Bavaria?

[sidon]

I am thinking of upgrading my Jeanneau so 37 at the end of this season to something approximateley 40 ft ish. I have looked at the usual suspects ie, another Jeanneau & Beneteaus new 423. I wasnt very impressed with the build quality of the new Jeanneaus. Liked the Beneteau. Then I looked at the Bavaria 41, and thought the build quality was equal to the Jeanneau only at a much better price, and found the deck gear to be far superior. I liked the Bav, however the only thing that puts me off is all the negative comments I have received when mentioning this boat. My cruising will hopefully take me over the channel again to France etc. Whilst my boat is by no means perfect she does sail o.k, and we have had many happy trips sometimes in boisterous conditions and allways felt safe, we also do a small amount of racing,so performance is important to me. Much as I would Like something a little sportier, I sail with my wife and 8 & 4 yr old sons most of the time.I was wondering whether anyone could tell me a bit more on the Bavs strengths & weaknesses? Your comments would be greatly received.

Simon

 

[Twister_Ken]

Your comments about racing make me wonder if you should also consider one of teh current crop of 40 something footers which are designed to do well around the cans, something that Bavaria has never claimed. Things like:
Beneteau First 40.7
Dehler 39
X-Yachts IMS 40
Grand Soleil 40
Elan 40
Hanse 411
J120. etc

 

[Reap]

I have sailed most of the Bavarias as an instructor and on corporate charters and at the risk of offending Bavaria owners I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole.
Now admittedly I am very skeptical of all lightweight boats jeaneau and benateau included. However in my opinion the Bavaria does not compare.
I would hesitate to take one across the channel let alone go further afield.

My reasons...... I have found the boats to be far too light, they broach far too easily and need to be reefed way way too early to have any sort of controllable helm. The galley whist looking nice and being great in harbour is pretty impractical in any kind of sea. The cooker gimbles a rediculously small amount and when i delivered a 32 I think it was, the cooker hit the wall at about 10 degrees of lean on starboard tack and on port tack if you were unfortunate enough to be in the port quarter cabin then you were stuck in there until the boat tacked back to starboard, or somebody came and moved the cooker out of the way of the door!!
God knows what would happen if you were single handed, nipped into the cabin and the boat heeled more!!
There are no lee cloths on any of the bunks.
Thats just one or two points.
If your looking for a boat to cruise the solent, with the odd trip across the channel in perfect conditions, or a boat to have in the med then they are probably perfectly adequate, but in my opinion for any kind of serious or long distance sailing they are unsuitable.
They are popular because they are cheap and you get a bigger boat for your money and they are very easy to buy with easy purchase schemes etc.
Or am I being unfair

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.yacht-links.net>http://www.yacht-links.net</A>

 

[sidon]

Thanks for your honesty, I have dismissed the Bavaria because of your comments, and amnow looking at an elan or a comar does anybody know anything about comars?

 

[aod]

Odd isn't it. One mans meat and another mans poison etc. I have also sailed the Bavarias 37s and while they are not really my kind of boat and the finish left a lot to be desired I thought they were good value.

However a friend of mine recently bought a Bavaria 42 and I thought it to be a bloody excellent boat. Good design, good finish, fast, stiff, so I guess it depends on which Bavaria you are looking to buy.

 

[oldsalt]

I had almost the same problems when I sailed a Bav 32 on a delivery. In moderate following seas she would broach at the slightest touch. I had to fully reef to control the broaching which meant a large drop in speed.

The cooker was not properly gimballed with the result that my food in the oven was smashing off the glass front of the door.

The toilet seat cover would not stay upright whilst under way resulting in some interesting moments whilst rying to use it.

When sailing single handed it is not possible to reach the mainsheet without moving from behind the wheel.

Cabin hand holds look like they are held on with self tappers and felt very flimsy- I would not trust them at all.

It's a fine caravan for marinas and flat water, but certainly not suitable for stronger winds. It's sold as a familly boat, yet it broaches more than many out and out racing craft that I've sailed....

 

[david_e]

Re: Broaching Bavaria?

Is there a reason that they are very prone to broaching?

 

[Twister_Ken]

My suspicion on the broaching question ...

...is that because they rely so much on form stability rather than ballast to keep them upright. So, as they heel they immerse more and more of the leeward hull and the underwater shape becomes very asymmetric. This asymmetry is what turns them up into the wind, and it is more than the rudder can counteract. Apparently later models like the 36 are much better than their predecessors.

 

[Guest]

We bought our Bavaria 40 April 2001, when it first came out (now the Bavaria 41) having previously sailed a Moody 33 Mark II for a few years. We sail off the East cost, frequently cross the Channel, usually across the North Sea to Holland and Belgium, and in 2002 to the Channel Islands.

We bought the Bavaria having spent considerable time comparing dispacement data and ballast ratio with boats such as Jeanneau, Beneteau and Moody. We specifically wanted a boat which we could with confidence sail in any conditions. We ruled out Jeaneau and Beneteau on grounds of safety (would not want to face a "blow" in either) and Jeaneau in particular on grounds of lack of finish quality. Interestingly the deal from Opal for the Bavaria was actually cheaper than Jeaneau and Beneteau!

