ARC

[Laser310]

I raced once on a Hanse, and was not very impressed.

most of the gear -winches, clutches... etc. - was under sized for the job, and I didn't feel that the construction generally was that great.

It's easy for me to imagine that the steering on this boat was under-built for ocean sailing.

without a robust emergency steering system that has been built for the task before leaving the dock, most boats that loose steering more than a few hundred miles from land will end up abandoned. Modern fin-keel boats simply do not track well without rudders and it is difficult to rig something that works - much more difficult than on a more traditional full keel boat. I'm not saying it's impossible...

 

[Graham376]

What they do is vastly inflate our insurance premiums. Not trying to troll here, but I think the ethos of the ARC engenders the antithesis of good seamanship and self-reliance and I lament its creation.

Not having been in their position, I don't know what I would have done but, there may well be an argument from insurers that they were in no immediate danger and should have requested a tow when suitable vessel could get to them.

 

[capnsensible]

I raced once on a Hanse, and was not very impressed.

most of the gear -winches, clutches... etc. - was under sized for the job, and I didn't feel that the construction generally was that great.

It's easy for me to imagine that the steering on this boat was under-built for ocean sailing.

without a robust emergency steering system that has been built for the task before leaving the dock, most boats that loose steering more than a few hundred miles from land will end up abandoned. Modern fin-keel boats simply do not track well without rudders and it is difficult to rig something that works - much more difficult than on a more traditional full keel boat. I'm not saying it's impossible...

Absolutely. Have spent too long in the transom spaces of yachts fixing stuff. Usually autopilot snags. I bet very few people ever climb into the stern spaces to see how their steering actually works.

On my own yacht and on a couple I've delivered, the hydrovane has been sent from gods of the sea to make us humble sailors safe from the raging wind and waves.

 

[capnsensible]

Not having been in their position, I don't know what I would have done but, there may well be an argument from insurers that they were in no immediate danger and should have requested a tow when suitable vessel could get to them.

That would be worth a medal! A tow of over a thousand miles with the hulk rudderless! In those seas too.

Include me out.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Absolutely. Have spent too long in the transom spaces of yachts fixing stuff. Usually autopilot snags. I bet very few people ever climb into the stern spaces to see how their steering actually works.

On my own yacht and on a couple I've delivered, the hydrovane has been sent from gods of the sea to make us humble sailors safe from the raging wind and waves.

And I think that is one of the points made re crossing in the ARC v a solo crossing. There will be more people in the ARC with relatively newer bigger more expensive boats with less experience that just expect the boat to stay in one piece and perform with minimal or no intervention.

 

[kof]

Oops. Sorry.

ok in this case leaving the boat might be the right decision if there was structural failure and water coming in. If the steering just failed but the boat still watertight then I’d look at getting some kind of jury rig going.

Tough call either way.

I think that might have been the earlier incident on a French yacht.

On this one, the twin wheel steering system failed. Bit by bit. When screws or bolts shear, the quadrant fails and bits of the structure that holds the rudder post break, that's virtually impossible to fix with a f7 up the chuff and 4m waves.

Personally I'd be looking at some kind of jury rig and accept Christmas and membe even new year at sea. But the skipper involved chose an option to secure the safety of his crew above saving the yacht. Good call. And not a single one of us knows why the steering failed and what repairs he tried.....

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I would still like to know how and why the steering linkage and quadrant fixing bolts failed on a 50 foot plus several hundred thousand pound yacht failed. There has to be a back story and one that will probably never emerge.

 

[capnsensible]

And I think that is one of the points made re crossing in the ARC v a solo crossing. There will be more people in the ARC with relatively newer bigger more expensive boats with less experience that just expect the boat to stay in one piece and perform with minimal or no intervention.

Mmm. From what I've seen and who I've talked to over the years involved with, and entering the arc, I reckon a lot of the skippers are more experienced than some think. And most have considered various potential snags. But its an ocean.

 

[Laser310]

i think in anything other than calm seas, the yawing on a fin keel boat without a rudder will be extremely uncomfortable.., maybe even dangerous if the accelerations are great enough

 

[capnsensible]

I would still like to know how and why the steering linkage and quadrant fixing bolts failed on a 50 foot plus several hundred thousand pound yacht failed. There has to be a back story and one that will probably never emerge.

