Bad seamanship caught on film ?

[DAKA]

Dylan , I'm not sure if you are going to agree with me or not but I am confident other stinkers will share my thoughts so its probably better out in the open between mates, please dont shoot the messenger , its meant as helpful constructive criticism and not a complaint ,but I couldnt help but notice your position in the channel is very central which is great for filming but not entirely without problems.....

I used to spend a lot of time on the Ouse and Trent in a 20 year old 31foot Corniche (a real classic).
I regularly would cruise round a bend @ 25knots to find a dilatory boat in the central channel not allowing adequate room for safe passage either side, more often than not it would be a 60ft narrow boat that would panic, turn broadside on to the current and risk grounding as the current deposits them on the inside bend.

May I suggest you navigate to your side of the channel, and move to the extreme side when passing another boat.

Obviously dont risk grounding, just stay to your side of the channel, not central.

It was this bit that I noticed your position, between trent falls and goole, a very wide channel, high tide (note green reeds) where you would have been safe very close to the bank, perhaps a one off and not just a bad habit so I apologise if its not your normal but if it is , it could explain why you keep having run ins with mobos.

When the current is flooding dont worry if you encounter a fast boat punching the flood in the opposite direction, the skipper will be aware his wash will be taken away by the flood and he is able to continue at speed much closer than you would normally expect , without any wash carrying on to cause you a problem.

 

[dylanwinter]

coming around a bend at 25 knots....

what can I say?

"I regularly would cruise round a bend @ 25knots to find a dilatory boat in the central channel not allowing adequate room for safe passage either side"

 

[smth448]

I think you had better watch out for any Billy Goats Gruff coming over your bridge

 

[DAKA]

Thats the one Dylan, great film, loved watching it

Note 1:55 , bang slap in the middle of the navigable bit. I know its quiet most the time but best to be to the side ready for an oncoming boat.
Gravel barges could cause you a real problem if you are in the middle.

 

[greggron]

"I regularly would cruise round a bend @ 25knots to find a dilatory boat in the central channel not allowing adequate room for safe passage either side"


If that happens regularly, do you think you might be travelling too fast given your lack of visibility? And is that good seamanship irrespective of the seamanship of the other party? What if you encountered a boat of any description that was not under command having suffered engine failure for example.

You might notice, I am a rag and stick man. The words cruising and 25Knots are rarely uttered in the same breath in my world

 

[FWB]

What is the speed limit ?

Found this, is it relevant ?

http://environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/recreation/131714.aspx

 

[DAKA]

"I regularly would cruise round a bend @ 25knots to find a dilatory boat in the central channel not allowing adequate room for safe passage either side"


If that happens regularly, do you think you might be travelling too fast given your lack of visibility? And is that good seamanship irrespective of the seamanship of the other party? What if you encountered a boat of any description that was not under command having suffered engine failure for example.

You might notice, I am a rag and stick man. The words cruising and 25Knots are rarely uttered in the same breath in my world

This really wasnt meant to cause a ding dong.

I will try to explain but really dont want to get trapped here all day !

I suspected you guys hadnt given this enough though.

We are inland now on Rivers, although Dylan wasnt on the trent at the time he was very close to it.

Flood runs @ 11mph according to this.

I suspect the Ouse is almost as fast during spring tides.

Dylan has to navigate with flood or he will go backwards.

I guess he does 8knots and is used to 'driving' at 8 knots.
But lets add the flood of 10knots which puts dylan @ 18knots over the ground (round a bend), he is not used to that speed and he shouldnt be sauntering along a tranquil river in the middle !

As to my 25 knots, deduct the 10 flood and I am slower than dylan !


Dylan by all means take the whats er name, let the trolls play but please take on board the simple message " keep to the side ready for oncomming traffic "

 

[DAKA]

What is the speed limit ?

Found this, is it relevant ?

http://environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/recreation/131714.aspx

It could have changed in the last few years but I think you will find teh EA do not control the Trent falls area.
ABP do .


ALL speeds could be exaggerated, but please adjust as you see fit.

 

[Racecruiser]

What is the speed limit ?

Found this, is it relevant ?

http://environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/recreation/131714.aspx

Can this Daka bloke be serious? I was thinking there must be speed limits on the Ouse and you seem to have confirmed that. I'll just stop there except to say that his link to a Corniche doesn't look much like a classic to me - more a bog standard patio door mobo. I do admire some classic motor boats but that one is lost on me.

 

[l'escargot]

...Gravel barges could cause you a real problem if you are in the middle.

A gravel barge could cause you a real problem if you came round the corner at 25 knots and found it in the middle of the river...

 

[Bajansailor]

RC, dont worry, Daka is only a serious wind up merchant who takes perverse delight in baiting raggies.
He cant help it, it must be in his blood.
He is not the messenger that he claims to be in his original post - he is the Instigator.
"Helpful constructive criticism?"
Ha Ha!
As they say, "Don't feed the troll".
Pete will come back now, all indignant about how he is being picked on unfairly.
Oh Pete, where would we be without you for entertainment?

