AntiFreeze Conumdrum.

[oldgit]

About to refill cooling system on a Yamar 4LHASTE 240HP.
Asking for a friend

Requires about 15 Litres of "Red" diluted 50 % water 50% A/F.
Does one
Buy 10 litres of concentrate and supply own tap/distilled water
or
15 litres of already diluted A/F presumably with distilled water in the mix.

Get the distinct feeling that will be paying somebody for some very expensive H2O on the ready to use ?

 

[PaulRainbow]

I always mix my own

 

[Plum]

About to refill cooling system on a Yamar 4LHASTE 240HP.
Asking for a friend

Requires about 15 Litres of "Red" diluted 50 % water 50% A/F.
Does one
Buy 10 litres of concentrate and supply own tap/distilled water
or
15 litres of already diluted A/F presumably with distilled water in the mix.

Get the distinct feeling that will be paying somebody for some very expensive H2O on the ready to use ?

I do not know how big the risk is but I play safe by using distilled water to avoid the minerals present in tapwater. I always use the coolant specified by the engine manufacturer/mariniser to ensure of the correct corrosion inhibitor.

 

[VicS]

About to refill cooling system on a Yamar 4LHASTE 240HP.
Asking for a friend

Requires about 15 Litres of "Red" diluted 50 % water 50% A/F.
Does one
Buy 10 litres of concentrate and supply own tap/distilled water
or
15 litres of already diluted A/F presumably with distilled water in the mix.

Get the distinct feeling that will be paying somebody for some very expensive H2O on the ready to use ?

Unless your friend's tap water is very low in dissolved solids use distilled, or deionised, water for dilution or buy antifreeze already diluted.
.

 

[Boater Sam]

50% is too strong, reduces the heat carrying capacity. Use 30% AF to 70% water. In most areas distilled water would be a waste, SE England excepted of course.

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

About to refill cooling system on a Yamar 4LHASTE 240HP.
Asking for a friend

Requires about 15 Litres of "Red" diluted 50 % water 50% A/F.
Does one
Buy 10 litres of concentrate and supply own tap/distilled water
or
15 litres of already diluted A/F presumably with distilled water in the mix.

Get the distinct feeling that will be paying somebody for some very expensive H2O on the ready to use ?

Mix your own. Deionised water is cheap enough
https://groceries.asda.com/product/car-maintenance/car-plan-de-ionised-water-5-l/1000167581785

 

[Beneteau381]

50% is too strong, reduces the heat carrying capacity. Use 30% AF to 70% water. In most areas distilled water would be a waste, SE England excepted of course.

Beta recommend 50%

 

[VicS]

Mix your own. Deionised water is cheap enough
https://groceries.asda.com/product/car-maintenance/car-plan-de-ionised-water-5-l/1000167581785

and based on Halfords' prices is less expensive than buying ready mixed.

.

 

[thinwater]

Yes, distilled or DI water. Below is the spec, and you will see it very similar to the battery water spec.

Tap water is not likely to be suitable. The TDS will be too high by may times. The local water authority should post the values on-line.

As for reducing the concentration below 50%, yes, the heat transfer capacity increases slightly, but ...

• The boiling point is lowered.
• Corrosion protection is reduced.
• Cylinder liner and water pump cavitation is increased (not really a thing with flexible impeller pumps).

It's not just freeze point. In fact, it is barely freeze point at all in most applications.

 

[ChromeDome]

50% is too strong, reduces the heat carrying capacity. Use 30% AF to 70% water. In most areas distilled water would be a waste, SE England excepted of course.

Disagreed.
Read the label and dilute accordingly to meet the expected temperature . When the label states "water" I'm certain tap quality is fine.

Note that there is no recommendation for using AF undiluted!

Using undiluted antifreeze in your vehicle's cooling system is not recommended for several reasons:

1. Reduced cooling efficiency: Pure antifreeze has a lower heat capacity than a mixture of antifreeze and water. Using undiluted antifreeze can actually reduce the cooling system's ability to transfer heat away from the engine, potentially leading to overheating
   https://gmb.net/blog/5-antifreeze-facts/
2. Higher freezing point: Surprisingly, a 50/50 mixture of antifreeze and water will freeze at a lower temperature than pure antifreeze. This means using undiluted antifreeze could actually increase the risk of freezing in very cold conditions
   https://gmb.net/blog/5-antifreeze-facts/
3. Engine damage: Filling a cooling system with pure antifreeze can damage the engine. The heat-transfer capabilities are lowered by about 35% with pure antifreeze, which could cause significant damage, especially in hot weather
   https://gmb.net/blog/5-antifreeze-facts/
4. Loss of protective properties: When antifreeze is mixed with water, it helps keep performance additives (like silicates, phosphates, and nitrates) suspended in the mixture. Without water, these additives may settle at the bottom of the cooling system, reducing their effectiveness in protecting against corrosion
   https://gmb.net/blog/5-antifreeze-facts/
5. Potential for gelling: In some cases, highly concentrated antifreeze can "gel up" and turn into a jello-like substance. This can plug cooling passages and lead to severe engine problems like overheating and blown head gaskets
   https://community.cartalk.com/t/coolant-dilution/61157

 

[thinwater]

Disagreed.
Read the label and dilute accordingly to meet the expected temperature . When the label states "water" I'm certain tap quality is fine.

