steve yates
Well-known member
Anyone entering?
Baltimore 25
- Thread starter steve yates
- Start date
Sandy
Well-known member
My LOA is to long, but am planning to visit Baltimore during 2025. That time might be about an hour after the start time. 
LittleSister
Well-known member
Are you?
And what is the Baltimore 25? The nearest thing Google throws up is is the 25th Baltimore Book Festival (and that's in Maryland, USA!).
steve yates
Well-known member
You could take a wild guess
I fancy taking the wee boat, the longbow wont be ready and is a foot too long. I know they’ve been before but it would be a proper challenge in the wee one.
I fancy taking the wee boat, the longbow wont be ready and is a foot too long. I know they’ve been before but it would be a proper challenge in the wee one.
LittleSister
Well-known member
You could take a wild guess
I did. I suspected it might be something to do with what I now remember is the Jester Challenge, but at the time couldn't remember that blinkin' name for the life of me to look it up.
For others not 'in the know':
Baltimore 2025 - (well, actually info about the previous one)
Baltimore 2023
Great idea. Go for it!
I could get into it myself, but suspect I probably won't actually do it as I've a backlog of other trips I want to do queued up.
I know Baltimore and its marine surroundings - very scenic, interesting and challenging - as I used to live not far from there in County Cork, and used to do a lot of sea kayaking around there and elsewhere around the SW Ireland coast and islands (though never quite made it out to Fastnet, sadly). I didn't get much actual sailing in during that period, but did once go out from Baltimore, two-handed in a wooden 30ft modern replica of a traditional local open fishing sailing boat (forgotten proper name), which was quite an experience, not least for impressing on me how much less work modern lightweight Bermudan rigs with winches etc. are!
wingcommander
Active member
Out of interest, is the official information regarding entry details published ie, dates of event, starting points etc . I notice from the 2023 event their were several boats in excess of 30 feet entering and also a North Wales start for us up here. I do have to admit this type of sailing is what I like best , with the emphasis on A to B not a race, no need for pre boat inspection saying you need to go and buy this and that, and no arm and a leg entrance fee involved.
pandos
Well-known member
I might be visiting Plymouth and heading back to Baltimore around that same time.. it seems new rulers of the event have become more elitest, I was told on the Facebook page that "they" had decided that 32 feet was the cutoff, irrespective of past practices.My LOA is to long, but am planning to visit Baltimore during 2025. That time might be about an hour after the start time.
Not sure who "they" are,
I have emailed about the rules and how the boat is measured but have not received a response.
I had a previous invitation from Ewen, had spent a lot of money and time preparing my boat, even bought my burgee, but health issues intervened.
Sastrugi
New member
What are the best ways to find a suitable JC boat for Baltimore 25 and perhaps Rhode Island 26?
I made a list using data from Sailboatdata with some weighting criteria on different factors to help narrow down the choice and keep checking the usual websites.
Also just read Panakis’ Jester Challenge book.
I made a list using data from Sailboatdata with some weighting criteria on different factors to help narrow down the choice and keep checking the usual websites.
Also just read Panakis’ Jester Challenge book.
Sastrugi
New member
Thought it may interest others to see, comment on, criticise etc the list. What is obvious is that data ratios are not everything and when applying a weighting to each criteria to compare boats, the weighting factors will differ per person and heavily influence the results. This means of analysis ignores probably the most important factor and that is how the boat sails, the personal "connection" with a boat, its availability and affordability.
Gargleblaster
Well-known member
Sastrugi, In your "Jester Boat Comparison" most of the boats are over 30 feet. Some notable exceptions such as the Twister which in my mind is probably the ideal boat for the Jester Challenge. the only one that made it though was Tony Head in 'Triple Venture'.
Over 30 feet does not eliminate you from the Jester Challenge and originally you needed to be invited by all skippers participating to be able to take part. But that became a bit hard and now it seems to be open slather.
One thing I would say that having done it twice in a flat bottomed fin keel boat, that it is not a ideal boat. The problenm is that after a gale when the waves are coming from the SW and the wind is from the NW they get very steep and over 4 knots you tend to fly off the top of the wave and land with a crash and much shaking of the boat and particularly the mast. But I did like the flat bottomed fin keel for lying a hull as it tended to slide sideways at about 4 knots and developed a lovely slick which mostly prevented the waves from breaking on the boat.
