Anchor Bracket.

[Neeves]

The pictures are dated June 2015, so the water would not be that cold, the chart is way north in Scotland.

 

[NormanS]

Presumably the shackle pictured was joining an anchor to the chain. If and when it broke, it's quite "surprising" that the broken part was retrieved. One can only assume that the breaking load was somehow applied on deck. It would be interesting to know more details.
Edit: partly explained above.

 

[vyv_cox]

The pictures are dated June 2015, so the water would not be that cold, the chart is way north in Scotland.

So 5C not unreasonable then!

 

[NormanS]

So 5C not unreasonable then!

Lochinver basking in the Gulf Stream.

 

[Bouba]

I am serious about the use of rated shackles

This image was supplied by a member here. Not a rated shackle, failed on retrieval of a Rocna anchor. Apart from not being rated its the wrong shackle anyway. Use a bow (sometimes called an anchor) shackle
View attachment 170709

I have tested to destruction using NATA approved test facilities many 10s of rated 3/8th" shackles either G60 or G80. Some did not meet the suppliers specification - until I tested (and then they changed the specification to meet my results). Without exception all the shackles failed with the shackle pin shearing at the pin. Crosby, Yoke, Peerless and Campbell all met the manufacturers specification. I have not tested Van Beest shackles, difficult to source in Australia. I have tested other shackles - but if you want a degree of certainty choose from my list - some are easy enough to source in the UK, including Crosby and Yoke. I have bought Crosby shackles fromTecni, I think based in Bristol.

I think you will find a number of people recommend the use of rated shackles from reputable manufacturers. Wiring a shackle bought from a hardware store will not, ever, make it stronger. I have never heard of anyone actually breaking a shackle by twisting, by hand or even helped by shifter. A rated G80 3/8th shackle takes 10t to break it - yet you did it easily.

You cannot be serious.

By all means mouse a shackle pin, its an excellent idea - but for anchors mouse only reputable shackles - not ones you can break by hand, or using hand tools.

If you know of a source of reputable shackles subject to independent testing please post so that the members can enjoy the information.

Jonathan

I don't have the pieces - only the picture and the sorry tale of the lost Rocna anchor.

Never guess but the I might assume a G30 chain. The shackle is unrated, no Grade - just one of those shackles, maybe, you can buy in your local hardware store (to secure your dog)

The owner said the shackle failed when it hit the bow roller - so I assume (again never guess) that the actual failure occurred prior and the hitting of the bow roller was the final straw that broke the .....Interestingly the shackle shows little distortion.


I was interested that the owner lost his anchor but saved the pieces. I don't question the veracity of members willing to send me pictures - I think them both honest and generous and I am grateful.

I don’t understand…they lost the anchor…but retrieved the tiny bits of the broken shackle off the sea floor ?

 

[Neeves]

The shackles are the cheapest part of the rode. The chain and anchor cost stg100s each. The best shackle you can buy, one of the best, Crosby, see above - cost stg15 and this 3/8 shackle will fit 8mm chain (clevis pin through the chain, bow through most 15/20kg 'modern' anchors (I've not tried an Epsilon). The shackle has a WLL or 2,000kg at a 5:1 safety factor (so 10t UTS) a G30 x 8mm chain has a 3t UTS and G40 4t UTS. Your yacht costs 10s of thousands - or much much more.

If you ask the chandler probably has (should have) a test certificate for the chain you intend to buy

Why would you save money and buy a shackle, say costing stg10, maybe less (much less?), with no manufacturers name, no reputation and no WLL - its only similarity to a Crosby, Yoke,..... shackle is that the cheap shackle is nominally 3/8th and they look the same (except the cheap shackle is devoid of markings).


I see unrated shackles in every marina on some gorgeous yachts. I see shackles attached to shackles, galvanised alloy mixed with undersized stainless (to match for size, chain with anchor). Incorrectly attached swivels - and despair. Accidents waiting to happen - fortunately some or most people are lucky - except the 2 people whose shackles I feature in my 2 sets of pictures.

If your shackles are unrated - go and spend stg15 + postage.

and/or

Go and tell your wife that you have over stg1,000 of ground tackle and you saved stg5 by buying a cheap, unbranded shackle with no specification and you know 3 similar shackles failed, the 2 I quote and the one of Refueler (who bent the shackle pin)

Use mousing wire and Loctite - I'm all for belt and braces, wire does fail.

Luck is ephemeral.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

I don’t understand…they lost the anchor…but retrieved the tiny bits of the broken shackle off the sea floor ?

