All new Dufou 41

[geem]

You must spend many days at sea to think it's such an issue, and your planning must be poor to have such terrible experience of passage making. Don't you enjoy the places you visit too?

On our two month cruise this summer we probably spent a total of 5-6 days at sea and 45 anchored or moored. We didn't experience any weather at sea that would necessitate such design choices - we used modern planning tools and stayed put if heavy weather was incoming. We enjoyed the spacious deck (wanted more space to lay out if truth be told). We enjoyed our larger than king size bed. We enjoyed the good kitchen and spacious shower.

We didn't have any problems while at sea whatsoever. The bed was comfy, we read while leaning against the "headboard" (aka side of boat).

It sounds like you sail an apartment that you move been venues when the weather is benign. I have no problem with that. The Durfour 41 also looks ideal for that.
Some of us do different things with our boats. I am sure the Dufour will sell to those also looking for an apartment on water.
When we used to sail in the UK we actually enjoyed sailing. We would sail from North Wales to Southern Ireland to Northern Ireland to IOM and back to North Wales in a two week holiday. Or sail up to Scotland on a three week holiday. Cruise around then sail back. We never stayed more than a day or two in each place. You see, we love the sailing. The actual process of getting from one place to another under sail. It may be a rarity these days but we want a boat that does that efficiently. We still have the things that the modern boat boasts. If we don't have it we don't want it.
The galley in our boat is bigger than in some peoples apartments. Ditto the shower. The cockpit seats 10 and the space on the foredeck is huge. All this on an old boat. Who would have though it?

 

[Zagato]

It is a racer/cruiser and not somewhere for what you suggest but for the 4 crew to work during the day and crash out at night. Perfect for the job!

OK I get that. Perhaps just one scatter cushion then ? EDIT just looked, they have covered that base ??

 

[lustyd]

just to say they are bigger, have more toilets, than the last one.
However they are no doubt just the job for the intended use, which I guess is almost exclusively maximising chartering income, in the Med.

Not all, one of the boats we looked at at the boat show was I think a 42 and had one head on board. The forward owners cabin had full size wardrobes instead of a second head and I think they’d also put in a work desk (not nav desk). I agree that the sofa behind a sofa and too many toilets mentality is daft in boat designs.

 

[Tranona]

Here is a top selling boat aimed at the same market (class still going strong) theyachtmarket.com/en/boat-for-sale/2343553/

Beneteau make boats a bit like the Dufour as well although maybe not so extreme and boats under different brand names that are closer to what you might like. It is known as understanding your customers and their needs.

 

[SaltyC]

Horses for courses, each to their own depending on priorities. No disrespect or judgement to either extreme - traditional wood construction, narrow beam, long keel and small accommodation . Latest plumb bow, max beam to transom, twin wheels and a huge saloon with minimal handholds.

I haven't sailed the former, but the Twister was gorgeous and sailed like a dream. Have skippered late Jeanneau 45's with twin wheels, accommodated 9 (10 berths) and did the job. Not impressed with insecure interior when hit by 30 knot gust or tge IKEA interior (apologies) with ironed on edging to lockers peeling off at 3 year old.
I prefer the modern low maintenance slightly older deep forefoot comfortable sea kindly motion.
BUT each to their own, I think it's luxury after starting on a Hurley 20 followed by a Westerly 22 (hated that boat, ugly, faster sideways than forwards to windward) but I wasn't even a teenager at tge time.

 

[Skylark]

It sounds like you sail an apartment that you move been venues when the weather is benign. I have no problem with that. The Durfour 41 also looks ideal for that.
Some of us do different things with our boats. I am sure the Dufour will sell to those also looking for an apartment on water.
When we used to sail in the UK we actually enjoyed sailing. We would sail from North Wales to Southern Ireland to Northern Ireland to IOM and back to North Wales in a two week holiday. Or sail up to Scotland on a three week holiday. Cruise around then sail back. We never stayed more than a day or two in each place. You see, we love the sailing. The actual process of getting from one place to another under sail. It may be a rarity these days but we want a boat that does that efficiently. We still have the things that the modern boat boasts. If we don't have it we don't want it.
The galley in our boat is bigger than in some peoples apartments. Ditto the shower. The cockpit seats 10 and the space on the foredeck is huge. All this on an old boat. Who would have though it?

As I’m sure you’ll have witnessed, half the population of Manchester relocates to north Wales on a Friday evening during the summer, many of them heading towards their boats to do exactly as you describe so not quite doing things differently.
From Anglesey we sailed extensively to Southern Ireland, as far west as Cork, many weekends into the Dublin ports, ditto IoM, long weekends into Carlingford, Belfast Lough and Rathlin and 2 week cruises into the Clyde. We like sailing, too. All of this in the comfort of a modern AWB.

