Atalanta of Chester/Hanne Knutsen trial

[l'escargot]

Not my recent experience.
No doubt some ships not constrained by draught can go at almost any time but it is clear to me from personal observation that most large deep draught vessels arrive and leave the Solent nearer high water than low water.
Not only that, but when listening to Southampton VTS it appears they have a pretty good idea of ship movements prior to their departure.
Be interesting to hear from a pilot......................

I said you would be surprised. I've probably transited that area about a 100 times this year in small boats, not counting the ferry crossings and probably drive along from Gurnard to Cowes a couple of times a week. There are boats in and out at all states of the tide these days. You can see the movements here:
http://www.southamptonvts.co.uk/Liv...s_and_Cruise_Ship_Schedule/Planned_Movements/ you can also see the timings don't relate to tide times.

 

[l'escargot]

Don't know about 'required', but certainly they often do have tugs, yes.



VTS aim to have their launch precede all clear-channel vessels, but don't guarantee it if the launch is not available for some reason. It is usually there.



They talk on ch12; if you're listening you can easily keep yourself aware of what's happening. They don't make announcements as such, and they don't talk on 16 as a rule. I don't think VHF warnings are really necessary to be honest - the ships are hoofing massive, you can't miss them.

Pete

I think the tugs and escort launches are specified over a certain size and they give security broadcasts at regular intervals on channel 12 which include imminent shipping movements

 

[chewi]

you can't miss them.

Most manage to. Atalanta of Chester didn't!

 

[rotrax]

Most manage to. Atalanta of Chester didn't!

Exactly!

 

[fireball]

Briefly going back to the Cowes Week or Commercial Traffic argument - and the potential to "close the solent" to one or other ...

Don't you think this may be why an ABP pilot is allocated to the Cowes Week race committee - to try and avoid racing fleets and ships wanting to use the same water at the same time ...

It's not as though the commercial traffic doesn't know Cowes Week is taking place - the amount of time spent in the precautionary area by a racing yacht is quite small really - so there is time for commercial shipping to pass through without huge disruption to the racing fleet.
The only arrogance I can see is from posters here suggesting that either racing or commercial takes priority - in reality we have the two parties working closely together to avoid the need to exclude one party or the other.

 

[flaming]

Briefly going back to the Cowes Week or Commercial Traffic argument - and the potential to "close the solent" to one or other ...

Don't you think this may be why an ABP pilot is allocated to the Cowes Week race committee - to try and avoid racing fleets and ships wanting to use the same water at the same time ...

It's not as though the commercial traffic doesn't know Cowes Week is taking place - the amount of time spent in the precautionary area by a racing yacht is quite small really - so there is time for commercial shipping to pass through without huge disruption to the racing fleet.
The only arrogance I can see is from posters here suggesting that either racing or commercial takes priority - in reality we have the two parties working closely together to avoid the need to exclude one party or the other.

I completely agree. Just in case it was misconstrued I was in no way saying racing should take precedence, just questioning those who say it would have to be moved if ABP kicked up a stink after the end of this trial.

BTW, does anyone know of any reporting on what happened at the trial yesterday?

 

[colingr]

Some of the larger container / tankers can only get in at certain states of the tide. The clearance is pretty close at times although I don't know if that was relevant in this case. So sometimes commercial traffic, once committed just has to complete their journey and really cannot deviate from a very strict course.

I, personally, cannot see any sense in closing the Solent to commercial traffic for a sailing regatta, however well known.

 

[colingr]

BTW, does anyone know of any reporting on what happened at the trial yesterday?

Al very quiet, nothing on local news last night either.

 

[fireball]

Some of the larger container / tankers can only get in at certain states of the tide. The clearance is pretty close at times although I don't know if that was relevant in this case. So sometimes commercial traffic, once committed just has to complete their journey and really cannot deviate from a very strict course.

I, personally, cannot see any sense in closing the Solent to commercial traffic for a sailing regatta, however well known.

