Anchoring on a windlass?

[wipe_out]

The new boat has a windlass which is a first for us.. Reading the manual it says not to let the windlass take the strain when anchored.. Looking around there seem to be a number of different "hook" type things that can be used with a length of rope to take the strain off the windlass and put it onto the cleats.. So I plan of making up some form of bridle to go over the two forward cleats and then hook onto the chain..

Question is which hook should I be using? Are some better than others or are they all pretty much the same?

Thanks..

 

[julians]

The new boat has a windlass which is a first for us.. Reading the manual it says not to let the windlass take the strain when anchored.. Looking around there seem to be a number of different "hook" type things that can be used with a length of rope to take the strain off the windlass and put it onto the cleats.. So I plan of making up some form of bridle to go over the two forward cleats and then hook onto the chain..

Question is which hook should I be using? Are some better than others or are they all pretty much the same?

Thanks..

Hmmm, i always anchor on the windlass, and so does pretty much everyboat i see. Maybe if it was rough i would rig some kind of shock absorber, or maybe if i was planning on staying at anchor for several days.

Maybe we all shouldnt use the windlass?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Question is which hook should I be using? Are some better than others or are they all pretty much the same?

Here's one that works for me

http://www.osculati.com/en/cat/Scheda.aspx?id=249

combined with 2 ropes and rubber snubbers like this https://www.jimmygreen.co.uk/products/chandlery/mooring-accessories/mooring-compensators

Personally I only bother using my snubber system when anchored overnight or when anchored in windy conditions during the day. For a lunchtime stop in calm or moderate conditions, I don't bother using it and let the windlass take the strain. You can tell when your windlass is under strain because the chain will be stretched out taut in front of the boat instead of falling vertically into the sea. Of course you can always let out more chain which should take some of the strain off the windlass

 

[benjenbav]

Agree 100% with Deleted User. Many years of using the windlass for lunch stops has never impacted adversely on any I've owned. Longer term anchoring is a different matter.

 

[Tranona]

Like most things boaty people have their own pet solutions. OK to just use the windlass on calm day lunch stops, but snubber useful for overnight or lively weather. Some use just a rope attached with a rolling hitch. I use a cast hook that you can get in most chandlers on a length of nylon rope to a cleat. Rather than take it through a fairlead i put it on top of the chain over the bow roller.

 

[john_q]

We have 2 snubbers both with chain hooks on, 1 on a very short piece of rope near the windlass so we can use it when we dig the anchor in, we sometimes use this as an overnight option if things are calm and we have a longer 20 foot rope snubber which is used the rest of the time.

Interesting point to think about, our manual S/L Sea Tiger was connected to the deck by 12 mm bolts, our new Lofrens Falkon only using 10 mm bolts and this recommended for a boat up to 50 foot!!

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

We have 2 snubbers both with chain hooks on, 1 on a very short piece of rope near the windlass so we can use it when we dig the anchor in, we sometimes use this as an overnight option if things are calm and we have a longer 20 foot rope snubber which is used the rest of the time.

Interesting point to think about, our manual S/L Sea Tiger was connected to the deck by 12 mm bolts, our new Lofrens Falkon only using 10 mm bolts and this recommended for a boat up to 50 foot!!

Yes, but the other way of looking at this is that the breaking strain of your (10mm?) chain is almost certainly way lower than the shear capacity of (4no?) M10 bolts.

 

[MapisM]

Agree 100% with Deleted User.

+1, except for his last sentence.
M, why should a longer chain reduce the load on the windlass, AOTBE?
I can only think of one reason, i.e. that the more chain you let down the lighter the boat is, but that's a pretty marginal difference...

 

[Tranona]

More chain you have out, the greater the catenary so the more the boat can move before it exerts shock loads on the windlass. The idea of a strop is to relieve the windlass from shock loads.

 

[MapisM]

Yes, but the other way of looking at this is that the breaking strain of your (10mm?) chain is almost certainly way lower than the shear capacity of (4no?) M10 bolts.

Absolutely.
I've also got a Lofrans Falkon, on a rather heavy (35T) 53 footer, and I can assure john_q that it would take much more than even the breaking load of a 12mm chain, to tear apart those bolts (if properly installed of course, with a counterplate etc.).

 

[MapisM]

More chain you have out, the greater the catenary so the more the boat can move before it exerts shock loads on the windlass. The idea of a strop is to relieve the windlass from shock loads.

I'm not convinced - not in a blow, at least: the more the boat can move, the more speed she can gain during each swing, hence creating more snatch load at each end of the arc.
Indeed letting down more chain is better in such conditions, but just because the ground tackle holds better, not because the snatch load is lower.

