Am I foolhardy?

[Guest]

I am 26 and have been living and working in London (Chartered Accountant) for the last four years. The huge rise in property prices has left with about £150k of equity in my house. I hate the london life and have decided to 'Sell up and Sail'.

My sailing experience consists of English Channel sailing on my fathers Sigma 362 and about 10 weeks of Med/Carib charter as Skipper.

I intend to circumnavigate the trade wind route (westabout) via cape horn leaving it to starboard (obviously). I expect to spend two years sailing with one year spent in Australia working. My crew will consist of a good friend (with similar experience)and various others joining us for different legs.

I am doing a huge amount of reading on all aspects of sailing, navigation, boat maintenance etc. I intend to do my yachtmaster in the summer.

Decisions on type of boat are incedibly difficult. I would like enough cabins for Ad Hoc chartering to friends and friends of friends to supplement income which means BENJANBAV or a very large (60ft) old long keel boat, possibly steel. The alternative is to buy a 45ft 2-3 cabin Bruce Roberts or similar. I hope to be able to buy a boat and depart within six months.

What are peoples opions on boat choice and my ability to buy and equip a suitable boat for £80k. Do I have the experience? Any opions/advice on any of the subject matter are greatly apreciated.

Will

 

[Guest]

No you\'re not

If you've got the time, the money and your family ties allow you to go, then do it.

£80K is a lot of money - I'd have thought plenty.

Sounds to me like you've got the right idea.

The very best of luck.

Geof

 

[LadyInBed]

No, go for it. I would have thought that the 80k will be more like 100K by the time you have the boat fitted out for the trip. You might find something you like that has done the trip, and is fitted out, but I think that would be luck.

 

[ianwright]

Not to be picky but the "trade wind route",or at least the route using the prevailing winds is east about, Cape Horn to port after calling at Austrailia.
Not to worry, plenty of people have set out on a circumnavigation with less sea time than you, and most of them made it.

IanW

Vertue 203, Patience<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by ianwright on 03/12/2002 23:27 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Guest]

Will,

Most of us are three parts iced over in the age stakes and are weekend sailors, so I don't know how much good we can be.

Do you really love boats and the sea or just fed up with London ? I think that many would say that it is the mental side of things rather than the gear that you have to get right first.

It's good that you are doing plenty of reading though. Remember that more pack it in than carry on.

Trying not to be negative.

Best of Luck.

 

[david_e]

Sounds like you are preparing well for it, so go for it. My only thoughts are to think safety. Heard a story last week about someone sailing in the far east calling up Falmouth coastguard on their sat phone when they were sinking having hit something (a container?).

You can always go back to your accounting at a later date.

 

[Guest]

Go for it. Buy a good, heavy sea boat not a cheap skimming dish. I would not bother with the Yacht Crasher course either. Just get the right boat and go. Good luck.

 

[rhinorhino]

Go for it!
The only bit that I would comment on is "a bit of ad hoc chartering". If you charter (even to friends)and money changes hands the boat must be coded to MCA standard (if British registered), you must hold a YM (endorsed) and may have to comply with local regulations as well. In addittion you will need to insure yourself for charter.
Failure to do this would leave you uninsured and in some jurisdictions facing serious prison time if anything (God forbid) went wrong.

 

[tcm]

Re: Don\'t sell the flat if poss...

No, not foolhardy. I have referred people to <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.shantooti.co.uk>http://www.shantooti.co.uk</A> a fully loaded steel boat with genny etc for around 80k, the boat may not be still for sale but gives a good idea of what is available.

Cape horn etc sounds hard work and blimin cold. Whats wrong with those nice canals? trade winds waft you west from canaries at equator to panama, but eastabout under the Horn.

You accounting qualification will be a whole heap more use to earn money during your wanderings imho. Trying to earn money from the boat may turn it into a drag.

Here's an idea: up the mortgage to buy the boat, then rent the flat out which gives you an income. Although this releases less loot initially, that fact that you aren't earning any money during a trip tends towards a caluclation that determines the day on which you will have no money "at this rate". This way hooks you into the london property market, which may have disappeared thru the roof in3 or so years time and you wouldn't be able to go again. A friend downshifted for three years, then had to move bak to london and couldn't afford the house he's bought ten years earlier. Christ, I sound old, and i'm only 42...

