Am I insured or not?

Bouba said:
Look I know how you feel….I’ve often got in disputes…and in a fit of righteous indignation I have come here to vent….only for the entire forum to take the other guy’s side. Par for the course
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OK I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not trying to stir it. I do however find it strange you've interpreted my position as righteous indignation or venting. I believe the position I've taken is correct and I'll have to deal with it as it develops. Would it help me if the entire forum agreed with me? No. What would I do? Tell the insurers they have to do what I want, because all the other old codgers on YBW say I'm right. I'm sure they'd be impressed. When I started the thread I was convinced I'm in the right, and I'm still of that opinion. However, as I get down to the wire on this, it's also useful to know others are of a different opinion.
 
If you do nothing other than sit tight you will only find out if you’re right if - heaven forbid - you have to make a claim following an incident after the current policy expires.

If those circumstances arise, you may find that the insurer declines to pay and you are left with the choice of legal action against the insurer or legal action against the broker. Either of which you might win or lose after spending a tiresome amount of time and money in court and with lawyers.

As I said before, faced with the prospect of wasting a couple of years of time that I could have spent doing something that’s more fun I think I’d just sort out an alternative policy this week, get a refund and be done with it.

Apart from anything else you always have a duty to mitigate. So, being told before the policy comes into force that this particular underwriter can’t issue it and sticking at, “I’ve already got the piece of paper that says different” might be problematic.
 
benjenbav said:
If you do nothing other than sit tight you will only find out if you’re right if - heaven forbid - you have to make a claim following an incident after the current policy expires.

If those circumstances arise, you may find that the insurer declines to pay and you are left with the choice of legal action against the insurer or legal action against the broker. Either of which you might win or lose after spending a tiresome amount of time and money in court and with lawyers.

As I said before, faced with the prospect of wasting a couple of years of time that I could have spent doing something that’s more fun I think I’d just sort out an alternative policy this week, get a refund and be done with it.

Apart from anything else you always have a duty to mitigate. So, being told before the policy comes into force that this particular underwriter can’t issue it and sticking at, “I’ve already got the piece of paper that says different” might be problematic.
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Irish Rover said:
........ enough to enable them to legally walk away from our contract?
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I think you are quite correct that you have insurance cover and the insurer should honour this. But they don't need to offer renewal next year .
It's not good for their business to do other than honour the contract. However the underwriters may not be happy.

An insurer can terminate/void cover and cancel a policy and return the premium but there has to be a good reason to do this like the non disclosure of a material fact which can lead to the policy being cancelled as if it never existed. The circumstances here do not appear to include non disclosure or any other good reason but a genuine mistake has been made. And not your mistake.

If the mistake had not been made what would have been the outcome? Probably a different policy with a different company would have been offered . I think this is a solution which may be offered to you.But you can, if you wish, stick with your position and complain to the ombudsman.
 
Momac said:
I think you are quite correct that you have insurance cover and the insurer should honour this. But they don't need to offer renewal next year .
It's not good for their business to do other than honour the contract. However the underwriters may not be happy.

An insurer can terminate/void cover and cancel a policy and return the premium but there has to be a good reason to do this like the non disclosure of a material fact which can lead to the policy being cancelled as if it never existed. The circumstances here do not appear to include non disclosure or any other good reason but a genuine mistake has been made. And not your mistake.

If the mistake had not been made what would have been the outcome? Probably a different policy with a different company would have been offered . I think this is a solution which may be offered to you.But you can, if you wish, stick with your position and complain to the ombudsman.
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Thanks. I'm glad someone else sees it as I do. I've already indicated I'm open to an alternative policy provided the terms are at least as good, and the premium not more than I've already paid. The ball is in their court now and we have 2 more days before it becomes critical. I'll probably complain to the Ombudsman regardless of the outcome.
 
benjenbav said:
‘fraid I don’t understand that at all. Not saying you’re right or wrong.

As Robert Hunter wrote (in ‘Ripple’) “I don’t know; don’t really care”.

Just saying that, imho, it would be much easier to sort an alternative than find out.
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Sorry. It simply means I still have some time to play with.
 
Irish Rover said:
As per my OP, my current policy is valid until the middle of next week so that's not at issue. So the issue is the new policy which hasn't yet come into force yet.
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I think many of us missed this opening line - perhaps because the title suggested there was immediate doubt rather than "will I be insured". I now understand better why you seemed rather cavalier about your pride and joy bobbing about potentially without cover.

