geem
Well-known member
From the Dufour 41 sales blurb "Robust and efficient, this yacht will cross seas and oceans with agility" bullshit in bucket fulls!
All new Dufou 41
- Thread starter Wansworth
- Start date
Chiara’s slave
Well-known member
The dufour would be difficult for round the cans too, not to mention that interior getting trashed pretty quickly by the lads on the rail. The difficulty with it is, what is it for? Not for boating of any type anyone here is willing to admit to. Excellent for having your marina neighbours for dinner, or drinks of course.
capnsensible
Well-known member
I've sailed several yachts across the Atlantic with 'windows' in the Hull. And one across the Pacific. Not sure what people are spooked about.
Even catamarans.
Would I deliver one of these? Sure.
Even catamarans.
Would I deliver one of these? Sure.
flaming
Well-known member
Yes, but why aren't you understanding that not being an Ocean going boat doesn't mean that the Dufour is a bad boat. It just means it's a bad boat for you.
You didn't buy your boat to be a round the cans racer, in the same way the potential buyers of a Dufour aren't looking for a boat to "actually sail long distance in relative comfort, carry large amounts of stores, fuel, water etc, have good sea berths as well as good bunks whilst at anchor, have a great galley that you can cook a meal at sea, have space for paddleboards, dive gear, kitesurfing gear, fenders, etc without storing salty stuff down below. "
You have to judge the boat against it's design criteria, and if it is a good boat for the sort of people who are looking for that sort of boat....
Stating that it is no good for the sort of sailing you do, is of exactly zero relevance unless you're the target audience.
capnsensible
Well-known member
Disagree. I'm sure it will. Some owners will happily do an atlantic circuit on one. And mebbe beyond. Doubt they will liveaboard for years though.
I'm sure you see all sorts rocking up in the Windies. Including new designs. Times move on.
flaming
Well-known member
I think plenty of people are willing to admit to that sort of boating. My own father was a past master at it. Mostly fair weather, very few night passages, mostly about being tied up in a new port in time for a sundowner and to get a table at a decent restaurant. Made for some very pleasant and very memorable holidays.
He had a Dufour 40 btw, and it was a sensationally good boat for the use. And btw, despite that particular boat's stellar reputation for performance I strongly suspect it would be slower than this new Dufour....
There's a massive amount of inverse snobbery hereabouts that people who sail boats designed first for living on, and then for sailing, are somehow inferior sailors... That unless you deliberately set sail in a force 8 instead of deciding to sit it out you're not a real sailor. That the only real sailing is done in narrow heavy boats where everything is as unergonomic as possible.
It's complete nonsense of course, but it seems to make some people feel better about themselves.
This isn't SAS selection... When you're talking about brand new 40 foot boats it's a leisure activity pursued by people who have hundreds of thousands of spare pounds to spend on it.
matt1
Well-known member
What’s sad about this polarised debate is that a lot of newbies will look up to the old salts on here and take some of the comments for gospel. To just dispel one on hull ports, mine are bonded and mechanically fixed with an inner flange thats through bolted. Across the entire (international) owners forum I’m aware of only 1 person reporting slight leaking so I don’t recognise the comment about there being many warranty claims. Some of the statements on here are just plain wrong and too sweeping.
I don’t feel the need to inflict my choice of boat on anyone. Each to their own, but having been sailing since 1975 in westerly’s, sadlers, contessas, sigmas and Hunters (All great boats, not a dud amongst them) I can say it was a revelation moving to a modern AWB a few years ago. Twin wheels (which I used to consider “showy and superfluous”) make handling a doddle, push button pilot control, lines by the helm, despite her beam the most balanced of all the boats I’ve ever sailed….I could go on about the step change she represents to my sailing. Several of my model have crossed the pond, and having done the same myself many years ago in a Beneteau, I plan to do the same with the current boat. Sure, I’d rather be in a Nicholson 35 if caught out in weather….but I’d have no worries either way. Delivery skippers don’t turn the work down either and they probably have more experience than most of us on here
As for the hull ports, actually I didn’t like them to start with, thinking they were “unseaworthy” but I love them now. Many a time on passage I’ll go below just to watch the water sluice by. My best memory of the 2022 season was spending 20 mins with my own private dolphin display that I would never have experienced if I hadn’t spotted them through the saloon hull port.
I don’t feel the need to inflict my choice of boat on anyone. Each to their own, but having been sailing since 1975 in westerly’s, sadlers, contessas, sigmas and Hunters (All great boats, not a dud amongst them) I can say it was a revelation moving to a modern AWB a few years ago. Twin wheels (which I used to consider “showy and superfluous”) make handling a doddle, push button pilot control, lines by the helm, despite her beam the most balanced of all the boats I’ve ever sailed….I could go on about the step change she represents to my sailing. Several of my model have crossed the pond, and having done the same myself many years ago in a Beneteau, I plan to do the same with the current boat. Sure, I’d rather be in a Nicholson 35 if caught out in weather….but I’d have no worries either way. Delivery skippers don’t turn the work down either and they probably have more experience than most of us on here
As for the hull ports, actually I didn’t like them to start with, thinking they were “unseaworthy” but I love them now. Many a time on passage I’ll go below just to watch the water sluice by. My best memory of the 2022 season was spending 20 mins with my own private dolphin display that I would never have experienced if I hadn’t spotted them through the saloon hull port.
geem
Well-known member
We also see that new designs are not so durable. Glued in windows falling out. Steering failures. Rig failures. These also occur on older boats but to a lesser extent. New designs are pared down to a minimum of everything. Yes they will cross an ocean, no doubt, but the level of refubishment needed and general failures ramps up quickly. We know several new designs that do the East to West trip across the pond but ship them back. For good reason. Its tougher going back as you well know.Disagree. I'm sure it will. Some owners will happily do an atlantic circuit on one. And mebbe beyond. Doubt they will liveaboard for years though.