 

[extravert]

This is something I have as a plan but not yet done. My three ambitions dreamed up in my teens were to climb an unclimbed mountain in the 20's, sail round the world in my 30's, and learn to fly in my 40's. Unfortunately, instead of saving single mindedly for part 2, I keep spending saved money on boats, which doesn't help at all. If only I had a less expensive pastime...

Anyway, what I was going to add. This is not in the light of world circumnavigating experience, so shoot it down or ignore if you like.

My idea of a boat, based on someone I knew from Maryport who set off some years ago, was a 40 foot steel boat. The reasons for this were...

1) They are less desirable than most, you get more for your money
2) They can be repaired anywhere in the world
3) They are more likely to survive if you hit anything
4) Anyone who hits you will come off worse, good deterrent
5) They are often used for this kind of trip, so many are already suitably equipped

The downsides would be

1) They are heavy and go slowly, but who's in a hurry on a trip like this
2) Generally they have a poor GZ curve and AVS, which would be a concern

Something else which I have found from talking to circumnavigators is the cost of charts and pilots. (A full UK coast set I bought last summer was the best part of £2000, ouch!). I have heard that it is the biggest cost after the boat for a circumnavigation. Anyone have an idea what this would cost?

 

[Spacewaist]

IMHO......

You can spend more than the cost of the boat if you buy new charts and pilots for the whole world.

Secondhand charts from someone who's been there done that can be a steal. Advertise on sites like this one or "Real" cruisers beg borrow or steel charts or photo copies of charts on the way round. In fact a few years ago, I did the maiden voyage in my brand new HR using a photocopy to get across from Sweden to and through the Lymfjord - perfectly OK.

Since I am here and IMHO:

Cape Horn to Starboard - in a JenBenBav? Are you serious!! Have a look at the Pardey's (?) article in the Nov or Dec YM.

Personally, the only reason to "do" Cape Horn is to visit the Falklands and then Easter Island - a very long slog after working the boat up the Chilean Coast. A better sail is the classic route (as someone else has said) through Panama Canal in Late April May. From there its about three weeks to the Marquesas Islands (or close to that from the Galapagos Is. if no-one has parked another oil tanker on them by then); there after its a series of 2-4 day hops through the Pacific - some of the most gorgeous Sailing in the world - down to Fiji by late October (hurricane season) and then about a week from there to NZ.

Quite what you do from Australia - the Red Sea and Suez (Ethiopia, The Sudan Eritrea and Egypt to Port - Yemen and Saudi to Starboard) - or South Africa to Starboard (with Madagascar then the West African Coastline within 4-500 miles of the Rhum line for most of the way up) could be the subject of a very long thread itself and depends upon your appetite to interact with - and deal with - pirates.

Finally, the boat sd be big, heavy displacement and IMHO not fin keeled. For production boats nothing less than a Malo/Najad/HR or pursue your idea of a Bruce Roberts steel boat for security - as someone has said - you are not in a rush are you??

LOOK OUT!!! Behind y.......! Five more hoots and you're history!

 

[extravert]

Although this book was published a long time ago, there are some great stories and plenty of inspiration. The whole book seems to be reproduced on this site...

The Circumnavigators at

http://www.mcallen.lib.tx.us/books/circumna/ci_table.htm

 

[jonjo]

Before making detailed plans you need to establish what your budget is, so get a realistic valuation of your property in the current London market. Then:

Plan A: Rent out the house and go nautical hitch hiking for 6 months to see if you really like the life style. The "another shitty day in paradise” syndrome might strike after 6 months.

Plan B: Buy an unobtrusive 2 person yacht for under 30K e.g. Vancouver, Twister or Rival 32 for an extended 1 year trial.

If plans A or B go well you can then progress to buying the big round the world yacht with far more knowledge.

In all cases go somewhere different, e.g. when the ARC flock departs for the Caribbean turn south and head off for French Africa, then arrive in Brazil for the carnival season, how about Argentina after that?

