jimi
Well-known member
suppose a more generic strategy might be to dress up as Ossama bin Laden whilst helming, might also make entering Portsmouth or Gareloch a tad more exciting?
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At what distance...
- Thread starter jimi
- Start date
brianhumber
New member
Re: Ditto with Peppermint on this one NM
NM
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NM
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jamesjermain
Active member
PS
Having recently crossed Biscay with a MARPA set on board I have to say it was brilliant - if you can afford one get one.
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Having recently crossed Biscay with a MARPA set on board I have to say it was brilliant - if you can afford one get one.
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jimi
Well-known member
Re: Varies
Point your bows at his stern thing is OK when altering course to starboard to go behind, I get very uncomfortable with that strategy when it entails an alteration of course to port to go behind. In that situation I'd rather have done an early and substantial change of course .. rather add 10 mins extra on the water than have a too close encounter
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Point your bows at his stern thing is OK when altering course to starboard to go behind, I get very uncomfortable with that strategy when it entails an alteration of course to port to go behind. In that situation I'd rather have done an early and substantial change of course .. rather add 10 mins extra on the water than have a too close encounter
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ParaHandy
Active member
in fog ... assuming the ship is 'seen' at 6 nm range and if 3 to 5 min later confirm collision then I would reverse course as fast as pos .... especially if ship was approx 3 nm away ..
personally, don't think you have more than 5 min if vessel approaching is doing 25+ kn and you are on a collision course ........
i'm reluctant to believe that a good target would be seen at 12nm range. with a bit of roll, the target will come and go .... the chances are that i'd be on 6nm range anyway looking at several, some perhaps smaller, targets ....
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personally, don't think you have more than 5 min if vessel approaching is doing 25+ kn and you are on a collision course ........
i'm reluctant to believe that a good target would be seen at 12nm range. with a bit of roll, the target will come and go .... the chances are that i'd be on 6nm range anyway looking at several, some perhaps smaller, targets ....
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ParaHandy
Active member
but he might get cold or wet if his steering position was visible and open to the elements ......... ?
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claymore
Well-known member
New Trend
Bolloxing your own threads.
So I may as well continue - whit a stupid post it was anyways - any daft eejit kens that ye aim tae miss whitever ye see sae whits ra prablem. Weel - I'll tell ye ra problem - yer back at wairk an bored an jes sat there thinkin o a' manner o daft things tae sae
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple>regards
Claymore<font color=purple>
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Bolloxing your own threads.
So I may as well continue - whit a stupid post it was anyways - any daft eejit kens that ye aim tae miss whitever ye see sae whits ra prablem. Weel - I'll tell ye ra problem - yer back at wairk an bored an jes sat there thinkin o a' manner o daft things tae sae
<hr width=100% size=1><font color=purple>regards
Claymore<font color=purple>
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IanR
Member
Hit Men
I came back across the channel Friday and avoided a couple of similar sized ships after watching them on Radar (Weather was fine and clear but it is an accurate way of plotting
A, their speed
B, their crossing distance ahead or behind
and it was otherwise a boring trip.
It was interesting to compare the various speeds of the ships some doing between 8 and 20+ knots and so time is more of the essence than just distance. Either way I would want to pass at least half a mile of Obvious clearance.
Sometimes it just doesn't matter, when we were standon vessel we had about 50:50 of vessels altering course early and obviously and 50% that simply ploughed on regardless or did nothing within 1 mile. We then ensured that we took obvious avoiding action.
One example of the latter was a ship that having passed / ignored us proceeded on to a collision course with the Portsmouth Express (PX) coming from Cherbourg. The traffic on Ch16 was worthy of a recording which unfortunately I had no way of taking, the gist was 2 calls on Ch 16 to vessel in position xxxx with no response and then presumably an AIS assisted call by actual name, course and speed which was ignored once and finally answered. The PX then informed the ship that he was on his stbd beam and that a risk of collision existed, to which there was no reply then when PX challenged the give way vessel for for his intentions there was simply a staggering feat of indifference when the officer on watch asked what he should do about it. The ironic response from the PX (at 35+ Knots) was that as the give way vessel the other ship must alter course. The saga went on as the ship then altered course to port which extended the risk of collision and caused the PX to call up some 3 minutes later with an urgent "Just what do you think your are doing".
Its a longer story than that, which a number of yachts overheard but the outcome was a miss by less than one third of a mile as measured by my Radar with the PX popping across the bows of the Ankara (whoops did not mean to give the name away).