We don’t watch a lot of TV but happened to be watching an old recording yesterday and, amusingly, an Ikea ad appeared. We usually Fast Forward, the ads but, intrigued, I decided to watch. Now I understand the point you’re trying to make. Their tag line is “the wonderful, every day” ?

 

[lustyd]

sounds like you sail an apartment that you move been venues

Yes. This is cruising. Don’t you enjoy the places you visit? I can’t see the attraction of endlessly being under way in foul weather, I do this to visit places and enjoy them as well as enjoying myself while there so tend to also swim, paddleboard, dive, snorkel, beach, bbq, walk, run, etc. before moving on. Not sure why I’d set sail with a bad forecast, and everywhere in the Channel is within a days sail so it would be extremely rare to be caught unawares these days. I imagine easier in a wooden boat with some wet seaweed for a forecast, but we also enjoy Internet on board ?

 

[oldgit]

Here’s a lovely boat for the MAB lovers

View attachment 150202

could suggest more about who moors next to him ? ........................................................

 

[oldgit]

The MoBo world has also seen this anguished debate, one upstart motorboat company did suffer the same critical comments, but they certainly proved there was a market for well priced mass produced motorboats.
Have no doubt that many folk entered and remained in the hobby due to being able to afford ( new and secondhand) a boat that offered some comfort for the entire family.

Boats produced by this company were not my cup of tea but there are now large numbers of them in marinas and boatyards and one might suggest they move more frequently than many boats owned by critics.
Have recently sold a boat made by one of the traditional boat companies, a solid well built boat.
Have bought one that could be regarded as a prime example of the new I*** generation , with all the knobs and whistles, a bog you could actually stand up in and even turn round in !!!!. It is not as well put together and built to a price.
Recently had an opportunity to move my original boat for its new owner (we are still talking) ...it was a sobering experience !.
Like trying to manoeuvre a cast iron bath full of ballast, interior not laid out very well, bit dark inside, worse a B&Q ladder to get through a postage stamp hatch to a tiny flybridge and radar arch guaranteed to be an obstical no matter what you were attempting to do.
Would I change back.? No chance.

For those whose idea of boating fun resembles a solitary SAS yomp across a Falklands moor, we salute you and good luck in persuading your kids/friends or family aboard.

Recently encountered some proper unexpected Thames Estuary stroppyness in the new boat.
Certainly nothing to trouble any hard bitten chap with oilskins.
The new boat might even have handled the chop with more aplomb than my previous boat, a hull designed 45 years ago by a legendary designer whos name I can never spell correctly.

 

[flaming]

It always amazes me the strength of opinions some people have about boats that they openly admit are not designed with their type of sailing in mind.

Here's a great tip... If you look at a boat and think "I don't like that layout, it's not suitable for the sort of sailing / living on board that I do" then it's very likely that your type of sailor is not the intended customer. And consequently your opinions are of almost zero relevance. Continuing to express those opinions in a negative "Ikea interior" way (Or damp dark cellar for the other stereotype...) is really not a good look.

Meanwhile, someone else will look at the same boat and think "wow, that looks so practical / enjoyable for the type of sailing I do". And they will enquire about potentially owning one.
In the end it's criticism from people who are the target audience for the boat that is way more valid.

 

[geem]

Yes. This is cruising. Don’t you enjoy the places you visit? I can’t see the attraction of endlessly being under way in foul weather, I do this to visit places and enjoy them as well as enjoying myself while there so tend to also swim, paddleboard, dive, snorkel, beach, bbq, walk, run, etc. before moving on. Not sure why I’d set sail with a bad forecast, and everywhere in the Channel is within a days sail so it would be extremely rare to be caught unawares these days. I imagine easier in a wooden boat with some wet seaweed for a forecast, but we also enjoy Internet on board ?

I thought my version was cruising. Your was more like not cruising?
Do you never go for a sail for the pleasure of the sail itself?
Now I have been retired for the last 9 years we have unlimited time so we stay in places longer but we still sail for the pleasure of the sail. Currently in Guadeloupe. Off to Antigua in a couple of days.

 

[Blueboatman]

When I had the junk rigged corribee in the Caribbean it was Interesting that everyone wanted to come for a daysail.
Because it was so easy to hoik up the one anchor , pull up the sail and sail off ( with shallow draft) for a beach /lunch/bar somewhere .. and back again .
Introduced a fair number of non sailors to a bit of a jaunt on the water too because it felt so un-intimidating and simple and it didn’t heel over much..

