RogerJolly
Active member
Says here not to use distilled water - how much credence do we give that?
Using it as an excuse just to use tap water and avoid the hassle.
Using it as an excuse just to use tap water and avoid the hassle.
AntiFreeze Conumdrum.
- Thread starter oldgit
- Start date
Bodach na mara
Well-known member
The text in the link above in post #21 sounds like a lot of bollocks to me. From what I remember of chemistry, pure water consists of water molecules and a small proportion of separated hydrogen and hydroxyl ions and nothing else. Actually what is referred to as "pure" or "distilled" water is usually "deionised" water which is water from which ions have been removed usually by passing it over an ion exchange resin. This replaces the positive ions with hydrogen ions and the negative ions with hydroxyl ions. Distillation is a comparatively slow and energy-intensive process by comparison.
In many areas filtered tap water is perfectly adequate for use in antifreeze and even the filtration may be OTT, considering the sh1te that is usually circulating in the cooling system.
In many areas filtered tap water is perfectly adequate for use in antifreeze and even the filtration may be OTT, considering the sh1te that is usually circulating in the cooling system.
PeterBoater
Active member
I use the water output from dehumidifiers on the boat and at home, as it is more or less distilled, albeit not deionized, and Comma Super Red Concentrated coolant, five-year life and meets the engine manufacturer's specification. If I don't have enough dehumidifier water, I buy deionized water from the local discount household store, price two years ago £5.97 for 15 litres.
KevinV
Well-known member
Ditto - good for windscreen washer and steam iron too
Sandy
Well-known member
Can you remind that audience where that is?
I can't find in on Google Maps and if my ancient geography is correct, that will be continental climate not a maritime one. That is until the 'Gulf Stream' stops and we have the same climate as Canada.
thinwater
Well-known member
That was written by a complete idiot. Very little of it is correct, and that by accident. This sort of thing is common on the internet.
All AF manufacturers use DI or distilled water. The additive package contains the required ions.
BTW, softened water is high in salt, which is about the worse thing you can add to engine coolant.
I don't understand why people post on topics they do not know.
thinwater
Well-known member
I'm am sorry, but this was my career, and you are incorrect. Outside of arctic regions >50% is not recommended because of reduced heat transfer capacity. Higher concentrations have greater viscosity (does not remove heat as well) and glycol has a much lower specific heat (BTU/#*F) than water. The result is that heat removal capability drops quickly above 50% and hot spots become far more likely. I've been in involved in troubleshooting problems that resulted from glycol concentrations over 50%. Some engines will tolerate it, and some will not. In general, this is a case where above 50%, more is not better and has not benefit to the engine unless the engine room temperatures are below -40F, which is pretty unlikely. If the boat were in the hard, thee might be some slushing at -50F, but no engine room is that cold when a boat is actually in the water, so it is irrelevant. Even construction equipment used in the arctic is changed out to 50/50 when it comes south.
Another, less common problem, is that additives can be come unstable and gel with temperature cycling at very high concentrations.
I suspect I know more about some of this than many of the manufacturers. This is a small sub-specialty. They know about the whole motor and consult companies like mine for coolant tech.
Yes, the parts companies work the "color" thing. There are very real differences, but color is not a true indicator of chemistry, and all of the chemistries are available aftermarket, if you know where to look. Some are closely related, some not so much. I've dyed the same formulation multiple colors for different vendors.
oldgit
Well-known member
Correction..... stuff that Wickes is selling is DI. at £3.00 per 5 litres.
Having gone to much trouble in order to have sufficient fluids on hand to fill the cooling system, only managed to pour in 5 litres of DI and 4.5 of
A/F before it over flowed.
I have no intention at all of losing any sleep what so ever over the mix ratio.
As regards hardness of my tap water when you turn the tap on lumps of chalk come out.
Having gone to much trouble in order to have sufficient fluids on hand to fill the cooling system, only managed to pour in 5 litres of DI and 4.5 of
A/F before it over flowed.
I have no intention at all of losing any sleep what so ever over the mix ratio.
