab when the whole thing down to the cushions and rugs is put together!

A lot of the fabrics will be from Romo's zinc collection (click on penthouse and nomad, frexample, with some purples too. "Manhattan nightclub" is the design brief )

She is going to look fabulous! White caulking would work perfrectly with those, imho. I'd even be tempted to go for white upholsteries although the grey is infinitely more practical, of course.

Just a thought; sunbrella Silver and Linen Silver looked interesting on the web, but i couldn't get a hold of a sample at the time to see how they looked live. Might work well with white caulking & the rest.

 

[John100156]

At the moment BartW the order is 3000k. I wanted a slightly white look, no yellow-ness, so at the "cool" end of the range of colours that would generally be called "warm" colours, if you see what I mean. What temps have you tried on BA? Do you reckon I've made a mistake here?

I like 3000k!

For those that are not familiar with the terms (I know lighting is a topic that interests many boaters now that we have these fantastic new LED light sources available) some brief explanations given below. Trust me lighting design and development is a very complex field, so it’s great to know we have experts like 'wakeup' to hand to advise us. I myself have been designing lighting systems as a Consultant for over 30 years, to some of our top scientific and medical research Universities and pharmaceutical Companies, so I know a bit about the subject but not from a manufacturing perspective, but as we have seen, we have people on board for that too!

CRI: The Colour Rendering Index (CRI) was developed in the 60’s and was largely designed to deal with the then new improvements in fluorescent lamps. However, the recent emergence of LEDs into mainstream lighting applications has shown up some of the weaknesses in the CRI system and an alternative system known as the Colour Quality Scale (CQS) has been developed. Whilst at present, CQS does not have the same worldwide acceptance as CRI it does provide a very useful guide that works well with most light sources and is fine for use when designing systems for boats IMO. However, it should be noted that there is currently a lot of interest in this field and no conclusion has yet been reached as to which method to adopt – it would be interesting to get ***** opinion on this as an expert in the field……!

R Values: The CIE published the method to calculate CRI as above. They also put forward two other what they term ‘metrics’, Ra8 which is based on the assessment of light source performance on eight colour samples and Ra14 which is based on 14 colour samples. The most commonly used version is Ra8. The approximate rendering of the colours used are as below, the top row colours are those used for the calculation of Ra8, the bottom row gives the additional colours that are used in the calculation of Ra14:

Colour Temperature: You often hear colour temps quoted, you may also find the following chart of interest:

Warm = Below 3300k
Intermediate = Between 3300k to 5300k
Cool = Above 5300k

Enough from me on lighting – JFM, the advice you have received from 'wakeup' makes sense to me, its worth a try, but IMHO you have nothing to worry about and have made a very good choice!

 

[wakeup]

I like 3000k!

For those that are not familiar with the terms (I know lighting is a topic that interests many boaters now that we have these fantastic new LED light sources available) some brief explanations given below. Trust me lighting design and development is a very complex field, so it’s great to know we have experts like 'wakeup' to hand to advise us. I myself have been designing lighting systems as a Consultant for over 30 years, to some of our top scientific and medical research Universities and pharmaceutical Companies, so I know a bit about the subject but not from a manufacturing perspective, but as we have seen, we have people on board for that too!

CRI: The Colour Rendering Index (CRI) was developed in the 60’s and was largely designed to deal with the then new improvements in fluorescent lamps. However, the recent emergence of LEDs into mainstream lighting applications has shown up some of the weaknesses in the CRI system and an alternative system known as the Colour Quality Scale (CQS) has been developed. Whilst at present, CQS does not have the same worldwide acceptance as CRI it does provide a very useful guide that works well with most light sources and is fine for use when designing systems for boats IMO. However, it should be noted that there is currently a lot of interest in this field and no conclusion has yet been reached as to which method to adopt – it would be interesting to get ***** opinion on this as an expert in the field……!

R Values: The CIE published the method to calculate CRI as above. They also put forward two other what they term ‘metrics’, Ra8 which is based on the assessment of light source performance on eight colour samples and Ra14 which is based on 14 colour samples. The most commonly used version is Ra8. The approximate rendering of the colours used are as below, the top row colours are those used for the calculation of Ra8, the bottom row gives the additional colours that are used in the calculation of Ra14:

Colour Temperature: You often hear colour temps quoted, you may also find the following chart of interest:

Warm = Below 3300k
Intermediate = Between 3300k to 5300k
Cool = Above 5300k

Enough from me on lighting – JFM, the advice you have received from 'wakeup' makes sense to me, its worth a try, but IMHO you have nothing to worry about and have made a very good choice!

As I said, my version was gross shorthand for the above

It seems we have a lighting designer and chip guys on here. We should be building forum lights . I've already brought together engineering talent and commercial talent behind Lumishore.

 

[vas]

one more vote for 3K,

that's the ones I use and have already converted half a dozen 70ies luminaires to them. Work brilliantly and they are what they officially call "daylight", which is what you really really want in the Med in the evening

V.

 

[DAKA]

Not at all fed up with your threads.......please keep posting lots of photos

It would be much easier to have several mini threads to cover each topic IMHO but your thread, your choice.

dont you think the white makes the clean teak look gufty, almost everything looks dirty at the side of white, where most things (ie teak) look clean at the side of black .

I wonder if mirror glass in the hull windows would make your boat look to shine more and not impact on the beautifully designed hull so much .

 

[jfm]

John100156 and Wakeup - thanks for the input. It's great that there is such tech knowledge on this forum. Lighting colour and "feel" is complex stuff when you get into the science of it, I can see. I'll be very happy to report back on how these Cantalupis perform on Match2 next year, or better still you can hopefully see them working yourselves and advise further