No - on the stainless part of the bow roller assembly.

I can see no benefit is any one going to the trouble of sending me pictures and fabricating the story. Its a yacht strange things happen.


Another member told me his chain failed at anchor. He caught his drifting yacht. Re-anchored, found the broken link, sent the link to the chain maker who accepted it was a poor weld and he received a new chain - you don't make these things up.

Jonathan

 

[Refueler]

I am serious about the use of rated shackles

This image was supplied by a member here. Not a rated shackle, failed on retrieval of a Rocna anchor. Apart from not being rated its the wrong shackle anyway. Use a bow (sometimes called an anchor) shackle
View attachment 170709

I have tested to destruction using NATA approved test facilities many 10s of rated 3/8th" shackles either G60 or G80. Some did not meet the suppliers specification - until I tested (and then they changed the specification to meet my results). Without exception all the shackles failed with the shackle pin shearing at the pin. Crosby, Yoke, Peerless and Campbell all met the manufacturers specification. I have not tested Van Beest shackles, difficult to source in Australia. I have tested other shackles - but if you want a degree of certainty choose from my list - some are easy enough to source in the UK, including Crosby and Yoke. I have bought Crosby shackles fromTecni, I think based in Bristol.

I think you will find a number of people recommend the use of rated shackles from reputable manufacturers. Wiring a shackle bought from a hardware store will not, ever, make it stronger. I have never heard of anyone actually breaking a shackle by twisting, by hand or even helped by shifter. A rated G80 3/8th shackle takes 10t to break it - yet you did it easily.

You cannot be serious.

By all means mouse a shackle pin, its an excellent idea - but for anchors mouse only reputable shackles - not ones you can break by hand, or using hand tools.

If you know of a source of reputable shackles subject to independent testing please post so that the members can enjoy the information.

Jonathan

Neeves - you really like to push the 'envelope' ....

Nowhere have I said to use local store shackles .... nowhere have I said anything to even hint at not using a reputable shackle.

I really give up with some people - you really telling me you have never seen the eye of a pin get twisted or broken .. EVERY shackle - even your recc'd will corrode / seize / weaken ...

I have had shackles part ... its surprising what stress can be imparted on them ... many years ago - I used to carry a large Bow shackle in back of my Land Rover to show people why NOT to use an oversized bow shackle to attach ground chain to a sinker ... which still today many people advise and use !! My boat in storm conditions (depth at HW was about 13ft ... boat was hitting the bottom ... in Langstone Harbour (Havant end) .... finally the bow shackle I had used sheared and the bow actually opened out .... boat ended up luckily in the marshes instead of smashed on the concrete wall.
The lesson was proper size and 'gate' to do the job ..

I really do not need a lecture from you ... having been a Senior Deck Office servicing / using derricks ... cranes and many other lifting / securing items .. not just yottie bits.
Ever opened up a 5ton Kenter Shackle ??? I have ... you probably have never even seen one !!

 

[Refueler]

I think @Neeves was making the point that people are buying shackles to fit the chain that clearly aren't suitable. Possibly cheap and not graded.

Accepted and never argued with ...

 

[Neeves]

I don’t understand…they lost the anchor…but retrieved the tiny bits of the broken shackle off the sea floor ?

If you check the pictures the 3 pieces of the shackle were attached to the chain. I don't know but if the shackle eventually failed when the fluke rammed the bow roller then the loose part of the shackle would be sitting 'in' 'on' the bow roller - as the unsecured Rocna waved goodbye as it returned to the sea.

Not impossible.

As an owner - if this happened you would be so surprised you would simply have insufficient time to catch the disappearing anchor.

And as all the pieces were photographed this must be near enough what happened.

Jonathan

 

[Bouba]

If you check the pictures the 3 pieces of the shackle were attached to the chain. I don't know but if the shackle eventually failed when the fluke rammed the bow roller then the loose part of the shackle would be sitting 'in' 'on' the bow roller - as the unsecured Rocna waved goodbye as it returned to the sea.

Not impossible.

As an owner - if this happened you would be so surprised you would simply have insufficient time to catch the disappearing anchor.

And as all the pieces were photographed this must be near enough what happened.

Jonathan

What did they ram ?

 

[Bouba]

It’s quite possible that the breaking shackle and the loss of an anchor saved the boat from structural damage if the force wasn’t absorbed by the shackle

 

[Neeves]

What did they ram ?

I have been guilty

If you allow the windlass to power retrieve as the anchor comes over the bow roller the fluke rams the bow roller. If the failure of the shackle had occurred over time the final ramming of the fluke onto the bow roller may have been that straw - that caused the final and catastrophic failure.

