Blue ensign dick'ed

[Serin]

I notice that in the same thread I wrote:

At that point a common reaction is to express the opinion that the class system must still be alive and well in the UK.​

​

I've fielded those enquiries from time to time but never had the reaction you describe. Just more evidence of British eccentricity and enjoyment of tradition - something many other nations share. You try asking an American marine the meaning of all the features of his dress uniform...... I think it rather depends what spin you (plural) put on it.

 

[Serin]

So he was a gallant man but is now dead. Why exactly should someone who has joined the club recently get the "honour" of flying a Blue Ensign? Because he has paid his membership?

That's the nub of the matter. The assumption that this is "an honour". It isn't.

 

[Colvic Watson]

So he was a gallant man but is now dead. Why exactly should someone who has joined the club recently get the "honour" of flying a Blue Ensign? Because he has paid his membership?

It isn't an honour it's a quirk and quirks are very British and fun. Everything we need to know about the prevailing view of ensigns is in this thread title - somehow he's different because the boat had a blue flag. Honestly if anyone is bothered by it then buy a blue ensign, £3 on ebay. You won't become a better or worse boat driver but everyone's view of you will change because your flag has changed colour, only the British could manage that

 

[Robin]

So he was a gallant man but is now dead. Why exactly should someone who has joined the club recently get the "honour" of flying a Blue Ensign? Because he has paid his membership?

Yes, because the YC HAD that privilege granted to it. THe club rules are that the member must own a British registered vessel and have a warrant signed by the club giving permission to fly the defaced blue YC ensign but only if the YC burgeee is also worn. Se my earlier reply too, I used mine mostly in local waters and usually only if in company with other members, at other times and especially offshore, opting to fly a red ensign to save wearing out the YC one I had a smaller, cheaper YC burgee for offshore too also 'cos the bigger ones were expensive to replace My old ensign is proudly hung now on our land based wall but the burgees are still in use.

NO snobbery or oneupmanship involved at all just a first rate YC that I originally joined simply because many existing sailing friends were already members and we often cruised together or wound up in the same places, it also allowed me a YC mooring and eventually a very nice marina berth in a prime location, and one that I could afford. But I should have chosen to ignore my friends, pay more for moorings and winter layups ashore and thus avoid the stupid snide remarks from the hoi polloi over what ensign I fly. Like I also said in an earlier reply I now fly the Stars and Stripes off the back, knock that one and expect a cruise missile reply or a friendly call from the men in black!

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

So he was a gallant man but is now dead. Why exactly should someone who has joined the club recently get the "honour" of flying a Blue Ensign? Because he has paid his membership?

It's not an "honour" but a warrented permission under certain conditions-nothing else except in the eye of the flyer or the observer if they are so inclined! I could obtain a warrant and fly a "blue" but much prefer to display the burgee of my home Club of which I have been a member of for over 60 years and a red duster. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

This subject has come up many times over the years and always results in disagreement. Sniggering at ensigns indicates an unconscious sense of superiority:
Quote -
"The counterpart of an inferiority complex, a "superiority complex" is a psychological defense mechanism in which a person's feelings of superiority counter or conceal his or her feelings of inferiority." - Wikipedia

too true!

 

[Resolution]

I love this thread! I think it's brilliant that some people can fly special flags and that some can't, it's so wonderfully British. I don't sneer or carp or belittle anyone's choice of ensign and I love that someone said the harbourmaster would sort me out for flying an incorrect ensign - one chap even suggested a prosecution was a possibility. Since the thread started I've bought two new ones off ebay, this is my latest

And I love that it's legal to fly it, apparently the 'old' ensigns weren't retired when the good-old-red-duster was brought in. I also secretly hope that it is a tiny bit illegal. I did fly an undefaced blue for a couple of years to see what it felt like but I kept getting knowing looks and the occasional wink from gentlemen of a certain age; I explained that I'd been a Chief Petty Officer in the school CCF and that we all serve our country, in my case by defending the school from soviet attack using a Lee Enfield .303 and some blank drill rounds. I baulk at flying the white ensign, mainly because it seems so white captains hat and matching anchor motif scarf.

