BBC Report on Abandoned Boats

[Keith 66]

Interesting article but he's complaining that no-one buys new when they can buy used. Surely that's recycling? The problem seems to be with smallish boats from the 1960s and 1970s - made 50 to 60 years ago where the hull is ok but the remainder not. Will 1980s boats be used for longer given that they are generally larger? How long do grp car/bus/turbine blades last? I can see there is a problem, but I don't see that posing it as a simple problem is helpful.

That article was first published 22 years ago so it is was written largely before the crash in secondhand boat prices of older boats, You have a point re buying used is recycling, I have done this myself with two worn out yachts an Anderson 22 & a Sabre 27, both were typical end of life yachts, or should i say end of economic life! I was a boatbuilder with extensive resources & skills & did everything myself. Even so it still cost more to restore both boats then they were worth, Much more. Would i do it again? No way.
The mass produced boats of the 80's & 90's may well turn out to be less durable than their older sisters on account of lighter construction.
But ask any boat yard or yacht club if they have a problem with abandoned boats & you will find its getting worse, Its a combination of the numbers of people buying boats shrinking & an ever increasing supply of old knackered ones that very few people want.

 

[savageseadog]

The fundamental issue with abandoned boats IMO is the cost of mooring them. Marina and mooring costs have far outstripped the value of most older and smaller boats rendering them too expensive to run.The value of waterside property, taxation and business costs are to blame.

 

[penberth3]

The fundamental issue with abandoned boats IMO is the cost of mooring them. Marina and mooring costs have far outstripped the value of most older and smaller boats rendering them too expensive to run.The value of waterside property, taxation and business costs are to blame.

The point is abandoned boats don't need moorings, they need a practical and economical way of scrapping.

 

[TernVI]

The fundamental issue with abandoned boats IMO is the cost of mooring them. Marina and mooring costs have far outstripped the value of most older and smaller boats rendering them too expensive to run.The value of waterside property, taxation and business costs are to blame.

I think cheap storage makes the problem worse.
If people had to spend proper money to keep owning a boat, they'd get rid of it while it still had some value.

As it is, you can keep hold of a boat on a cheap mooring, or in a club compound for a few yearsafter you've stopped using it during which time it passes from being viable to being a wreck.

Sailing clubs are getting to grips with this at the dinghy end of the scale, work has been done to ensure clubs can dispose of boats after a certain time and after going through the right motions. So clubs are now getting rid of abandoned dinghies while they still have a positive value.

It's like the 'tax disc' limits the number of hopeless old bangers people hang on to, cluttering up public parking.
In the limit, fly tipping of wrecked cars is a similar problem to abandoned boats though.

 

[fisherman]

We run a car park. We make a charge for residents' yearly permits, only £25: we would give them free, but if we did we might have a car park full of abandoned wrecks out of MOT.

 

[savageseadog]

One solution would be to sell job lots of abandoned boats to people smugglers
It will have the dual benefit of getting rid of both the boats and the people trying to get here.

 

[Tranona]

I think cheap storage makes the problem worse.
If people had to spend proper money to keep owning a boat, they'd get rid of it while it still had some value.

We have a slightly different problem in our club because the marina charges are so low nobody wants to give up their berth when they stop using their boat. No wrecks but perfectly usable boats that don't go anywhere and a queue of members who do use their boats wanting a berth.

 

[penfold]

Raise the charges? Or are the klingons all on the committee?

 

[dgadee]

One solution would be to sell job lots of abandoned boats to people smugglers
It will have the dual benefit of getting rid of both the boats and the people trying to get here.

?

 

[penberth3]

.......It's like the 'tax disc' limits the number of hopeless old bangers people hang on to, cluttering up public parking.
In the limit, fly tipping of wrecked cars is a similar problem to abandoned boats though.

There is a legally established system for abandoned cars, usually easy road access, and there's the scrap value to cover the costs. A lot easier than sorting out GRP boats.

 

[Tranona]

Raise the charges? Or are the klingons all on the committee?

The club is a members club and charges are set to cover costs and maintain the fabric. Are you suggesting a reverse charging rate rather like road charging? so the fees you pay are a function of the amount of times you use the boat?

And, no the "klingons" are not on the committee - in fact the very opposite. The problem arises because the club is long established and therefore has an aging membership. This inevitably means with the care that old people (like me) get the longer they want to keep their boats despite the declining and then non existent level of use. How do you tell a member of 30 years+ he should give up his boat and berth when he pays his bills on time even though the boat never moves. Club rules require regular use, but how do you enforce it without having a Stasi type regime?

 

[penfold]

Raise the mooring charges and extend the moorings, use any surplus to reduce the bar tariff; trebles all round!