Note that there is no recommendation for using AF undiluted!

Did you disagree with a specific fact? The standards I quoted are ASTM, EU, and UK standard (they share a committee). I don't think there were any errors in my post. I said that excess concentration reducing heat transfer capacity. Over 50% is bad unless you are in arctic regions. In general, concentrations below 35% may not pass corrosion tests and concentrations below 40% are not recommended by equipment manufacturers. That said, some operators run water with corrosion additives (the additives ARE at full concentration), with certain equipment modifications (increased pressure). Dilutions below 50% are a compromise, they are not how the coolants are formulated to be used, and that is your decision.

(A part of my career was on engine coolant technical committees.)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211379719314950
Engine Coolant Basics

 

[Bodach na mara]

Beta recommend 50%

In the manual for my Beta 30 it says
"30 < 50%". To be clear, the sign between the figures means "less than and not equal to". That is a mathematician talking. The sign for less than or equal to is typographically awkward but I know how much people on here like splitting hairs.

 

[VicS]

In the manual for my Beta 30 it says
"30 < 50%". To be clear, the sign between the figures means "less than and not equal to". That is a mathematician talking. The sign for less than or equal to is typographically awkward but I know how much people on here like splitting hairs.

≤ is the sign for less than or equal to
≥ is the sign for greater than or equal to

 

[Bodach na mara]

≤ is the sign for less than or equal to
≥ is the sign for greater than or equal to

I always found these awkward when typing up student notes or test papers. I often resorted to putting in the underline by hand until things got easier using word processing programs.

 

[WoodyP]

I found out the hard way about not using the correct antifreeze. Corroded wet liners lead to an engine rebuild. This was on a tractor that I thought was un breakable.

 

[oldgit]

Thanks all.
An admirer of my friend has just given him 20L of undiluted Red, probably just to get rid of him.
Our local Wickes is selling distilled at £3.00 for 5 litres.
Yanmar suggest 50/50 and the website of the A/F maker states that after 70 % A/F 30% water no useful effect is achieved.
Problem solved.

 

[ChromeDome]

Did you disagree with a specific fact? The standards I quoted are ASTM, EU, and UK standard (they share a committee). I don't think there were any errors in my post. I said that excess concentration reducing heat transfer capacity. Over 50% is bad unless you are in arctic regions. In general, concentrations below 35% may not pass corrosion tests and concentrations below 40% are not recommended by equipment manufacturers. That said, some operators run water with corrosion additives (the additives ARE at full concentration), with certain equipment modifications (increased pressure). Dilutions below 50% are a compromise, they are not how the coolants are formulated to be used, and that is your decision.

(A part of my career was on engine coolant technical committees.)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211379719314950
Engine Coolant Basics

I disagreed to "50% is too strong".

Despite your knowledge, I still trust manufacturers' recommendations (on various AF's).

And I find attempts to drive owners back to manufacturers' parts-shops by branding on colours, G-numbering etc. a joke.

 

[Beneteau381]

Beta recommend 50%

My apologies General Aftercare - Beta Marine Propulsion Engines

 

[ChromeDome]

My apologies General Aftercare - Beta Marine Propulsion Engines

Most AF's protect to some -35C at 50% but you do not need to go arctic to experience even lower temps.

Italy: Busa Riviera recorded -50.6°C in 2022

 

[oldgit]

Apropos not much ...
Poster on these forums did an experiment a few years ago.
He installed two temperature sensors on a boat kept in a Thames non tidal marina then recorded the range of temperature variations on some magic box or other over the winter months.
One sensor was located in the engine bilge and the other sensor in the saloon.
It was noted that even when there was a thin layer of ice on the water in the the marina the sensor in the bilge never went below 8C.

All my boats have been moored on either drying or constantly afloat pontoon moorings in a tidal flow with a dash of brackish water.
Can only recall the river ever freezing in the early 1960s and again, not so badly, in the 1980s ?, going to assume that A/F protection down to -37C should keep me out of trouble.