The most comfortable and best all round boat I completed the Jester Challenge in was a Rival 34. It could stand up to any weather and wave conditions and didn't slam the way my UFO27 did on the backside of a gale. However everyone gave me a lot of stick for completing the challeng in a boat over 30 feet, so I would never do it in a boat ove 30 feet again for that reason. Tried to do it in a 25 feet long keel boat but was swamped by a breaking wave and ended up with a cabin full of water and no electrics and all my bilge pumps blocked and it was only blowing F8.
Over 30 feet does not eliminate you from the Jester Challenge and originally you needed to be invited by all skippers participating to be able to take part. But that became a bit hard and now it seems to be open slather.
One thing I would say that having done it twice in a flat bottomed fin keel boat, that it is not a ideal boat. The problenm is that after a gale when the waves are coming from the SW and the wind is from the NW they get very steep and over 4 knots you tend to fly off the top of the wave and land with a crash and much shaking of the boat and particularly the mast. But I did like the flat bottomed fin keel for lying a hull as it tended to slide sideways at about 4 knots and developed a lovely slick which mostly prevented the waves from breaking on the boat.
The most comfortable and best all round boat I completed the Jester Challenge in was a Rival 34. It could stand up to any weather and wave conditions and didn't slam the way my UFO27 did on the backside of a gale. However everyone gave me a lot of stick for completing the challeng in a boat over 30 feet, so I would never do it in a boat ove 30 feet again for that reason. Tried to do it in a 25 feet long keel boat but was swamped by a breaking wave and ended up with a cabin full of water and no electrics and all my bilge pumps blocked and it was only blowing F8.
Sastrugi
New member
Thanks for the response Gargleblaster and sharing your experiences. The list is not complete, and includes some boats that have never done the Jester. It's not meant to be an analysis of previous Jester Boats, more looking at boats Ive seen available that may be within "previously accepted" lengths and types.
Is the decision on what is acceptable also based on the route (e.g. different criteria for Baltimore vs Rhode Island)? Having a cut off would remove uncertainty, though possibly change the ethos of the event. Maybe a "Chichester class" or similar aka GGR for boats bigger than 30ft?
Not an easy decision, and luckily not one I have to, or want to make.
I can also well imagine that there would be some banter over a pint (of milk or other beverage or your choice) about participating with a boat over the "guideline" limit. A feeling of being welcome, but not equal. It's a challenge after all not a race, and the banter may well be part of the experience.
It's a fabulous initiative and I hope to be able to have a Jester experience in the future.
Is the decision on what is acceptable also based on the route (e.g. different criteria for Baltimore vs Rhode Island)? Having a cut off would remove uncertainty, though possibly change the ethos of the event. Maybe a "Chichester class" or similar aka GGR for boats bigger than 30ft?
Not an easy decision, and luckily not one I have to, or want to make.
I can also well imagine that there would be some banter over a pint (of milk or other beverage or your choice) about participating with a boat over the "guideline" limit. A feeling of being welcome, but not equal. It's a challenge after all not a race, and the banter may well be part of the experience.
It's a fabulous initiative and I hope to be able to have a Jester experience in the future.
Sandy
Well-known member
Perhaps we could set off about the same time.
pandos
Well-known member
Absolutely..
gaylord694
Member
I think it's well regarded that a long keeled boat up to 30 ft is the optimum for the JC theres been contessa 26,s & Invicta's which have taken part , perhaps take a look at these
zoidberg
Well-known member
This is a personal opinion. Others are quite entitled to differ - and some will!
As I understand it, the 'Jester Challenge' was conceived to celebrate the ocean-crossing achievements of Col 'Blondie' Haslar in his Folkboat 'Jester'.... by emulation.
It was broadly agreed among those participating that those following his lead in similar-sized boats would experience much the same challenges and would need to exercise a similar degree of seamanship to overcome them.
People suggest that boats a few feet over 30 are much the same as those under 30 feet. I disagree.
A Rival 34 displaces almost 12000lb. A Hurley 24/70 - and most Folkboat derivatives - displaces little over 4000lb. I've sailed both twice across the Celtic Sea and further, and it was/is very evident that the smaller, lighter boat presents much more of a challenge to the singlehander. One might be tempted to suggest that the 4000lb boat is about 3 times as difficult and challenging as the 12000lb cruiser.
By all means, if you have a largish, comfortable boat do come and join in. But you're not accepting the same challenge as someone in a 25-footer. You're doing something else, and you know it.
As I understand it, the 'Jester Challenge' was conceived to celebrate the ocean-crossing achievements of Col 'Blondie' Haslar in his Folkboat 'Jester'.... by emulation.