The point is do not assume that a lookout is being kept or that the OOW has radio or visual watch properly in operation.
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I came back across the channel Friday and avoided a couple of similar sized ships after watching them on Radar (Weather was fine and clear but it is an accurate way of plotting
A, their speed
B, their crossing distance ahead or behind
and it was otherwise a boring trip.
It was interesting to compare the various speeds of the ships some doing between 8 and 20+ knots and so time is more of the essence than just distance. Either way I would want to pass at least half a mile of Obvious clearance.
Sometimes it just doesn't matter, when we were standon vessel we had about 50:50 of vessels altering course early and obviously and 50% that simply ploughed on regardless or did nothing within 1 mile. We then ensured that we took obvious avoiding action.
One example of the latter was a ship that having passed / ignored us proceeded on to a collision course with the Portsmouth Express (PX) coming from Cherbourg. The traffic on Ch16 was worthy of a recording which unfortunately I had no way of taking, the gist was 2 calls on Ch 16 to vessel in position xxxx with no response and then presumably an AIS assisted call by actual name, course and speed which was ignored once and finally answered. The PX then informed the ship that he was on his stbd beam and that a risk of collision existed, to which there was no reply then when PX challenged the give way vessel for for his intentions there was simply a staggering feat of indifference when the officer on watch asked what he should do about it. The ironic response from the PX (at 35+ Knots) was that as the give way vessel the other ship must alter course. The saga went on as the ship then altered course to port which extended the risk of collision and caused the PX to call up some 3 minutes later with an urgent "Just what do you think your are doing".
Its a longer story than that, which a number of yachts overheard but the outcome was a miss by less than one third of a mile as measured by my Radar with the PX popping across the bows of the Ankara (whoops did not mean to give the name away).
The point is do not assume that a lookout is being kept or that the OOW has radio or visual watch properly in operation.
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Oldhand
New member
<Despite the rules, my plan of attack would be to do a 180 turn if there was any doubt.>
and pile into the one crossing astern? No wonder ships ignore pleasure craft in collision situations.
My expereinces of crossing the English channel are that any aviodance action taken for one ship probably has to take into consideration at least two others. As a result one has to try and work out a manouvre that avoids the first but doesn't put you into danger of collision with other vessels in the lane. This more often than not determines how close I allow a ship to pass.
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and pile into the one crossing astern? No wonder ships ignore pleasure craft in collision situations.
My expereinces of crossing the English channel are that any aviodance action taken for one ship probably has to take into consideration at least two others. As a result one has to try and work out a manouvre that avoids the first but doesn't put you into danger of collision with other vessels in the lane. This more often than not determines how close I allow a ship to pass.
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Captain_Chaos
Member
Re: Hit Men.. Double standards?
The irritating thing about this is that the vessel causing the problems in this example will, presumably, continue to sail the seven seas until it hits something.
Wasn't there an example recently of a yacht skipper being charged and fined for not crossing a shipping lane at 90 degrees?
Is this a case of double standards?
I suppose it is much easier to kick a yottie and make a political point than do something about a skipper of some old freighter sailing under a flag of convenience who could have caused a major incident.
<hr width=100% size=1>74.56% of all statistics are made up.
The irritating thing about this is that the vessel causing the problems in this example will, presumably, continue to sail the seven seas until it hits something.
Wasn't there an example recently of a yacht skipper being charged and fined for not crossing a shipping lane at 90 degrees?
Is this a case of double standards?
I suppose it is much easier to kick a yottie and make a political point than do something about a skipper of some old freighter sailing under a flag of convenience who could have caused a major incident.
<hr width=100% size=1>74.56% of all statistics are made up.
Oldhand
New member
I was doing the radrar 3 plots at 6 minute intervals job returning from Cherbourg a few weeks ago but got overwhelmed with about 10 ships to watch. I thus began only plotting those I expected to be a problem with the relationship of the shipping lanes and my course. When taking a breather up top and telling my wife what "targets" to look out for, she piped up "what about that one", pointing to a monster tanker heading SE across the WSW heading shipping lane and on our port side. Mark one eyeball indicated a collision situation and with the tanker calling a ferry heading south about 3 miles on our stb'd side on VHF, was obviously ignoring us. Of course the avoiding action I had to take threw all my plots of "expected" dangerous targets up the spout... it wasn't a good day and that was with 4 miles viz.
