BBC Report on Abandoned Boats

[Pye_End]

A little research shows that TBT was outlawed for boats <25m in 1987 so whilst abandoned GRP boats may be a growing problem, TBT on them shouldn't be.

It is interesting that:
'Dr Andrew Turner finds Tributyltin, a potent anti-fouling paint, on an abandoned boat '

So either he stuff really hangs around, or the boat in question was using illegal antifouling till much more recently.

Did TBT get banned on fishing boats at that time, or was that in 2003? Can imagine some will have 'stocked up' before it was withdrawn, but even still it is surprising they can still detect it.

Wooden craft, stripped of all 'nasties', and not a danger to other craft may well not be an environmental problem, though it feels a bit like dumping your rubbish in the woods. Plastic craft, on the other hand, really should not be left to go the same way - there is enough microplastic in the environment already without adding it it. Is it high on the list of environmental impacts? - no - but doesn't make it right....

 

[Laminar Flow]

It is interesting that:
'Dr Andrew Turner finds Tributyltin, a potent anti-fouling paint, on an abandoned boat '

So either he stuff really hangs around, or the boat in question was using illegal antifouling till much more recently.

Did TBT get banned on fishing boats at that time, or was that in 2003? Can imagine some will have 'stocked up' before it was withdrawn, but even still it is surprising they can still detect it.

Wooden craft, stripped of all 'nasties', and not a danger to other craft may well not be an environmental problem, though it feels a bit like dumping your rubbish in the woods. Plastic craft, on the other hand, really should not be left to go the same way - there is enough microplastic in the environment already without adding it it. Is it high on the list of environmental impacts? - no - but doesn't make it right....

My understanding was that TBT was one of those "persistent" chemicals that likes to hang around. While TBT was banned from use in pleasure craft, it was not banned from use in ships until 2008.

 

[laika]

Did TBT get banned on fishing boats at that time, or was that in 2003?

I haven't gone as far as seeking out the actual legislation but a few papers I googled mentioned only "<25m" rather than a restriction by function. The picture accompanying the quote you mentioned looked like it could have easily been of a boat from well before 1987 so I'd guess at the "hangs around" option

 

[dgadee]

The Blavet is even mentioned on Google maps as a ships graveyard. Very scenic when you anchor off them:

Ship Wrecks Graveyard · 56600 Lanester, France

 

[fisherman]

TBT banned for me in about 1989. Still OK then for big ships inc those moored up the Fal, which did a lot of good. Half life of two years, but persistent for many more, detectable in concentrations the equivalent of one second in 35000 years. There is a ship load of it sunk in the Bristol channel, in steel drums. Bit of a time bomb.
If it is on these boats, then it's out there whatever you do to it, unless it is carefully gathered and dealt with properly.

 

[Seven Spades]

TBT can still be purchased in some Caribbean countries. So I am sure one or two have made it back with "the good stuff".

 

[Keith 66]

I am not surprised TBT is still around on old boats, I worked in the trade for many years & often came across the stuff on boats up until fairly recently usually painted over but its smell is unmistakable when you try & scrape or sand it. Every boatyard, Every yacht club has its death row, people hang onto the dream for too long that they might use the boat again, A walk round our club will show maybe a third of the yachts are effectively derelict & unseaworthy, far beyond economical repair, thats fine as long as they are paid for. But old yachtsmen have the unfortunate habit of popping their clogs. Then the relatives think they are doing the club a favour by "Donating " the boat to it. Basically walking away from their obligations. The cost of breaking up a boat like a Centaur was £2500 a couple of years back. Chopping old grp boats up is hard heavy dusty dangerous work.
Naval architect Eric Spongberg wrote a very prophetic article about Recycling dead boats 20 years ago, worth looking up.
Ebay is not a responsible disposal route!

 

[oldmanofthehills]

Then there's the 'cimetiere des navires' at Terenez, another one in the upper reaches of Portsmouth Harbour, yet another at Devonport.... and what about all those hulks in the Truro River?
Granted, neither old wooden walls nor fibreglass.... and some of them radioactive!

Being recently weather bound in Falmouth, we motored our yacht up to Truro. We rowed ashore at the floodgate and walked the bank as far as the bridge. The banks were lined with dyeing craft, many half capsized. Most depressing and hardly in line with Truro councils claimed plan to improve facilities and welcome more craft.

The 'parish wharfs' at Saltash (allegedly under the control of Truro Harbour) are full of rubbish . So is the parish wharf near my old Bristol Channel club. The problem is that a/ some folk buy a boat with no capability of ever getting it seaworth b/ some older folk get to ill to sail or move boat, and if they die their relatives have other concerns.

 

[Gary Fox]

Any people desperately poor or unfortunate enough to be forced to live on board, in the UK, on a small boat should not be treated like an eyesore spoiling the view, that can't be much fun, leave them alone.
Only sunk, hopeless and ugly (fibreglass...) wrecks need immediate attention from the local authorities.