I hope that anyone who is offended by my choice of ensign will feel free to come aboard and berate me for it, I shall offer them a slug of scotch to placate them and change the flag to the pink pirate flag - which the children prefer anyway.

Quite colourful if a bit straight and narrow. Please do share with us your explanation (and if you don't have one yet you certainly need to start working one up) of who the flag represents. To my untutored eye there seems to be a Baltic feel about it, so maybe a WWI Latvian MTB squadron??

 

[JumbleDuck]

Totally irrelevant, it was recognition for the Yacht clubs in general not just for particular individuals.

True. You may not have noticed that I was replying to the comment

I have often seen the statement "the red duster is good enough for me!", with references to pride in the achievements of the merchant service during the wars. Fair enough, but it wasn't those people who did the deeds."

If people are going to get sniffy with red ensign users who weren't themselves in Arctic convoys, they should surely also get sniffy with blue ensign users who did not themselves brave the guns at Dunkirk.

 

[JumbleDuck]

So he was a gallant man but is now dead. Why exactly should someone who has joined the club recently get the "honour" of flying a Blue Ensign? Because he has paid his membership?

The theory is possibly that having been accepted by a discerning committee with a keen eye on tradition, he has been shown to be the right sort of jolly good chep. It smacks to me a bit of wearing grandad's medals on Remembrance Sunday but, as I have said, each to their own.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I love this thread! I think it's brilliant that some people can fly special flags and that some can't, it's so wonderfully British.

The Irish are even weirder. Their standard ensign is the tricolour, but the posher yacht clubs (pre-independence, I think) have their own defaced white or blue ensigns with the tricolour in the corner.

 

[Colvic Watson]

Quite colourful if a bit straight and narrow. Please do share with us your explanation (and if you don't have one yet you certainly need to start working one up) of who the flag represents. To my untutored eye there seems to be a Baltic feel about it, so maybe a WWI Latvian MTB squadron??

16th Century St George Ensign from the Tudor Navy. But looks a little Greek.

 

[Lakesailor]

It's not an "honour" but a warrented permission under certain conditions-nothing else except in the eye of the flyer or the observer if they are so inclined!

The theory is possibly that having been accepted by a discerning committee with a keen eye on tradition, he has been shown to be the right sort of jolly good chep. It smacks to me a bit of wearing grandad's medals on Remembrance Sunday but, as I have said, each to their own.

Yes. I think JumbleDuck has the measure of the dedicated flag officianado.
Still if it floats their boat......

 

[Shakemeister]

I can wear a blue or red on my humble boat. And given the responses I see on these threads about blue ensign snobbery I'm putting the blue on my boat.

The warrant's in the post along with the ensign.

I'm not the best sailor in the world. There's people out there with bigger boats than I could ever afford.

But I've earned the right to put a blue ensign on my little boat. So I'm doing it to spite all you red ensign snobs.

So, all you grotty yotties can wear your red ensign with pride, but if you feel some sort of envy when you sail past a chubby little family cruiser with an undefaced blue ensign, that just reflects your own insecurities.

 

[Robin]

The theory is possibly that having been accepted by a discerning committee with a keen eye on tradition, he has been shown to be the right sort of jolly good chep. It smacks to me a bit of wearing grandad's medals on Remembrance Sunday but, as I have said, each to their own.

