ARC

[Fr J Hackett]

I have looked a little more, I originally thought that it was a twin wheel twin rudder set up but it is a twin wheel single spade rudder and hanse talk about attachments to a quadrant which if it is a Lewmar Constellation system is a wire linkage. There are too many unknowns to speculate on what broke so I will stop digging.

 

[mikegunn]

I have looked a little more, I originally thought that it was a twin wheel twin rudder set up but it is a twin wheel single spade rudder and hanse talk about attachments to a quadrant which if it is a Lewmar Constellation system is a wire linkage. There are too many unknowns to speculate on what broke so I will stop digging.

I am surprised however that no mention has been made of an emergency steering arrangement. Twin wheel, single rudder linkages must necessarily be fairly complex, with perhaps several possible failure modes. Therefore it is imperative that any emergency tiller acts directly on the rudder post, by-passing any linkages. On my own vessel, which has wheel steering, I keep an appropriate spanner taped to the final connecting rod so that the rudder post can be isolated from all of the steering linkage.

Mike

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I am surprised however that no mention has been made of an emergency steering arrangement. Twin wheel, single rudder linkages must necessarily be fairly complex, with perhaps several possible failure modes. Therefore it is imperative that any emergency tiller acts directly on the rudder post, by-passing any linkages. On my own vessel, which has wheel steering, I keep an appropriate spanner taped to the final connecting rod so that the rudder post can be isolated from all of the steering linkage.

Mike

It seems when the second steering failed it damaged the emergency steering and it was at that point they decided to abandon. As I said earlier there is a back story to this and one that I am sure we will not get to fully know.

My boat had the Lewmar Cobra system of tie rods but had a massive emergency tiller which could be dropped onto the head of the rudder stock. It would have been difficult but not impossible to disconnect the tie rods under the pedestal and a lot more difficult to do it at the rudder but I did it several times at the pontoon so knew just what was involved.

 

[ds797]

Also happened to "Dove II" another recent 50ft Hanse in 2017 many links available via google etc but here's a starter:

Rudder problems on Atlantic Crossing - DOVE II

I have always liked the look of Hanse but am really wondering about their rudders!

 

[Fr J Hackett]

To be fair this looks like a failure of the steering gear as opposed to the rudder.

 

[Seven Spades]

I don't know why more boats don't use rod steering and Mamba drives they are built proof.

Mamba Drives | Lewmar

 

[robmcg]

Does the Hanse use Jefa steering?

 

[Ningaloo]

Does the Hanse use Jefa steering?

I am on my second new Hanse, the current one is a 458. Both my boats have had (and I believe all Hanses have) twin wheel, single rudder setup.
The rudder, steering and (on both my boats) the autopilot are supplied by Jefa. I have cable/chain steering so both wheels are connected and a cable failure knocks both wheels out. Emergency steering is available using a tiller that drops onto the rudder post, but I wouldn't fancy using this for long on a boat of this size. The autopilot drives the quadrant so in the event of a cable failure this should take over. 80% of my sailing is probably using autopilot and I'm guessing that this would be the default steering mode on the ARC.

The Hanse owners forum has also covered this and I understand that Hanse may have switched from a Jefa autopilot to a Lewmar unit for the 588. The general feeling is that the Jefa unit is superior. There are also some owners who believe that the 508 is fitted with an underpowered Jefa autopilot - it's the same one that is fitted to my 458 and so far I have had no issues.

I don't know the 588 but from reading the reports it does appear that the wheels are not connected. Certainly the description of one side failing followed by the other suggested some degree of independence here.

I have bought my own boat with a vague plan of sailing it to my home in Australia. At the moment I'm happy to have made it to the Med, but I think I would seriously consider a Hydrovane for ocean passages, primarily to reduce power consumption but also to act as an emergency rudder if the worst were to happen.

 

[dunedin]

Again I don’t think that stacks up. On the ARC I did, there were TWO independent non-ARC boats that were assisted by ARC boats, and one escorted for a week by an ARC boat until reached safety. They were lucky that the excellent commas network of the ARC could arrange to divert boats to their assistance.

And just today a report of another independent crossing boat being rescued and towed for 24 hours into Grenada by an ARC+ boat. The casualty was a French singlehander on a boat which lost its mast.

 

[Wing Mark]

Surely worth putting trackers on some of these boats and salvaging them?

How much is yacht insurance for the ARC?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Surely worth putting trackers on some of these boats and salvaging them?

How much is yacht insurance for the ARC?

They all have trackers as a condition of entry but have you any idea of the costs of mounting a mid Atlantic salvage operation. I suppose one could go out there in ones Centaur with the garage tool kit though.

 

[Wing Mark]

They all have trackers as a condition of entry but have you any idea of the costs of mounting a mid Atlantic salvage operation. I suppose one could go out there in ones Centaur with the garage tool kit though.

I was thinking more in terms of a freighter passing that way could pick one up as a bonus...
Or do they eventually drift anywhere more convenient?
Bermuda Triangle I 'spose!

 

[ashtead]

Out of curiosity does the collective wisdom believe a hydrovane would have helped ? At circa £6k a modest investment if it did?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Don't think so on a 50 foot plus boat and you need to lock off the rudder. Other wind vanes are available that would steer such a boat but no doubt they would be considered as ruining the lines and bathing platform.

 

[Wing Mark]

Out of curiosity does the collective wisdom believe a hydrovane would have helped ? At circa £6k a modest investment if it did?

Some pintles on the transom and a bit of bodgery prepared?

If theproblem is turning the rudder stock, that should be prepared for?
If the whole rudder has been eaten by sharks, bit harder to sort out.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Some pintles on the transom and a bit of bodgery prepared?

If theproblem is turning the rudder stock, that should be prepared for?
If the whole rudder has been eaten by sharks, bit harder to sort out.

Being quite unkind I would imagine the owner of a Hanse 588 wouldn't know what a pintle was if you stuffed it up his arse let alone be the sort of person into a bit of bodging ( had to be careful with the spell checker there)

 

[ashtead]

I asked as I saw another entrant on a somewhat smaller Mass market boat fitting one before they left UK and it seemed like a good idea for longer passages .

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I asked as I saw another entrant on a somewhat smaller Mass market boat fitting one before they left UK and it seemed like a good idea for longer passages .

It would be I sailed thousands of miles with one.

 

[dunedin]

It would be I sailed thousands of miles with one.

On the crossing I did, it seemed that statistically there was a higher percentage of problems with wind vane steering than with autopilots.

But clearly in an ideal world twin independent rudders mounted on the transom, like an old Open 60, might be best

 

[Fr J Hackett]

On the crossing I did, it seemed that statistically there was a higher percentage of problems with wind vane steering than with autopilots.

But clearly in an ideal world twin independent rudders mounted on the transom, like an old Open 60, might be best

I have never understood that I have always put it down to inexperience and lack of understanding in how they work.