Yeah without the yacht drifting ashore somewhere and a loss adjuster investigating, as you say, it will never be known.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Yeah without the yacht drifting ashore somewhere and a loss adjuster investigating, as you say, it will never be known.

It will be a talking and speculation point for quite a while though and one that I expect Hanse will be very keen to understand.

 

[capnsensible]

It will be a talking and speculation point for quite a while though and one that I expect Hanse will be very keen to understand.

Avalook on Google for the report on the sinking of yacht Megawatt in 2005. Smaller hanse but rudder failed. It might interest the engineer in you. Shows manufacturing drawings, photos, quality assurance certs, etc. Interesting read.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Avalook on Google for the report on the sinking of yacht Megawatt in 2005. Smaller hanse but rudder failed. It might interest the engineer in you. Shows manufacturing drawings, photos, quality assurance certs, etc. Interesting read.

An interesting report in many ways from the poor quality of surface finish of the rudder stock, the possibility of galvanic corrosion with a copper based anti foul and of course the retrofitting of the autopilot.

It raises the suspicion and possibility that there will likely have been a similar problem of fitting one or two autopilots to the quadrants that may have weakened the quadrants. All speculation on my part with now evidence I might add but I have seen quadrants drilled and taped to take position sensors and or autopilot rams and never liked the idea.

 

[dunedin]

An interesting report in many ways from the poor quality of surface finish of the rudder stock, the possibility of galvanic corrosion with a copper based anti foul and of course the retrofitting of the autopilot.

It raises the suspicion and possibility that there will likely have been a similar problem of fitting one or two autopilots to the quadrants that may have weakened the quadrants. All speculation on my part with now evidence I might add but I have seen quadrants drilled and taped to take position sensors and or autopilot rams and never liked the idea.

I would kind of suspect that ALL new boats that are big enough to have a rudder quadrant (as opposed to tiller) have a quadrant that is supplied from the manufacturer ready prepared with autopilot ram mountings. Certainly would be standard fit on a big Hanse

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I would kind of suspect that ALL new boats that are big enough to have a rudder quadrant (as opposed to tiller) have a quadrant that is supplied from the manufacturer ready prepared with autopilot ram mountings. Certainly would be standard fit on a big Hanse

As it was fitted with a Lewmar rod linkage the better autopilot and to my mind would be the Lewmar 1/2 Hp motor fitted at the base of the pedestal which the rod linkage then connects to negating any change in the quadrant. The decision I took on a much smaller boat.

 

[Laser310]

what does anyone think is meant by the term "baseplate" in this phrase from the WCC report:

"the steering quadrant came adrift from the baseplate shearing the fixing screws"

 

[Fr J Hackett]

what does anyone think is meant by the term "baseplate" in this phrase from the WCC report:

"the steering quadrant came adrift from the baseplate shearing the fixing screws"

Difficult to say without knowing what the assembly was. In a Lewmar system a rose jointed tie rod attaches to a spigot on an arm that is attached directly to the rudder shaft. This is normally clamped to the rudder stock with a key and keyway stopping any rotation about the stock. I assume (always a dangerous thing) that the arm is what they are referring to as the quadrant. Maybe they are actually referring to the assembly at the bottom of the steering pedestal and not anything at the rudder end. The arrangement here is a torsion bar extending down the pedestal to an arm or quadrant to which the tie rod connects again by a rose joint.

 

[Laser310]

I just can't think of anything attached to a quadrant that I would call a baseplate - the article says the baseplate separated from the quadrant.

maybe the crew took some pictures of it

 

[Fr J Hackett]

I just can't think of anything attached to a quadrant that I would call a baseplate - the article says the baseplate separated from the quadrant...

And neither can I. I was trying to give an idea of how the rudder and steering gear was likely to be arranged. What doesn't help is the use of the word quadrant which is normal in cable linkage.
There is another complication in that it was a twin wheel arrangement ( something I have no knowledge of) and the steering / rudders would presumably be connected, maybe this bracket was part of that arrangement.

 

[rotrax]

Avalook on Google for the report on the sinking of yacht Megawatt in 2005. Smaller hanse but rudder failed. It might interest the engineer in you. Shows manufacturing drawings, photos, quality assurance certs, etc. Interesting read.

IIRC they thought a badly fitted autohelm caused the aluminium rudder stock to shear, allowing it to drop into the 'oggin. Water getting into the boat from the rudder tube was too much to handle.