 

[zoidberg]

Any people desperately poor or unfortunate enough to be forced to live on board, in the UK, on a small boat should not be treated like an eyesore spoiling the view, that can't be much fun, leave them alone.
Only sunk, hopeless and ugly (fibreglass...) wrecks need immediate attention from the local authorities.

Does that view extend to those who live on boats on the canals and inland rivers?

 

[Gary Fox]

Does that view extend to those who live on boats on the canals and inland rivers?

It's late and for the moment, all I can say is that most of the rules and laws already on the books would, **if applied**, cover most of the problems associated with floating favelas on the narrow canal network.
I was thinking more of tidal creeks round the coast.

 

[Daydream believer]

We need to clear up the backlog, then move to a "current disposal" basis so that people do not add another dying boat to some backwater. We have tackled the abandoned plastic bags problem by a charge. Perhaps that is a reasonable model for old boats. If I have a car that terminally fails the MOT, I take it (or have it taken) to the scrapyard. The costs will be higher to do that for a boat, but the environmental burden of abandoning it are not acceptable today.

The difference is, that when you take your car to a breakers they will give you £ 125 for scrap value ( more if it has ally wheels) so it makes it worthwhile. No one is going to pay you to take your boat to a breakers

 

[lustyd]

I agree with the concept. But the typical owner who leaves his possession to decay where it is not going to be up for transport charges to move his/her hulk to a dump. finding owners and getting their 'donation' would be almost impossible.

The current thinking is to place a charge on the new boats, like they do with electronics under the WEEE directive. That money pays for disposal of old boats by funding initiatives to make it profitable, such as the GRP to concrete one. Trying to charge the owners of old vessels is unworkable and everyone knows that, hence the lack of progress so far. The only problem with charging the first owners is that at some point there will need to be a spike in price, and a way to control where the levy is charged. It's no good EU introducing a charge if people swap to buying boats in the UK immediately to avoid the charge.

 

[Adios]

floating favelas

Thats the exact phrase that kept coming to mind going up the Medway past Rochester the other week. Some very sorry looking sights among the nicer barges. Though from experience I know some of the eclectic ramshackle look of boats is by design and as much to do with weed as poverty though they are intertwined things in a few ways. It seems to have grown significantly over the last 15 years and become more coastal whereas before it seemed to be clusters of undercoat only painted narrowboat crustys now its estuary crustys. If I was single with no kids its where I'd live though, I sometimes wonder why I don't even with the kids. The size of ship I'd need is probably the most off putting thing, too much responsibility.

 

[fisherman]

Boatbreakers are still going

Boatbreakers | Buy, Sell, Scrap & Recycle all kind of boats

 

[Stemar]

The current thinking is to place a charge on the new boats, like they do with electronics under the WEEE directive. That money pays for disposal of old boats by funding initiatives to make it profitable, such as the GRP to concrete one.

I would certainly favour that, and not just secure in the knowledge that I'm never likely to buy new. While I understand the aesthetic value of a wooden wreck - sometimes, and agree that a GRP wreck just looks sad at best and a gross eyesore at worst, at least most of the GRP wrecks still float, so they aren't leaching oil and other pollutants into the environment. I'll bet many of those picturesque wooden wrecks were dumped with engines full of oil and a few gallons of diesel in rusty tanks. Asbestos? A bit of a red herring, I reckon, though a few of those beautiful wooden wrecks may well have had some insulating an exhaust pipe.

Yes, Something Needs To Be Done, but I don't think there's any real panic about it - there are plenty of worse issues that are way more urgent, and Something Must Be Done legislation always has serious unintended consequences. On balance, I think I'd favour a small annual levy on mooring charges to help with the clear up costs, and, possibly a deposit when taking up a mooring to cover the cost of disposal of boats whose owners cannot be identified. That levy, however would have to be ringfenced and for a fixed number of years, or it would never go away, like the Dartford crossing charge. The powers that be have no problem with introducing charges or increasing them once they're in, but they're a lot less keen on ending them.

 

[dgadee]

Boatbreakers are still going

Boatbreakers | Buy, Sell, Scrap & Recycle all kind of boats

Yes, but they say:

"Do you need to scrap your boat? Or do you have an old boat that has been neglected but could be restored?

Using our scrap quotation form below, you can get a free, no obligation, estimate of how much it might cost for Boatbreakers to recycle your boat."

 

[dgadee]

Isn't it actually the large number of blades of wind turbines which are the real problem - not a few unsightly boats lying about backwaters?

 

[lustyd]

Of course not, wind turbines are completely green and are the answer to our problems!

 

[lustyd]

not just secure in the knowledge that I'm never likely to buy new.

The beauty of this system is that the contribution would depreciate with the boat, so every owner effectively pays once and in proportion to what they can afford. If a new boat goes up by £10k, then at resale it might add £5k for the second owner, £2k for the third. All in real terms, of course.
A Levy on moorings would be as bad as trying to charge the poor owner of the rotting vessel. I wouldn't agree to a charge in my marina. There are no rotting boats in there after all, so sensibly that would only work on cheap moorings in the affected areas.