Most yacht clubs whether they have warrants for special ensigns or not will interview prospective new members with a view to seeing if they are interested in membership for reasons of a common interest rather than, for example, just as a means of getting a cheapo mooring or a cheap winter layup deal coupled with cheaper beer in the bar. I also belonged to a sailing club for over 25 years, one that had both a menagerie of dinghies and cruisers but that was a DIY club relying on it's members for everything from a lick of paint in the clubhouse to laying the cruiser moorings in the winter. That club had no royal warrant but I was just as proud of being a member but you still had to have an interview by a flag officer before being accepted, mostly to weed out the hopefuls simply wanting a cheap mooring deal without having to put in their share of personal effort towards the club or bothering to regularly attend club events ashore or afloat . I see nothing wrong with that seletion process at all. The concept of 'snooty Yacht Clubs' is pretty much false in my view and largely invented by and put about by those saddos with huge class war leftover chips on the shoulder and insufficient self confidence to apply for membership themselves., preferring to shout snide remarks from the wings and/or point out any errors seen by anyone wearing a different colour ensign to theirs.. BTW I also knew couple of members of the RYS (White ensign wallahs) and one was also a member of my own YC as well, he had a manky old wooden motorsailer, a bit like a Colvic, but one that could do with a total refit, but he was still a very pleasant person and sailed many miles every year singlehanded, making many friends along the way whilst no doubt being sneered at by a few dumb ignorami for his white ensign.

 

[Serin]

If people are going to get sniffy with red ensign users who weren't themselves in Arctic convoys, they should surely also get sniffy with blue ensign users who did not themselves brave the guns at Dunkirk.

Is somebody getting "sniffy" about red ensigns? I think there is about as much evidence for that as there is for any of your other derogatory descriptions of the people who fly them. To whit - none. You certainly have a vivid imagination.

 

[BrianH]

Whatever shade of ensign one prefers the one that clearly stands out at sea and proudly proclaims the vessel's registered nationality to the less informed in the nuances of British vexillology everywhere, is the red ensign. As is well understood by the rich and famous, who all seem to aspire to one.

Here is Parsifal III* passing me between the islands of Brac and Hvar in the Adriatic.

* For sale, I note, down from the original asking price of €60 million to a snip at a mere €38.5 million.

 

[JumbleDuck]

So, all you grotty yotties can wear your red ensign with pride, but if you feel some sort of envy when you sail past a chubby little family cruiser with an undefaced blue ensign, that just reflects your own insecurities.

You are very welcome to have a blue ensign on your chubby little family cruiser, in much the same way as you are very welcome to have a personalised number plate on a battered old Ford Mondeo.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The concept of 'snooty Yacht Clubs' is pretty much false in my view and largely invented by and put about by those saddos with huge class war leftover chips on the shoulder and insufficient self confidence to apply for membership themselves.,

Aw, and you were doing so well up to there. The idea that anyone who isn't a member of a yacht club must be a saddo class warrior who lacks self-confidence is as misguided as the idea that anyone who is a yacht club member is a bumptious old buffer with grey trousers, dodgy boat handling skills and a gin-soaked wife. Couldn't we live and let live on club membership as well as ensigns?

 

[Serin]

Whatever shade of ensign one prefers the one that clearly stands out at sea and proudly proclaims the vessel's registered nationality to the less informed in the nuances of British vexillology everywhere, is the red ensign. As is well understood by the rich and famous, who all seem to aspire to one.

I'm afraid the Red Ensign has become a bit of a flag of convenience rather than one of aspiration. It can be seen flying from the sterns of a great many superyachts but relatively few of them are British owned. Parsifal III is in fact a luxury charter yacht and is Danish owned.

 

[Magaz97]

Aw, and you were doing so well up to there. The idea that anyone who isn't a member of a yacht club must be a saddo class warrior who lacks self-confidence is as misguided as the idea that anyone who is a yacht club member is a bumptious old buffer with grey trousers, dodgy boat handling skills and a gin-soaked wife. Couldn't we live and let live on club membership as well as ensigns?

Yup!

Although I do think of myself as a jolly good chap (chep?) with a fabulous beard and tache combo..... I have even been known to wear a blazer and cravat, together with a pair of Breton reds.... (I hope my club doesn't realise I do this to poke fun....) However, I do choose to fly my defaced Blue and club burgee. I think it looks bloody spiffing!

But you know what... I am happy to share a bottle of whisky or rum with anyone who sails into our club and wants to chat with fellow sailors. No matter what ensign they have, no matter what boat; or if they are a member of a club or not. Fellow sailors of any type are welcome!