Then it makes sense for ABP to liaise with the regatta organisers to ensure conflicts do not occur - it's not about "closing" the solent ...

 

[Seajet]

Maybe there needs to be some compromise on both ' sides '; while I generally think racing should be arranged to avoid commercial traffic - out of courtesy and self preservation - it has often struck me as a bit daft when I see a big ship setting off during the well advertised events like RTIR, a safe bet that is decided by ship owners not their skippers.

However I don't try my luck passing in front of lorries on a space hopper trying to win space hopper club points.

 

[colingr]

Couldn't agree more. A bit of liaison goes a long way, plus a decent briefing to the competitors as to the local conditions / regs would also help. I'm sure a lot have never sailed the area before. Of course that may already happen.

 

[Seajet]

Flaming and L'escargot can say more, but I think the Cowes clubs do pretty thorough briefings on this sort of thing.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Flaming and L'escargot can say more, but I think the Cowes clubs do pretty thorough briefings on this sort of thing.

Gliders from the Ulster Gliding Club hill soar a ridge which is spang across the approach to Londonderry (Eglinton) airport. When commercial traffic is in- or outbound, a radio call is made and the swarm of gliders parts like the Red Sea.

 

[flaming]

Flaming can say more, but I think the Cowes clubs do pretty thorough briefings on this sort of thing.

There is a Cowes week briefing, but it's not especially well attended. Most competitors have been sailing in the Solent for years. Probably worth mentioning that this applies to the gent in question. Although I've never met him off the water, I'd been racing against him all season prior to Cowes week, and I think most of the previous one too, which is mainly why I found the initial braying on here that it was "racers pushing their luck" so objectionable. They just never struck me as risk takers.

There are, and have been for as long as I can remember, large parts of the SIs of Cowes week related to the precautionary zone, including diagrams.

 

[A1Sailor]

Flaming and L'escargot can say more, but I think the Cowes clubs do pretty thorough briefings on this sort of thing.

Like this, perhaps?

We've set the course so that you'll all have to cross a shipping channel with a tanker in it.
Good luck.

 

[Seajet]

There are good briefings I understand - I'm surprised they're not mandatory mind - and things like charts, Notices To Mariners, not to mention painting some ships red with launches & flashing lights around, how much more of a clue do people want ?!

 

[flaming]

Like this, perhaps? We've set the course so that you'll all have to cross a shipping channel with a tanker in it.
Good luck.

Have you ever raced at Cowes week?

 

[the lloyds]

notwithstanding all this, it is possible to get this wrong even when you have passed across this area many times.[though not as spectacularly usually]. The other day with an empty Solent we were tacking up towards the Bramble cardinal from the west. A large ship was approaching in front of Cowes.

I was aware of the 1000 yard zone etc. I decided that as he was going to start swinging to starboard to make his turn I would tack towards the Island shore to keep out of his way. Imagine my horror when instead of starting to make his turn as normal, the ship continued close alomg the island shore for much longer than I would have expectedand at high speed and in fact seemed to be swinging in further that way. I had the speed to make it in front of him [just] but it would have looked to the casual observer is if I was chucking myself under his bows deliberately when in fact I was trying to get out of the way , my ultimate destination being Hamble.

It was all very unpleasant and lots of harsh words exchanged on board our yacht about my error of judgement. Eventually he did turn towards Calshot but he took a huge arc to do so. Oddly the next time I was out, I was coming from Hamble and crossing inside the cardinal on the edge of Bramble Bank. The tanker that came out of Southampton flew down the zone and managed a tight handbrake turn on the cardinal so much so that I had to turn circles to pass by his stern.

Its quite tricky anticipating future plans of shipping in this area, and during the added distraction of racing one can see the possibilities for getting it wrong.

 

[A1Sailor]

Have you ever raced at Cowes week?

Nope - that's why I asked if the briefings were like my post. Are they?

 

[l'escargot]

Al very quiet, nothing on local news last night either.

I messaged the reporter last night but haven't heard anything back yet.