Irish Rover said:
But they have insured me. Policy paid and issued. The question is can they walk away from it? Why haven't they issued a formal notice of cancellation, if they're entitled to do so?
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I think you have a fascinating case that would make great case law. The thing about great case law is the only people it's great for at the time are the lawyers on both sides!

How much more expensive is a quote from a broker who actually knows what they are doing?
 
I don’t believe the insurers regard themselves as on risk . The broker for whatever reason proposed terms in breach of its delegated underwriting authority . Let’s imagine based on real cases you were a ferro concrete yacht and the broker incorrectly offered terms outside his DA and you then sank . The insurer would decline coverage and you would end up in court against both broker and insurer under what maybe different laws and jurisdiction. In the present case it seems for whatever reason the broker has offered cover and presumably you have renewal terms . The broker has no capacity for whatever reason to place the risk . The broker cannot insure itself so why don’t you obtain a quote elsewhere and go with another broker /insurer as the while the broker might be in breach of its contract with you I don’t really see how it can honour that contract . Cut your losses which seem marginal anyway and go elsewhere and pursue your ombudsman claim but at least you then have certainty as to cover being in place
 
I'm not sure I'd describe the company I'm dealing with as a broker although to be honest I'm also not sure I fully understand the various terms I see used such as broker, agent, insurance intermediary, insurer etc.
Anyway my policy is issued in the name of the company with which I'm dealing directly and they describe themselves in the policy as

X Limited trading as X.com, Underwriting Agents for Navigators & General (a trading name of Zurich Insurance Company Ltd).
 
Without knowing x ltd name I cannot say if a broker but I suspect they are. If a uk firm you can look them up on the FCA website to verify their status as an intermediary/broker/agent. These terms are basically mean the same thing namely a firm which has been granted authority by an insurer or a number of different insurers forming a panel (in this case Zurich who you see are actually now a German company having previously been an Irish regulated company(their holding co parent is Swiss and quoted on Swiss exchange) to accept risks within the terms of the agreement(a ToBA) they have with each insurer .Its fairly common for a broker to issue a policy branded in their name but underwritten by third party -it should say who the actual cover is provided by though in the terms of policy document. Clearly this doesn’t apply if you deal direct with the insurer as no broker involved.
 
There used to be a forumite here that was I think a broker/agent, used to talk about Ibza a lot and lived down Essex way, he seemed very knowledgeable about policy's.

Was it David of Mersy?or something?
 
Irish Rover said:
I'm not sure I'd describe the company I'm dealing with as a broker although to be honest I'm also not sure I fully understand the various terms I see used such as broker, agent, insurance intermediary, insurer etc.
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May not bode well if you are trying to enforce the contract you think you have! It is essential to win that argument that you know if your dispute lies with Zurich or X Ltd.
Irish Rover said:
Anyway my policy is issued in the name of the company with which I'm dealing directly and they describe themselves in the policy as

X Limited trading as X.com, Underwriting Agents for Navigators & General (a trading name of Zurich Insurance Company Ltd).
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Well just grabbing an example T&Cs page from the website of a large UK based company who describes themselves in those sorts of terms it says:

"In circumstances where We feel We cannot continue providing services to You, We will give you a minimum of 7 days’ notice."

It sounds like that's probably what they've done! At least in their minds:
Irish Rover said:
Why haven't they issued a formal notice of cancellation, if they're entitled to do so?
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is probably because they don't think there is anything to cancel - there isn't a new policy until the actual start date.

You said the underwriter has changed - I'm guessing it was Zurich and now its not, as Zurich announced it was selling N&G last year. Now if you were a belligerent sole, that might be useful ammunition if they are still representing themselves as selling for Zurich when its not!
 
Irish Rover said:
I had no idea you were such an insecure, needy type. I hope life will always treat you kindly.
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Well that is not nice is it ?
There isn’t a feeling of total security just because you have paid your premiums.....no one knows if their next claim will be covered....and we all know that after a successful claim the insurance company will recover whatever they gave you and more from your increased premiums. And every insurance policy you take out...regardless if it’s related to the boat or not...asks your claims history. So while one hand reluctantly giveth.....two hands and two feet gladly taketh
 
Momac said:
What make you think your insurance company likes anyone?
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We had a very successful relationship with the broker who helped us over a period of 25 years. For our liveaboard yacht and our sea school yachts. Excellent service and a simple phone call sorted any problems.
 
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