We have frequently sailed her in Force 7 and above, including a memorable crossing from Holland. She has come through with flying colours.

I am very happy to cook in anything up to and including a Force 6, and particularly like the galley arrangement (I find the sturdy midship saloon seat handy to brace myself against when cooking as it has a high back).

Directional stability - she is easy to balance and when balanced requires minimal/zero helm correction.

Yes the quality of finish does not compare with a Moody - but then it is significantly cheaper, and they do not cut corners where it matters. The quality is however superior to that of Jeaneau and Beneteau.

Gripes? None really, apart from the angle of the sides of the Cockpit (my back would prefer straight backs rather than the curves). We had teething problems, not surprising considering ours was one of the earlier boats, but infact the majority were problems with equipment which had been fitted rather than with the Bavaria (cooker, Raytheon GPS antennae and Opel's installation of the heating system).

I would definitely recommend Bavaria.

 

[ashbyg]

I can't speak for other Bavaria models but I've cruised with my 34 from Biscay to the Baltic, living aboard for the five summer months for the past two years, which adds up to a lot of sailing. It's not perfect, given twice the money I have bought a Halberg I suppose. I don't race and I try to avoid risks but like everyone I've been caught out in bad weather a few times and boat's done well. It's never broached even in the very strong conditions we had in the Baltic last year when mine was one of the few boats out sailing. I'm confident in it. It's very comfortable, we like having family visiting us, socialising and entertaining aboard as well as sailing, and the interior layout suits this ideally.The construction is quite satisfactory and the fittings are high quality. Opal's after sales service were excellent and the boat's given me no real problems. It maneouvres well in marinas and unlike some frustrating boats I've sailed it moves in light winds. In a force five with one reef in it belts along! It won't bash it's way to windward under sail like a slim long keeler but one needs to remember all boats are a compromise of many factors. I've owned and sailed many other boats and I'm more than happy with my 34.

 

[gerardversluis]

A friend of mine has worked several years for Bavaria. He told me that the construction quality is less than average (You get were you pay for). It's a very good boat to live on in marina's.

 

[charles_reed]

Oft maligned, but designed for what the market average demands.

Superficially they are well-finished and their deck gear, wiring and engine-installation are good (tho' with the recent rumours of Rutgerson problems the former could change).

The lightness of construction and production short-cuts can only be picked out on detailed internal examination and the Elvstrom sails are cheap (in all senses of the word).

However the boats are superb value for money, designed for occasional day-sailing from a marina by the inexperienced, who like to have lots of friends to visit and with an excellent light air performance and easy handling.

I wouldn't rate them as highly as the beneteau as a sea-boat, but they're really giving the French manufacturer a sales drubbing in France, their own country.

 

[AndrewB]

Looked at one few years ago and thought it worth considering. But I have been totally deterred by the article on construction methods in the Sept 2001 issue of YM. Reading between the lines, it sounded as if modern Bavarias rely on stapled-together furniture to maintain the hull shape.

I'm probably reading too much into this, knowing that YM tend to be circumloquatious when it comes to serious criticisms of yachts, but I would recommend you take a look at the article if you are considering one.

 

[robp]

<We ruled out Jeaneau and Beneteau on grounds of safety (would not want to face a "blow" in either) and Jeaneau in particular on grounds of lack of finish quality. Interestingly the deal from Opal for the Bavaria was actually cheaper than Jeaneau and Beneteau!>

April 2001 you say? I think if you check now, you will find them a bit different. I discounted the Bav 40 more recently, when I compared it to my now 5 year old Ben 36. (Which I have also sailed in 37 knots). The finish on the Ben is far superior. However, since Bav started to hit Ben's sales, I think that they have both traded price for quality of finish.
Bavaria have been hurting Beneteau but not without cutting corners.
I generally see the Jen as the heavier built boats in the Ben's ilk.

 

[pkb]

So how come you appear to sail a Beneteau? Peter

 

[iangrant]

Simon

I wouldn't say moving to a Bav would be an "upgrade". I looked at the 40 something Bav at the show. Even on the show boat the chart table was warped, it wouldn't close!!

I agree the quality of the Jeanneaus have slipped they seem a bit lighter than those of 5 years ago. Why not upgrade to a second hand SO 42?

Ian

 

[charles_reed]

A good summary but more critical than diplomatic

 

[charles_reed]

In fairness, I've found that with the hollow leech on the in-mast furling they broach far less.
Equally they don't get going in a light breeze.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Hand rails are held on with something - not quite sure what. New 38 just delivered - proud owner showing me round, I hold on to a handrail - off it comes! 3 minutes later, 30 foot powerboat comes along side slightly heavily - sickening cracking sound all round no visible damage but..... the beginning of the end....

 

[robp]

You mean as opposed to Jeanneau? I wanted a 36' Centre Cockpit and liked the layout of the Ben. Caravan if you like. I'd have liked a Moody 36 but couldn't afford it at the time. She sails well now I've upgraded the sails.