Blue ensign dick'ed

[JumbleDuck]

I am proud to work for my employer. Doesn't mean my employer is better than yours. Simply means I have a strong attachment to my company. You may well have with yours, if you are employed. But, how should I know?

Same with clubs. Join a club that you are proud to belong to. Doesn't have to be posh or anything. Then show off your pride by flying its ensign.

Interesting question. If being in the club (or working for the company) gives pride, is that not because it's seen as better than not being involved?

I think the problem at the root of the blue ensign dissers is that some assume those clubs are elitist and/or up their own wotsits. Some may be, but mine certainly ain't.

Absolutely. The snobbery displayed by some clubs taints the others. This advice from the Royal Northumberland YC (https://rnyc.org.uk/activities/cruising/flag-etiquette/) seems to me to exemplify all that's oddest about flag etiquette, though of course those who wish to play the game are welcome to do so.

 

[JumbleDuck]

In my case the vessel is on the National Register of Historic Ships and that is their ensign. Why would you have a problem with that?

I don't have a problem with that. Unlike some, I don't give a fig what flags people want to display.

More likely that you suspect that they belong to a club which wouldn't have you as a member. You might be right, but there's no point being bitter about it.

A perfect example of what I meant. Thank you.

 

[Lakesailor]

I have heard that the coolest flag amongst the group who care about these things is a defaced red. I intend to get a large red from eBay and draw/print an obscure defacement on it, whenever anyone asks what it signifies I shall reply that I can't tell them as it's one of those need-to-know things. Should drive them mad. Any suggestions for the defacement?

You want the Royal Windermere Yacht Club's ensign

 

[Robin]

HOw about a sky blue pink defaced with two rampant naked trolls rutting.

These threads get more stupid every time someone gets a hair up their nose/arse.

 

[Biggles Wader]

If I invented an ensign that deployed itself at 0800 and furled itself at sunset would that be a flag of convenience?

 

[JumbleDuck]

If I invented an ensign that deployed itself at 0800 and furled itself at sunset would that be a flag of convenience?

 

[Birdseye]

Most of the justifications I have seen for non-standard ensigns have been along the lines of "pride in my club", which doesn't seem that far away from "I'm better than you".

Exactly. People see others flying funny ensigns as a piece of one upmanship - "he's got above himself" as my late mother used to say. And there is no social sin worse that adopting airs and graces that you arent really entitled to. Bit like putting irrelevant degrees on business cards - something only the oiks do.

 

[Birdseye]

I am told by a friend in the Royal Ulster YC that a red ensign with an Irish tricolour in place of the union flag has an almost unbeatable power to induce apoplexy.

Is the Royal Ulster the papist yacht club then? Is there a loyalist alternative?

I always laugh when someone mentions the Royal Cork - a ridiculous name for a club in a republic.

 

[Sandy Bottom]

Exactly. People see others flying funny ensigns as a piece of one upmanship - "he's got above himself" as my late mother used to say. And there is no social sin worse that adopting airs and graces that you arent really entitled to. Bit like putting irrelevant degrees on business cards - something only the oiks do.

What if you are entitled? - Not to 'airs and graces' - just to displaying that particular bit of cloth. A bit like say military medals or a Police uniform?

 

[Colvic Watson]

You want the Royal Windermere Yacht Club's ensign

Gosh that's a good one. Just off to check on ebay...

Darn it - no luck

But I found this - the British ensign prior to the inclusion of the Welsh in the ensign - this one's getting added to the collection:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-x-3-Jack-and-Admiral-Of-The-Fleet-Flag-1606-1801-Navy-Naval-Ensign-Banner-/251245419883?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3a7f64dd6b

 

[Shakemeister]

I know some people see ensigns as just a load of bo110ck$, but there are serious rules wrt displaying an ensign. It's a symbol of sovereignty and who's law you abide by. At the very least there are tax implications. If you decide to wear a Cayman Islands flag just 'cos you like the look of it and you like winding up flag obsessed Daily Wail readers, don't be surprised if the Harbour Master and Customs descend on your boat and then fine you for actually not being what you seem.

The prosecutions may be few and far between, but on a practical note would you arrive in a foreign port, hoist the Union Flag and thus basically say to anyone in the know that you are a warship? Some countries take these bits of cloth very seriously - Greece / Turkey springs to mind.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Is the Royal Ulster the papist yacht club then?

To put it mildly no, I believe not. I gather that the members who use the tricoloured red ensign do so as a general wind-up of everyone else.

 

[AuntyRinum]

To put it mildly no, I believe not. I gather that the members who use the tricoloured red ensign do so as a general wind-up of everyone else.

You seem to be a "sailor" who doesn't sail (motor?) very far.
If you have the nerve, take whatevever boat you have into one of the many foreign ports of the world and fly one of the Mickey Mouse ensigns which you've described.
When they've finished with you let us know how you got on.

 

[dombuckley]

But I found this - the British ensign prior to the inclusion of the Welsh in the ensign - this one's getting added to the collection:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5-x-3-Jac...883?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3a7f64dd6b

I think you mean Irish....


Prior to Henry Tudor coming to the crown, the English merchant ensign was a plain St George's cross, while King's ships wore a banner of three gold lions on a red background.

So I expect they had "ensign envy" back then too!

 

[JumbleDuck]

You seem to be a "sailor" who doesn't sail (motor?) very far.
If you have the nerve, take whatevever boat you have into one of the many foreign ports of the world and fly one of the Mickey Mouse ensigns which you've described.
When they've finished with you let us know how you got on.

Yeah, because it's really, really important when sailing in UK waters to use the same flags as you would need for a trip to Turkey, in much the same way that visitors to Hartlepool should take precautions against dengue fever.

 

[Lakesailor]

Gosh that's a good one. Just off to check on ebay...

Darn it - no luck

How about http://www.flyingcolours.org/product/yacht-club-flags/royal-windermere-yacht-club-ensign.html

 

[Magaz97]

Interesting question. If being in the club (or working for the company) gives pride, is that not because it's seen as better than not being involved?



Absolutely. The snobbery displayed by some clubs taints the others. This advice from the Royal Northumberland YC (https://rnyc.org.uk/activities/cruising/flag-etiquette/) seems to me to exemplify all that's worst about flag snobbery.

Any particular reason why you should be so affronted by the traditions of a club that you have no affiliation with? You then go on to state that you don't give a fig, which is it?. Why don't you go fly what flags you like, and leave others to do the same. Our club, our traditions. The blue ensign is not forced upon anyone.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Any particular reason why you should be so affronted by the traditions of a club that you have no affiliation with?

Not particularly affronted, more amused. I may live and let live, but I reserve the right to snigger as well.

 

[Magaz97]

Not particularly affronted, more amused. I may live and let live, but I reserve the right to snigger as well.

Well, in that case thank you for taking the time to reply. Thank you for sniggering at my expense. I sincerely hope that you continue to live and let live.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Well, in that case thank you for taking the time to reply. Thank you for sniggering at my expense. I sincerely hope that you continue to live and let live.

My dear chap, I am not sniggering at all at your expense. Unless you wrote that bit about flag officers and commissioning pennants, in which case, yes, a wry smile may have flitted across my face.

A little more seriously, if one is in the vexillological freedom camp as I am ("An ye harm none, fly what thou wilt"), there is bound to be a disagreement with those who claim that there are rules which apply to everyone and not just to those who play the game. I really don't care what members of the RNYC wish to fly, and where, but I will disagree with claims that I am bound by the same principles. Were I a member of the club then, of course, my position would be different. You sign up; you follow the rules.