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Gunfleet
New member
Night watch
surely it's at 'which' distance Jimi. By the way I find it easier at night. If I can see a red and green light I know I'm in trouble. If I can see a red or green one I know I'm not.
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surely it's at 'which' distance Jimi. By the way I find it easier at night. If I can see a red and green light I know I'm in trouble. If I can see a red or green one I know I'm not.
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ParaHandy
Active member
Re: Hit Men
would the ship be a medium sized (30,000 t) container ship flying bahamas flag? wonder if the Portsmuff Express will file an incident report with MAIB ....
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would the ship be a medium sized (30,000 t) container ship flying bahamas flag? wonder if the Portsmuff Express will file an incident report with MAIB ....
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stephenmartin
New member
Re: Night watch
In the short time I've been sailing/mobo-ing I've crossed the channel on a number of occasions allways picking my weather. I prefer night crossings because its easier to see all ships and lights from miles away...but you do arrive totaly shagged out even with watches.....Touch wood no near misses and steer well clear of other boats....especially the big ones....Don't have a radar.....when I get one I'd like to black the windows out to see how i get on.....can't be any worse than setting off into the night....the first time was scary....but Jack Daniels helped
<hr width=100% size=1>Don't make the same mistake twice...Make a different one
In the short time I've been sailing/mobo-ing I've crossed the channel on a number of occasions allways picking my weather. I prefer night crossings because its easier to see all ships and lights from miles away...but you do arrive totaly shagged out even with watches.....Touch wood no near misses and steer well clear of other boats....especially the big ones....Don't have a radar.....when I get one I'd like to black the windows out to see how i get on.....can't be any worse than setting off into the night....the first time was scary....but Jack Daniels helped
<hr width=100% size=1>Don't make the same mistake twice...Make a different one
LadyInBed
Well-known member
I am quite happy for them to pass half a mile from me. I find in almost all instances that I have under estimated their speed so they normally pass ahead, so my usual course of action if I think they are going to be within my half a mile comfort zone is to maintain course but slacken sheets to reduce speed, reduce the genoa area and start the engine.
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peterb
New member
...shall not impede....
I'm intrigued to know what meaning you attach to Rule 10(j): "A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of any vessel following a traffic lane."
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I'm intrigued to know what meaning you attach to Rule 10(j): "A vessel of less than 20 metres in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of any vessel following a traffic lane."
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rwoofer
Active member
Does everyone spend so much time in front of the radar?
I only just about get enough time to see if anything is on the radar in order to pick it up visually. If I was to try and plot things I would be fixed to it all the time....
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I only just about get enough time to see if anything is on the radar in order to pick it up visually. If I was to try and plot things I would be fixed to it all the time....
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muchy_
New member
When you see the whites of their eyes.
<hr width=100% size=1>Is it the weekend yet?
<hr width=100% size=1>Is it the weekend yet?
bedouin
Well-known member
Re: ...shall not impede....
The definition of "not to impede" is given in the rules.
8(f)(i) A vessel which, by any of these rules, is required not to impede the passage or safe passage of another vessel shall, when required by the circumstances of the case, take early action to allow sufficient sea-room for the safe passage of the other vessel.
But
8(f)(iii) A vessel the passage of which is not to be impeded remains fully obliged to comply with the rules of this part when the two vessels are approaching one another so as to involve risk of collision.
The requirement "not to impede" is a lot less strict than most people realise, all it requires you to do is to ensure that the vessel of passage has sufficient sea room. If the vessel can safely take avoiding action then there is no need for the vessel required not to impede to do anything.
If the intention of the rules were to make the vessel required "not to impede" the give way vessel then it would say that.
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The definition of "not to impede" is given in the rules.
8(f)(i) A vessel which, by any of these rules, is required not to impede the passage or safe passage of another vessel shall, when required by the circumstances of the case, take early action to allow sufficient sea-room for the safe passage of the other vessel.
But
8(f)(iii) A vessel the passage of which is not to be impeded remains fully obliged to comply with the rules of this part when the two vessels are approaching one another so as to involve risk of collision.
The requirement "not to impede" is a lot less strict than most people realise, all it requires you to do is to ensure that the vessel of passage has sufficient sea room. If the vessel can safely take avoiding action then there is no need for the vessel required not to impede to do anything.
If the intention of the rules were to make the vessel required "not to impede" the give way vessel then it would say that.
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Gunfleet
New member
you\'re a very gloomy man, para NM
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