The problem is if you follow the sell-up books you could drift around the world with an Anglo-Saxon sub culture and the experience will pass in a budweiser induced alcoholic haze.

 

[tcm]

Re: budweiser induced haze

the condition sounds appealling in midweek prechristmas grey London!

I agree, not to sell the flat.

Not sure i agree to buy tentative sub-forty footer because that in itself might be unrepresentatively uncomfortable?

 

[Spacewaist]

\"another shitty day in paradise

A good point.

After three months in the Carribean, a sharp frost, a log fire and a warm crumpet is a very attractive prospect! (..err a crumpet dribbling with butter that is - actually no, ......!)

Pontifications of the Panjandrum of orotund bloviation AD2002

 

[Jacket]

I like plan B, but possibly with a slight change. Why not by a 32ish footer, and sail it on a transatlantic to the caribean? If you decide you don't like the life, you can sell the boat, or sail it back to the UK.

If you do like the life, you can exchange the boat for something bigger out there- there's a lot up for sail, reasonably cheap and well equiped, that have been abandoned by people who decided that they weren't cut out for the lifestyle.

Alternatively, and this is my suggestion, keep the small boat for the rest of the trip. Sure, it may not be quite as comfortable, but its easier and cheaper to run and look after, and more importantly its small enough to get just about anywhere. Some of the best places to visit are the small fishing harbours in the more remote places. While you can easily squeeze into these places in a 32 footer, you wouldn't have a chance in a 50 footer.

As for the lack of space, I live on a 24 footer each summer, and once you get adjusted, its more than big enough.

 

[pugwash]

Don\'t be sorry...

Grab a chance and never be sorry for a might have been. That's what Arthur Ransome recommended and the Hiscocks (who circumnavigated several times and wrote books about it) had these words carved into the main beam of their sloop Wanderer III. The only real security you need is to want to do something badly enough.

 

[AlanPound]

Re: Am I foolhardy - probably barking

IMHO
There is much written advice on the subject... which you will probably want to ignore (I know I did, and wish I hadn't).

Don't get carried away by the size of boat, even if you can afford it. If there is only one (or two) of you, get the smallest/simplest boat that will carry the amount of water you will need for your longest passage (plus 50%). Smaller boats seem to have more seaworthy interiors anyway (saloon couches are the most comfortable berths in bad weather) - in warm climates just live in the cockpit. Complexity will steal your time. Forget water-maker - think rainwater. Be realistic about guest cabin space - if you have too much of it people might outstay their welcome... (and most of the time it will be dead space anyway). Chartering is probably unrealistic unless you make it a *business* (but then you will be a slave to it). Get a windvane (or get a boat with one already fitted). Overall, pay as little as you can - make sure the boat is seaworthy, keep it simple, there is a lot to be said for older heavier boats in difficult weather. Retain as much of your cash as you can, and GO SAILING. Head for warmer climes - just go south - take the rest as it comes. Buy only those charts you need immediately - just get going...
Best of luck (and if you get that far, you will already be one of the fortunate few...).

As I say ... IMHO

 

[Chris_Robb]

Any one working as a chartered accountant needs to get a life! (I'm one so I can say it! )

This is what I have always wanted to do, You only have one life, so take the opportunuity as it comes. - London will probably be in a bad way (financial Services) for the next 2 years, so by the time you get back, things may be picking up again, and you won't have lost out.

TCM pointed out the possible problem of being left behind in the housing market, and whilst things in the next 2 years should be quiet - who knows what could happen. If we have deflation - cash is best!

Other option is to join another boat - rent your house out and keep an income, and be cash flow positive for the first time in your life! There should be loads of other people looking for crew out there, It just depends whether you want to be the skipper and have the worries or be the crew and let someone else have the worries.

 

[Bergman]

Foolhardy?

Yes of course, but why not.

For God's sake go do it. If you don't you'll regret it for rest of your life.

I won't give opinion about choice of boat, everyone else will and all advice will be different.

Keeping London property is no doubt sound financial advice (just the stuff for an accountant), but if you do it will always be an anchor.

Go now and send next E-Mail from Windies.