As regards hardness of my tap water when you turn the tap on lumps of chalk come out.
VicS
Well-known member
It should not be .
In the softening process water passes through an ion excahnge resin in the sodium form. Calcium and magnesium ions are removed from the water and sodium ions released in their place.
When all resin bed has released all its sodium ions and is then in the calcium and magnesium forms it is regenerated with salt ( sodium chloride) solution. In the regeneration process the calcium and magnesium ions are displaced from the resin and replaced by sodium ions. All the spent regenerant goes to waste and the resin bed is rinsed before going back in to service. There is no change in the chloride content of the treated water.
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thinwater
Well-known member
True, most of the chloride does not transfer to the tap water ... but it will increase some and the tap water was typically too high start with. Softening will not reduce it, so the level will typically be about twice water it should be.
Or you can just not pay attention to the standard. We used tap water for many years; the change in standards was mostly driven by aluminum radiators and cylinder heads.
Of course, we are arguing over the cost of a gallon of distilled water from the drug store. Penny foolish. I didn't write the standards, I just posted the information, developed by the joint effort of engine coolant and engine manufacturers. Every brand you can think of participated in the process.
RogerJolly
Active member
How much to stress about calorifier?
Eg roughly what capacity does it add to the system, when you're working out volume ratios?
How best to drain it (coil) to be sure all old stuff is gone (or not to worry)?
Eg roughly what capacity does it add to the system, when you're working out volume ratios?
How best to drain it (coil) to be sure all old stuff is gone (or not to worry)?
Bodach na mara
Well-known member
At a guess the coil adds less than a litre to the volume. In making up coolant mixture I'm sure that most people don't try to make a fixed volume to just exactly fill the system. As you suggest, you don't know exactly what volume you will need.
My system needs less than 5 litres so I use 2 litres of antifreeze and 3 litres of water and add until the system will take no more. The remainder is kept aboard for topping up.
RogerJolly
Active member
Good scheme thanks. Trying not to worry about the previous ratio not being exactly right, so the coolant left in the system/calorifier skews the final mix (that would be silly).
westernman
Well-known member
Use the right anti-freeze. Japanese engines tend to require a different kind of anti-freeze with different corrosion inhibitors.
Coming up with a decent explanation as to why and what the differences between different kinds of anti-freeze are is over my pay grade.
Coming up with a decent explanation as to why and what the differences between different kinds of anti-freeze are is over my pay grade.
Momac
Well-known member
I used 50% dilution last time so on reading this thread I may well go with 40% Antifreeze to 60% water this time.
I have from a couple of years ago decided to go with more frequent than really necessary coolant changes so rightly or wrongly don't worry too much about extracting 100% of the old coolant. I doubt all of the coolant can easily be removed from the engine with the calorifier.
I have from a couple of years ago decided to go with more frequent than really necessary coolant changes so rightly or wrongly don't worry too much about extracting 100% of the old coolant. I doubt all of the coolant can easily be removed from the engine with the calorifier.
oldgit
Well-known member
Might also depend if your boat is ashore or afloat in the winter.
Long ago purchased a boat with pair of raw water cooled Mercruiser petrols.
Ashore during a hard winter, new risers required on engines before boat could be put back into service , split due to water in the risers freezing.
One engine also conked out on the way back home but thats a different story , turned out to be a duff capacitor in the distributor which only failed when engine was hot.
bluerm166
Well-known member
Rainwater ?
Momac
Well-known member
Diesels in my case and in the water this winter.
I think the discussion is about the fresh water (antifreeze/coolant) cooling system, not frost protection of the raw water system.
ghostlymoron2
Active member
I use tap water to dilute in my Audi, doesn't seem to do any harm. I've done 160k so far. I don't see why a marine engine should be any different.
Bodach na mara
Well-known member
It depends on where your tap is. By which I mean where in the country, not whether it is in the en-suite or the outside wall. At home in Renfrewshire I will happily use tap water but at my daughter's house in rural Berwickshire it has to be deionised.