 

[Hurricane]

Here's my three penny worth - but I'm still learning.
Been boating since I was 5 years old - always finding new things or different ways of doing the same thing.

Anyway, my experience is that the winch cannot take the load.
A couple of years ago, we stripped the gears in ours and it cost me a new gearbox.
When I contacted Lewmar, they said that this always happens.
Read the Lewmar manuals - I found one recently that says the windlass is only designed for recovering the chain - not for taking the load under anchor.
Since stripping the gears, we have been using a bridle and we will continue to do so.
Maybe other boats are fitted with chain stoppers - ours isn't - so if we hadn't used the bridle over the last couple of years, I'm sure we would have gone through another gearbox.
Whilst out here in Italy, we have increased the size of our chain to 12mm and the anchor now sets much better than with the old 10mm chain.
This now puts our windlass under a much greater strain so we will be fitting a chain stopper at the end of the season.

My experience is DON'T LEAVE THE BOAT ON THE WINDLASS ALONE.

I'll try and find the Lewmar notes that say so and post a link.
I'll also see if I can find a pic of our bridle.

@Deleted User
Our old chain hook that was on our bridle doesn't fit the new chain so we have bough one of the chain Osculati hooks like yours.
It only arrived yesterday so we haven't tried it out properly yet - seems though that it might work better - maybe with a boat hook.
Our problem with chain hooks is that we cant easily reach past the bow roller - I used to be able to lift the old 10mm chain and attach the hook - no way I can do this with 12mm chain.

 

[Mike k]

I use a Y bridle - soft eyes for cleats and a captive bolt shackle through the thimble on to the chain. I did buy the osculati but found that it was fractionally too wide to go through my bow roller assembly- so check that out - the osculati measures 68mm at the widest point.

 

[MapisM]

Just for the records, one of the reasons why I agreed that it's ok to anchor on the windlass alone in calm/moderate conditions is that my windlass has an integrated brake, so the load is not actually taken by the gear - being in this respect equivalent to the chain stopper that Hurric mentioned.
If I would have a vertical winch with neither brake not chain stopper, I would definitely use my bridle much more often.
Otoh, with my setup, the main reason why I use it (when overnighting) is that in the bow cabin the chain noise can be a bit annoying...

 

[Hurricane]

Just for the records, one of the reasons why I agreed that it's ok to anchor on the windlass alone in calm/moderate conditions is that my windlass has an integrated brake, so the load is not actually taken by the gear - being in this respect equivalent to the chain stopper that Hurric mentioned.
If I would have a vertical winch with neither brake not chain stopper, I would definitely use my bridle much more often.
Otoh, with my setup, the main reason why I use it (when overnighting) is that in the bow cabin the chain noise can be a bit annoying...

You showed me your windlass and it is a really substantial installation.
I fear that most boats (including ours) don't have such a strong windlass fitted as standard.

 

[Hurricane]

Following my post above - here is a link to the Lewmar manual
http://www.lewmar.com/\assets\img\dataset\Manual_V1-6_65001201 issue4a-english.pdf

Several places to look but I suggest that the whole document is read.

Page 3 section 2.1
A windlass should never be used as a mooring bollard, the anchor rode MUST be secured to a mooring cleat,
chain stopper or other designated strong point. Using the windlass to secure the rode will damage the
windlass.
Do not use windlass for ANY purpose other than deployment and recovery of anchor.


And Page 21 section 7.5
Vessels at anchor will snub on the rode and this can cause slippage or apply excessive loads to the windlass.

And here's a pic of our bridle.
Mostly, we drop more chain after attaching the bridle.
This adds more weight thus lowering the pulling point of the rode so instead of the rode starting on the bow roller, it starts on the chain hook somewhat lower.
Acts a bit like a chum.

 

[petem]

I wouldn't have it submerged like that. Very poor seamanship .

 

[Hurricane]

I wouldn't have it submerged like that. Very poor seamanship .

You should have seen my anchoring in Caletta the other day - absolute rubbish!!
We finally got the anchor down and ended up too close to MapisM.
Rather that go through the whole thing again, MapisM moved - on his own no help from his SWMBO.
Six of us on board JW - he really put us to shame.
Maybe this new chain will make the difference - it has been much easier so far.

 

[petem]

Mike, your pic does illustrate how impossible it would be to lean over the bow roller and attach the shackle to the chain. On Deleted User's boat it was possible but uncomfortable.

Is there perhaps a solution there waiting to be invented?

 

[Prhperio]

I wouldn't have it submerged like that. Very poor seamanship .

Well, that answers my question as to whether there is a recommended length for the bridle. I guess one just measures how far from just above the water through the fairlead to the cleat and that's the length (plus a bit for the snubber) for each arm...