As we use lightweight anchors our practice developed that we would stop retrieval before the anchor reached the bow roller and complete retrieval by hand - its kinder to the windlass. I would manoeuvre our cat following Josephine's instruction so as to keep the rode straight on the bow roller. Josephine would stop retrievals when the anchor was just clearing the water. We would swap roles, she would take us out of the anchorage I would complete retreival. I would pull the anchor up by hand and secure the anchor on the bow roller. The chain would be loose - not tension on the windlass. Securement was a simple strop of dyneema, pulled hard (by hand) against the bow roller and secured with a chain hook/grab. its easy for us, our anchors wished 8kg. More difficult if you have steel and anchors and oversized them.

It’s quite possible that the breaking shackle and the loss of an anchor saved the boat from structural damage if the force wasn’t absorbed by the shackle

Its nice to think that the loss of the anchor has a positive.

I think this is correct - retrieval cannot break a good shackle. I think the shackle had already 'failed' and if it had not broken as described might have been used again - and failed losing the yacht. How many of us retreive a shackle, in any situation, and look over it carefully - every time - for damage (hidden cracks).

A good Grade 80 3/8th shackle will have been Proof Tested. To pass proof testing, I speak from memory which maybe jaded, the shackle is tested to 2 times WLL, so for a 3/8th shackle to 4t. The Proof Test is simple - the shackle must have resisted distortion such that the pin can be retrieved by hand. The suggestion you can bend a Graded shackle by hand or even using hand tools is simply not possible, all talk and no trousers. .

I confess I have faith in Graded shackles, having tested so many, and I only retire them when they start to corrode and become unsightly. This usually happens after 3 -4 years and the first few links of the chain also corrode. I simply chop off 4 links and the shackle and bin them all. We carried only 3/8th" Grade 80 shackles and had spares. Like Vyv we used red Loctite to secure, wire is dangerous to the hands. If Volvo supply a blue Loctite to secure parts of their props - red Loctite is good enough for us, and proven so.

I'm not sure why the first few links of a chain corrode preferentially - but it happens - and its easy to solve.

Jonathan

 

[vyv_cox]

I see no evidence of a progressive fracture or bright final fracture. Not knowing when the rusting took place does not help of course but we do know that the shackle held the boat at anchor prior to its demise on recovery.

There is no doubt that some of the anchoring kit sold in chandleries is very dodgy. One of the C-links I tested was very poor indeed, the fracture face looked nothing like steel.

 

[Refueler]

I see no evidence of a progressive fracture or bright final fracture. Not knowing when the rusting took place does not help of course but we do know that the shackle held the boat at anchor prior to its demise on recovery.

There is no doubt that some of the anchoring kit sold in chandleries is very dodgy. One of the C-links I tested was very poor indeed, the fracture face looked nothing like steel.

I know its a different item ... but your comment about fractures reminds me.

I had a Capri 2.8i Special .... and was driving from Portsmouth to Brighton. On the the old Shoreham road just past airport - was a roundabout ... I'd been happily bowling along the road .. slowed to the roundabout started to go round it ... all hell broke loose ... car span - hit the kerb and slid luckily not hitting anything else.

Car behind stopped to see if I was OK ....

I got out of car and rear wheel offside wheel was folded under the car holding it up. Car had basically slid on it. Front suspension strut pushed back of course.

RAC called ... recovery vehicle arrived ... guy took one look and said :

Another one ! the Granada 2.8 with same - seen that do it as well ...

Car was hoisted up and trucked back to dealer .. it was 2 days short of the first year on warranty ... RAC guy and I agreed that we needed to make sure Ford dealer didn't pull a fast one .. so we put the car across their workshop doors. I made night watchman make entry in his log car had been delivered at xx:xx time etc.

The Dealer accepted fault and gave us the reason 'unofficially' ... Sales Manager was a friend ...

Ford had a batch of drive shafts fail .. and mine when investigated was in that batch. Basically the ahsft had sheered right at the joint to brake back plate ... wheel folded under. He admitted to me that you could see the fault in the shaft ends.
They commenced repairs under warranty ... but halfway through the Regional Ford Rep got involved and stopped all work - denying all responsibility.
I called in independent Assessor who wrote what he was told ! I know for a fact because I was told again by my guy .. that Assessor basically looked at the car in pieces .. spoke to Ford Rep and mechanic ... wrote report.
I had already informed Insurance ... who quite rightly said its a Ford Warranty issue.