Pete, if you really want to be 'helpful and constructive', and contribute something useful to yachting society , why don't you invite some raggies to go with you on your nice mobo to Henry's Bash in Cowes?
Seajet should be top of your list of folk to invite - he has noted that he will not be able to attend, because his boat is out of the water now.
I am sure that the two of you will get on famously, and become best mates.

Note the 's above - here are a few more Pete -
Its not serious!

 

[DAKA]

Can this Daka bloke be serious? .

Yes. With a little humour and exaggeration. You should be able to understand the navigation warning. You really don't want to be navigating in the centre of the river. You are travelling
much faster than you are used to and will not be able to get out of harms way.

 

[Croak]

Most of these 25 knot boats have an audible warning device, that you can hear for well over 1000m, called an engine.

Plenty of time to get out of the way.

 

[DAKA]

Most of these 25 knot boats have an audible warning device, that you can hear for well over 1000m, called an engine.

Plenty of time to get out of the way.

I like your humour .

Just for the record, you will not hear a stinker coming by engine noise, on a very very calm still day you might here water noise but unlikley to carry round a bend.

You cant actually get out of teh way, thats why I am posting, you only get one chance to pass.........


You are travelling up river with flood behind you.

If you turn round 180 degrees and run away you will still be heading into danger as the current is faster than dylans boat.


Hopefully the boat punching the flood will be able to slow and hold station but that still leave you with the problem to get to your side of teh channel as you close ever closer.

I have huge experience of narrow boaters used to 4-6 mph getting themselves into all sorts of messes as they get broad side on to the flow.


Remember the boat punching the flood can easily stop and hold station as he is on a reversing conveyor belt of water !

The punching boat can not go backwards as he runs the risk of being pushed aground so he will hold station until you ground on the inner bank.

Easily avoided if you stay on your side of the channel .............hence the post .

I really wish scuttlebutts would just stop agreeing with each other for time to think before shouting troll (not aimed at you croak, that was a funny response)

 

[Dave_Seager]

Flood runs @ 11mph according to this.

I guess he does 8knots and is used to 'driving' at 8 knots.
But lets add the flood of 10knots which puts dylan @ 18knots over the ground (round a bend), he is not used to that speed and he shouldnt be sauntering along a tranquil river in the middle !

As to my 25 knots, deduct the 10 flood and I am slower than dylan !

I hope that the rest of your navigation is better than this. What the site referenced actually says is "Twice a day tidal surges from the Humber come up the Trent at around 11 m.p.h., i.e. eleven miles further up the river the tide arrives one hour later."

We have a similar situation on the River Thames. High Water at Richmond is about 1 hour later than at London Bridge. The distance is about 20 miles but this does NOT mean that we have a 20 knot tidal stream flowing upriver! It is more like 2 or 3 knots.

 

[dylanwinter]

wrong film

I think what I am doing here is much, much worse

make sure you click the film to 720 to appreciate the full adrenalin rush

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/blogs/aire-drift/

Dylan

 

[NealB]

Remember the boat punching the flood can easily stop and hold station as he is on a reversing conveyor belt of water !

I may well be misunderstanding you on this, but, it seems to me that both boats are on exactly the same 'conveyor belt'. There is therefore effectively no current when considering the collision risk between those two vessels.

If you 'hold station', I assume you mean that your boat will not be moving with respect to the land. It is, however, still moving through the water at 8 knots, towards the other boat.

To avoid collision, you would be better to throttle right back, and/ or change course.

 

[chris46]

what can I say?

"I regularly would cruise round a bend @ 25knots to find a dilatory boat in the central channel not allowing adequate room for safe passage either side"

truly excellent video,and the scenery and views are spectacular ,great stuff

 

[Momac]

What is the speed limit ?

On the Ouse below Goole bridge and the Trent below Gainsbrough bridge there are no speed restrictions.

 

[dylanwinter]

that was my understanding

On the Ouse below Goole bridge and the Trent below Gainsbrough bridge there are no speed restrictions.

that was my understanding

and there are so few mobos around that the odd one blatting past does not bother me one bit

it seems a shame to hurry past all that lovely scenery though ....

however, as you say they are allowed to go as fast as they like

but I spend whole days on the river and never see another boat apart from the commercials - above Goole never seen anything at all

the film was shot at neaps - so the Ouse is running at about four knots

Katie L full blat does six

normal motoring speed is a steady four

on an empty river it makes sense to motor up the middle of the current where it runs strongest

as you can see in the shots - plenty of view both up and down stream so loads of time to get clear of anything doing a reasonable speed

even 25 knots assuming that is a reasonable speed

if any of you get a chance to explore the Trent and Ouse they are both lovely rivers


and most lift or bilge keel yachts can handle the currents without any trouble at all

there are blokes at Brough with 18 footers that have 3 hp outboards

Dylan