 

[Chiara’s slave]

When I had the junk rigged corribee in the Caribbean it was Interesting that everyone wanted to come for a daysail.
Because it was so easy to hoik up the one anchor , pull up the sail and sail off ( with shallow draft) for a beach /lunch/bar somewhere .. and back again .
Introduced a fair number of non sailors to a bit of a jaunt on the water too because it felt so un-intimidating and simple and it didn’t heel over much..

Ours, being so light, and dinghy like in characteristics, plus the obvious performance potential, encourages people to ask for a sail. We do a fair bit of day sailing in any case, it’s great just to pop out and blast about in the solent just for the hell of it, as well as using her as a hiliday caravan of the touring variety.

 

[Frogmogman]

It always amazes me the strength of opinions some people have about boats that they openly admit are not designed with their type of sailing in mind.

Here's a great tip... If you look at a boat and think "I don't like that layout, it's not suitable for the sort of sailing / living on board that I do" then it's very likely that your type of sailor is not the intended customer. And consequently your opinions are of almost zero relevance. Continuing to express those opinions in a negative "Ikea interior" way (Or damp dark cellar for the other stereotype...) is really not a good look.

Meanwhile, someone else will look at the same boat and think "wow, that looks so practical / enjoyable for the type of sailing I do". And they will enquire about potentially owning one.
In the end it's criticism from people who are the target audience for the boat that is way more valid.

Spot on. The real point is that the AWBs being derided come from manufacturers who have full order books, so the boats they are producing clearly correspond with what their customers want.

I used to frequent a forum for Morgan cars (of which I owned a 4/4, bought new). The views of some of my fellow owners never ceased to amaze me, constant criticism and disparagement of new models etc, when the critics had almost always bought a second hand one. The primary concern of any manufacturer should be to satisfy the requirements of paying punters.

 

[geem]

The real point is that the AWBs being derided come from manufacturers who have full order books, so the boats they are producing clearly correspond with what their customers want.

I may be in the minority, but my comments are based on the sailing I do. The Dufour 41 is totally unsuitable for my kind of cruising. We have done over 36,000nm in the last 10 years. In my opinion the Dufour 41 is just not the right boat if you want to actually sail long distance in relative comfort, carry large amounts of stores, fuel, water etc, have good sea berths as well as good bunks whilst at anchor, have a great galley that you can cook a meal at sea, have space for paddleboards, dive gear, kitesurfing gear, fenders, etc without storing salty stuff down below. It's a great boat to go nowhere. It's not a great boat to go somewhere far

 

[flaming]

I may be in the minority, but my comments are based on the sailing I do.

It always amazes me the strength of opinions some people have about boats that they openly admit are not designed with their type of sailing in mind.

The Dufour 41 is totally unsuitable for my kind of cruising.

It always amazes me the strength of opinions some people have about boats that they openly admit are not designed with their type of sailing in mind.

In my opinion the Dufour 41 is just not the right boat if you want to actually sail long distance in relative comfort, carry large amounts of stores, fuel, water etc, have good sea berths as well as good bunks whilst at anchor, have a great galley that you can cook a meal at sea, have space for paddleboards, dive gear, kitesurfing gear, fenders, etc without storing salty stuff down below. It's a great boat to go nowhere. It's not a great boat to go somewhere far

It always amazes me the strength of opinions some people have about boats that they openly admit are not designed with their type of sailing in mind.

People to whom the design does appeal have described how they see sailing and cruising and why this type of boat (if not necessarily this actual boat) is very suitable for that use. And yet you continue to make the same point about this boat not being suitable for your needs as if that's some kind of "gotcha".

Great, don't buy one...

Would you like to hear my essay on why your boat is utterly unsuitable as a round the cans racer? I'm sure it's just as relevant as your opinions on the Dufour....

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I quite like it and I'm quite sure I could take it long distance single handed and be in considerably more comfort than I am on my Twister 99% of the time. For the other 1% I would suck it up like a man.
However, for the money I would buy something else. Probably older and less capable than my current boat. And take that long distance single handed too. Because I like the sailing. I'm not interested in the places. I've been everywhere I thought would be interesting over a 35 year career In aviation. Most were pretty much the same. Japan being an exception. But if I want to visit somewhere I fly. If I want to sail I sail.

 

[geem]

Would you like to hear my essay on why your boat is utterly unsuitable as a round the cans racer? I'm sure it's just as relevant as your opinions on the Dufour....
[/QUOTE]
I will happily write that essay for you. We didn't buy it for that?

 

[flaming]

I will happily write that essay for you. We didn't buy it for that?

You are so close to understanding this!

 

[geem]

You are so close to understanding this!

I fully understand the difference between a Dufour 41 and and an ocean going boat. Don't you?