Ford - when I argued - stated they wanted to take the car away and conduct tests on it at Thornton Centre ... time frame likely 3 months.

I wrote recorded signed for delivery letter to Ford Boss ...

Outcome ? Big Brother. Insurance company repaired it in the end ... I sold it and bought the better performing earlier non LSD version .......

The story is to illustrate that there is no g'tee even with brand name.

A school pal of mine owns a company XXXXX Screws Ltd in UK (name withheld) ... they deal in all sorts of metal fastenings etc. They have clients that require a Certificate of Test before items can be used in sensitive work - such as aero / space etc. Steve has told me that 99.9% of the time all is good .. but there have been failures of one or two despite the batch testing of shipment.

 

[Bouba]

I was driving my old Cortina down the M2 at two in the morning…when the rear half shaft snapped and the wheel folded in…didn’t know what to do…sixty miles from home…so after inspecting it, I got back in and continued driving…at first it was very slow and wobbly but gradually I went faster and faster and the wheel got straighter until it welded itself back on. I parked it outside a local garage and walked home…and got up early so the mechanic wouldn’t wonder who’s car was parked in his drive…he was very helpful, he had another Cortina in the back, he took the half shaft off it, replaced mine…finished that morning, twenty quid

 

[vyv_cox]

I know its a different item ... but your comment about fractures reminds me.

I had a Capri 2.8i Special .... and was driving from Portsmouth to Brighton. On the the old Shoreham road just past airport - was a roundabout ... I'd been happily bowling along the road .. slowed to the roundabout started to go round it ... all hell broke loose ... car span - hit the kerb and slid luckily not hitting anything else.

Car behind stopped to see if I was OK ....

I got out of car and rear wheel offside wheel was folded under the car holding it up. Car had basically slid on it. Front suspension strut pushed back of course.

RAC called ... recovery vehicle arrived ... guy took one look and said :

Another one ! the Granada 2.8 with same - seen that do it as well ...

Car was hoisted up and trucked back to dealer .. it was 2 days short of the first year on warranty ... RAC guy and I agreed that we needed to make sure Ford dealer didn't pull a fast one .. so we put the car across their workshop doors. I made night watchman make entry in his log car had been delivered at xx:xx time etc.

The Dealer accepted fault and gave us the reason 'unofficially' ... Sales Manager was a friend ...

Ford had a batch of drive shafts fail .. and mine when investigated was in that batch. Basically the ahsft had sheered right at the joint to brake back plate ... wheel folded under. He admitted to me that you could see the fault in the shaft ends.
They commenced repairs under warranty ... but halfway through the Regional Ford Rep got involved and stopped all work - denying all responsibility.
I called in independent Assessor who wrote what he was told ! I know for a fact because I was told again by my guy .. that Assessor basically looked at the car in pieces .. spoke to Ford Rep and mechanic ... wrote report.
I had already informed Insurance ... who quite rightly said its a Ford Warranty issue.

Ford - when I argued - stated they wanted to take the car away and conduct tests on it at Thornton Centre ... time frame likely 3 months.

I wrote recorded signed for delivery letter to Ford Boss ...

Outcome ? Big Brother. Insurance company repaired it in the end ... I sold it and bought the better performing earlier non LSD version .......

The story is to illustrate that there is no g'tee even with brand name.

A school pal of mine owns a company XXXXX Screws Ltd in UK (name withheld) ... they deal in all sorts of metal fastenings etc. They have clients that require a Certificate of Test before items can be used in sensitive work - such as aero / space etc. Steve has told me that 99.9% of the time all is good .. but there have been failures of one or two despite the batch testing of shipment.

When I worked at Thornton there was a week when I had five Stanlow pump shafts on my desk. Every one had failed as you describe, due to non-existent radius between shaft and flange.

 

[rogerthebodger]

When I worked at Thornton there was a week when I had five Stanlow pump shafts on my desk. Every one had failed as you describe, due to non-existent radius between shaft and flange.

Yes I have seen that mainly due to the machinist not reading my drawing correctly

Did you find the reason for the non-existent radius bad design or manufacturer

 

[snowbird30ds]

Not being arsed to read through all this which bit was it you needed? swivel or chain plate?
I have this if you want it, just needs a side plate straightening.

 

[Refueler]

When I worked at Thornton there was a week when I had five Stanlow pump shafts on my desk. Every one had failed as you describe, due to non-existent radius between shaft and flange.

Stanlow ??

I used to go up MSC on the 20,000 tonners to load at Stanlow Refinery / Terminal .... that was when it was Shell.