I'm sure you see all sorts rocking up in the Windies. Including new designs. Times move on.
We know one couple that sailed their modern 44 footer across the pond. Then up the East Coast of USA. They did the Salty Dog back to the Caribbean then shipped back to Europe. The southbound Salty Dog convinced him it wasn't the right boat for and East bound Atlantic crossing. He was very matter of fact about it. Experience taught him. He now has a big Oyster and he sailed to the Pacific. Happy Chappy
geem
Well-known member
See #121
flaming
Well-known member
Don't confuse marketing with who the boat is actually targeted at.
geem
Well-known member
The first negative posts on this thread were about it's looks. That is purely subjective. I fully understand why people buy such a boat and stated that in my posts. Sales blurb rates it as a boat for crossing oceans. I don't agree. Yes it will cross an ocean but its optimised for weekend sailing from a marina berth. This isnt derogatory. Its simple fact. If I was doing that kind of sailing I wouldn't choose my boat. If sales blurb was more honest about the intended use I wouldn't be on this thread. The target audience is the weekend holiday home not the ocean sailor so why bullshit the target asudience?
capnsensible
Well-known member
There brochure advertises, without details, an adventure version, an ocean version and a performance version. Wonder what the differences are?
Whatever, they will have to conform to the Recreational Craft Directive for whatever they are advertised to do.
Whatever, they will have to conform to the Recreational Craft Directive for whatever they are advertised to do.
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lustyd
Well-known member
Your version is just sailing. Cruising also involves going places.
lustyd
Well-known member
Nonsense, everyone knows the windows will stop it from crossing an ocean. If you'd tried this you would surely have died so you must be lyingI've sailed several yachts across the Atlantic with 'windows' in the Hull. And one across the Pacific. Not sure what people are spooked about.
Even catamarans.
Would I deliver one of these? Sure.
geem
Well-known member
All of the Caribbean Windward and Leeward islands many times, Haiti, Cuba, Bahamas, Florida, Panama, Colombia, Venezuela, not to mention Spain, Portugal, Madiera, Canaries and Azores. Where have you been lately? It not a pissing contest but you brought it up.
lustyd
Well-known member
No, it's not a pissing contest. That was a very simple way to get you to admit you go and stop at various places and don't just sail all day every day. Sadly you failed the SAS entry exam and admitted you do the kind of sailing you derided me for.
FYI the general consensus is that for the kind of sailing you just described, a catamaran is ideal.
doug748
Well-known member
I appreciate and like some newer boat designs, some I think could be improved. Many don't look very good to me and some construction is questionable. On the whole I'd rather reserve the right to comment on new boats as they appear, this being a sailing forum an all.
With regard to patronage, stereotyping and snobbery it's: six of one, half dozen of the other..
"I once owned an old boat, narrow beam, cramped accommodation, dark and depressing colours, low headroom, damp and with an ambient smell of mould
...trapped in a dark wooden box.
...tiny dark boats with no creature comforts that cross oceans well and have a wardrobe full of hair shirts.
…..luddite attitudes
…closeted chip on my shoulder with envy club ……. amend your antediluvian views.
You can endure proper sailing without suffering the constant urge to varnish or heat tins of Fray Bentos over a spirit stove.
….very depressing. There’s no outdoor space at all, it has the feel of a prison ship to me.
For those whose idea of boating fun resembles a solitary SAS yomp across a Falklands moor,
I wouldn’t want your boat as a gift "
.
With regard to patronage, stereotyping and snobbery it's: six of one, half dozen of the other..
"I once owned an old boat, narrow beam, cramped accommodation, dark and depressing colours, low headroom, damp and with an ambient smell of mould
...trapped in a dark wooden box.
...tiny dark boats with no creature comforts that cross oceans well and have a wardrobe full of hair shirts.
…..luddite attitudes
…closeted chip on my shoulder with envy club ……. amend your antediluvian views.
You can endure proper sailing without suffering the constant urge to varnish or heat tins of Fray Bentos over a spirit stove.
….very depressing. There’s no outdoor space at all, it has the feel of a prison ship to me.
For those whose idea of boating fun resembles a solitary SAS yomp across a Falklands moor,
I wouldn’t want your boat as a gift "
.
Wansworth
Well-known member
Alll I did was say I didn’t like the windows?
geem
Well-known member
You have a lot to learn.No, it's not a pissing contest. That was a very simple way to get you to admit you go and stop at various places and don't just sail all day every day. Sadly you failed the SAS entry exam and admitted you do the kind of sailing you derided me for.
FYI the general consensus is that for the kind of sailing you just described, a catamaran is ideal.
The 1500nm upwind leg from Panama to Dominica was not one you would want to do in a catamaran. I did an Atlantic circuit in a catamaran in 2004/05. That taughtt me that we needed a proper bluewater capable boat. The Pacific boatyards have more than a few boats with broken bulkheads.
I think I know that I sail and stop places. But the sailing between those places gets measured in hundreds of miles, sometimes thousands. The benifit of picking the right boat for the job is it is equally at home at anchor or in the ocean.
lustyd
Well-known member
Shovel for Geem!