It was broadly agreed among those participating that those following his lead in similar-sized boats would experience much the same challenges and would need to exercise a similar degree of seamanship to overcome them.
People suggest that boats a few feet over 30 are much the same as those under 30 feet. I disagree.
A Rival 34 displaces almost 12000lb. A Hurley 24/70 - and most Folkboat derivatives - displaces little over 4000lb. I've sailed both twice across the Celtic Sea and further, and it was/is very evident that the smaller, lighter boat presents much more of a challenge to the singlehander. One might be tempted to suggest that the 4000lb boat is about 3 times as difficult and challenging as the 12000lb cruiser.
By all means, if you have a largish, comfortable boat do come and join in. But you're not accepting the same challenge as someone in a 25-footer. You're doing something else, and you know it.
dansaskip
Well-known member
Indeed zoidberg is quite right, the Jester Challenge was conceived as a tribute to Blondie and his boat Jester, plus I might add the other 4 competitors in the 1st single handed Transatlantic race. I might add there were 5 entries and 4 of these entered in boats under 30ft. I would also like to add that later the organising club of the Ostar as this race became later (in 1980) banned boats under 30ft from entering and that this was one of the main motivations for the Jester challenge. To read more visit wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-Handed_Trans-Atlantic_Race#:~:text=The OSTAR Edition-,The OSTAR, 1960,whom five actually took part. amongst other sources.
As a personal option I think the "size creep" upwards for the Jester is a regrettable trend, if that is what it is. I quite agree with zoiberg here in his disagreement that " boats a few feet over 30 are much the same as those under 30" As a sailor of a 28ft boat who has crossed oceans I should know.
Back to main point of thread Baltimore 2025 - might see you there about t time I visited Ireland again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-Handed_Trans-Atlantic_Race#:~:text=The OSTAR Edition-,The OSTAR, 1960,whom five actually took part. amongst other sources.
As a personal option I think the "size creep" upwards for the Jester is a regrettable trend, if that is what it is. I quite agree with zoiberg here in his disagreement that " boats a few feet over 30 are much the same as those under 30" As a sailor of a 28ft boat who has crossed oceans I should know.
Back to main point of thread Baltimore 2025 - might see you there about t time I visited Ireland again.
prestomg27
Active member
Sad to see your old 'glayva' looking very lonely in essex marina's unloved section. Would be a good project for someone.
Brian.
gaylord694
Member
I tend to agree with that line of thought I'd personally like to see it go back to its roots and allow max 30ft , that way there's no mutterings
pandos
Well-known member
The idea of becoming so dogmatic about the size of the boat is to follow the mindset of the Ostar people who had established something and then sought to exclude a certain class of sailors.
Many of the past Jesters have been over 30 feet, and indeed over 32 feet.
What harm has it done to anyone? I suspect there are some who have done it in the boat they had, which was over 30 feet, and went on to buy a sub 30 footer to repeat the challenge.
A sailor who is doing his first offshore solo trip in a 32 foot boat that he has repaired upgraded and prepared himself, is far more challenged than an experienced offshore sailor in a 30 foot racing machine, it seems many would judge and or exclude the former due to some arbitrary measurement which was itself created to exclude a certain class of sailors.
Consider this...a sailor on a boat which is bigger or better equipped than the original "Jester" is not really doing a true "Jester" challenge...
Many of the past Jesters have been over 30 feet, and indeed over 32 feet.
What harm has it done to anyone? I suspect there are some who have done it in the boat they had, which was over 30 feet, and went on to buy a sub 30 footer to repeat the challenge.
A sailor who is doing his first offshore solo trip in a 32 foot boat that he has repaired upgraded and prepared himself, is far more challenged than an experienced offshore sailor in a 30 foot racing machine, it seems many would judge and or exclude the former due to some arbitrary measurement which was itself created to exclude a certain class of sailors.
Consider this...a sailor on a boat which is bigger or better equipped than the original "Jester" is not really doing a true "Jester" challenge...
gaylord694
Member
Yes totally agree with your statement that if it's bigger than the original 30ft length agreed upon they actually haven't completed or even started the Jester challenge.. I don't make the rules but I can see there has to be a cut-off length somewhere and being 30ft that's a fair size otherwise you start letting 32feet boats , 33,34,35,s start moaning why can't they do it ... No sorry fairs fair to the organisers I think 30ft is reasonable after all they've a lot to sort out