 

[Stemar]

The club is a members club and charges are set to cover costs and maintain the fabric. Are you suggesting a reverse charging rate rather like road charging? so the fees you pay are a function of the amount of times you use the boat?

And, no the "klingons" are not on the committee - in fact the very opposite. The problem arises because the club is long established and therefore has an aging membership. This inevitably means with the care that old people (like me) get the longer they want to keep their boats despite the declining and then non existent level of use. How do you tell a member of 30 years+ he should give up his boat and berth when he pays his bills on time even though the boat never moves. Club rules require regular use, but how do you enforce it without having a Stasi type regime?

Same issue at my club. Not helped by the fact that one or two of the worst offenders have worked hard for the club for decades. Yes, of course they should get rid of the boats they're never going to use again to free up much needed moorings, but destroying their dreams of going out again and telling them they're past it is a harsh repayment for their years of service.

 

[dgadee]

Same issue at my club. Not helped by the fact that one or two of the worst offenders have worked hard for the club for decades. Yes, of course they should get rid of the boats they're never going to use again to free up much needed moorings, but destroying their dreams of going out again and telling them they're past it is a harsh repayment for their years of service.

My next door neighbour is almost 80 and looks after his boat well - many years of it's life left. His problem is getting younger crew to accompany him. Maybe that's a problem with your 'worst offenders', too.

 

[mattonthesea]

The club is a members club and charges are set to cover costs and maintain the fabric. Are you suggesting a reverse charging rate rather like road charging? so the fees you pay are a function of the amount of times you use the boat?

And, no the "klingons" are not on the committee - in fact the very opposite. The problem arises because the club is long established and therefore has an aging membership. This inevitably means with the care that old people (like me) get the longer they want to keep their boats despite the declining and then non existent level of use. How do you tell a member of 30 years+ he should give up his boat and berth when he pays his bills on time even though the boat never moves. Club rules require regular use, but how do you enforce it without having a Stasi type regime?

Could you have a system where the used boats get the best moorings and the less a boat is used the further back it lives - finally on the hard/mud? That would be a visible reality of the dream disappearing. It may lead to a 'moving on'.

Just an idea

 

[Blueboatman]

We ‘ could’ create an industry wide capping system .
In order to introduce one new boat , an old one has to be removed from this world ?
Trouble is I think that is a perfect example of The Wrong Conclusion.
Like chopping up fishing boats and cashing in the license .

Anyway surely with Island Britain in siege state these days , old boats, like old cars and bikes are the new ‘ must have’ ??

 

[Tranona]

Could you have a system where the used boats get the best moorings and the less a boat is used the further back it lives - finally on the hard/mud? That would be a visible reality of the dream disappearing. It may lead to a 'moving on'.

Just an idea

Not moorings (although we have lots of these as well, all excellent deep water) but a high grade marina where there is effectively no good or bad berths - particularly if it is only used as a boat park!

Various means of persuasion have been tried, such as free storage while a boat is sold. This worked for some, but the market for worn out boats as we know has been slow for the lasts few years. The basic problem is proving the boat is not being used in accordance with the club rules (and listening to the excuses as to why it will be next year) and perhaps it is time to accept sailing days are over. Current plan is to monitor boat movements through the entrance using a scan, but as you can imagine this has not gone down well with some.

 

[Resolution]

Not moorings (although we have lots of these as well, all excellent deep water) but a high grade marina where there is effectively no good or bad berths - particularly if it is only used as a boat park!

Various means of persuasion have been tried, such as free storage while a boat is sold. This worked for some, but the market for worn out boats as we know has been slow for the lasts few years. The basic problem is proving the boat is not being used in accordance with the club rules (and listening to the excuses as to why it will be next year) and perhaps it is time to accept sailing days are over. Current plan is to monitor boat movements through the entrance using a scan, but as you can imagine this has not gone down well with some.

How about modifying the usage rules such that members who fail to use their boats must make them available on loan to {younger} members? Maybe skippered by the owner, maybe not. Perhaps have special weekends so that crew can be swapped over from one old codger to another. Perhaps dress these weekends up as sail training days for novice sailors.
I suspect one of the most frequent reasons why old owners stop going out is the difficulty of finding crew who can still bend a knee!

 

[Caraway]

I'm not sure how else to put it. The thread is about the disposal of boats. It is illogical to suggest that there isn't an issue with boat fly tipping because there is a problem with the disposal of wind vanes.

It is a bit like me asking for advice on what varnish to use, and you telling me that the real issue is actually the state of my sails.

Really?
Are they not both difficult materials (very much the same) and both unweildy to deal with at the end of their useful life?

 

[Pye_End]

Really?
Are they not both difficult materials (very much the same) and both unweildy to deal with at the end of their useful life?

Exactly my point - they are both a problem. One problem doesn't negate another - it just adds to it.