AIS System - Where to Start?

[WindyWindyWindy]

A VHF with AIS is not a useful product for what you want as it only has a tiny display and are receive only.

No, you can get integrated transponders these days.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

What other instrumentation do you have?

For around a grand you could get a Triton 2 multifunction display and an Em-trac B900 transceiver.
As with all the other suggestions you will also have the expense of either a splitter or second VHF antenna installation. If you don't mind a lesser known brand a CAMINO-108S is a little cheaper than the Em-trac and has a built in splitter. I've been using this combination for 4 years and it works perfectly. The AIS display on the Triton is very good.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

For around a grand you could get a Triton 2 multifunction display and an Em-trac B900 transceiver.
As with all the other suggestions you will also have the expense of either a splitter or second VHF antenna installation. If you don't mind a lesser known brand a CAMINO-108S is a little cheaper than the Em-trac and has a built in splitter. I've been using this combination for 4 years and it works perfectly. The AIS display on the Triton is very good.

An Em-trak B921 AIS transceiver from F&C Marine and a Raymarine Element 7S chartplotter with 2 region charts thrown in from Hudson Marine comes to a total of £964. Then there will be a VHF antenna which can be got from Pirates Cave for £34 bringing the total to £998.80. Add £1.19 worth of cable to power the devices gives the OP 1p change from his budget of £1000, which is my commission.

 

[Jonny A]

The other instruments I have are a base-model chartplotter (Raymarine Dragonfly 4, tiny but does the job well) plus an up to date VHF with DSC. I don't mind adding a splitter for the VHF aerial or a dedicated GPS aerial (the Dragonfly's is built in) but I really don't want 4 or 5 boxes all hooked up with different cables, PSUs, etc. I'm determined to keep my electronics suite as simple as possible, because hard-won experience tells me KISS is the most important factor for longevity and reliability.

I'm still bewildered you can buy big-name VHFs with built-in AIS but not chartplotters.

 

[Tranona]

I'm still bewildered you can buy big-name VHFs with built-in AIS but not chartplotters.

VHFs with inbuilt AIS are normally used to send the signal to an MFD acting as a chart plotter. It is price competitive with a freestanding VHF and AIS, but as I explained pretty poor as a stand alone AIS display. They are not big sellers as most people already have a DSC VHF and adding AIS to a chart plotter is easier and cheaper using a freestanding receiver or transponder if you feel the need.

Seriously, step back to your KISS principle and do what us old salts did years ago to get the huge advantage of knowing where ships are when in busy shipping lanes and get a NASA. As I said this is far and away the biggest step up from mark 1 eyeball. All the rest you can get such as knowing where ships are going and even automatically calling them up plus sending a signal about where you are are really just for playing with and of little use pottering around the Channel. We happily sailed back on forth across the channel with a log, compass and echosounder. The first big jump up was Decca - knowing where you were without trying to get dodgy RDF signal and then Nasa which showed you where other ships (most of them anyway!) were - luxury!

You are already way past that with your Dragonfly which reliably shows you where you are on a detailed chart of your surroundings. The amount of time you need to know where ships are is a tiny fraction of sailing time and simply does not justify spending huge amounts of money on the sophisticated bits of gear you can buy. I have just sold a boat that I had from new with everything on it - full set of Garmin gear at approx £6k. Bit like washing machines or PCs only ever used a fraction of what it could do. With the boat I am refitting I am paring right down to the Garmin plotter and Quark AIS plus tablet on Wi Fi, and even that is a bit OTT as if I could cope with a just a tablet I could get the same basic functionality, except the ability to read in sunlight in the cockpit for half the price.

 

[doug748]

One further possibility, a development of the Vesper unit mentioned earlier:

AIS Transceivers - Vesper Marine XB-9010 Watchmate Vision 2 Transponder

In many ways less suitable for a small boat and you would not be using some of it's advanced features but you may want to look at it.

.

 

[Jonny A]

Seriously, step back to your KISS principle and do what us old salts did years ago to get the huge advantage of knowing where ships are when in busy shipping lanes and get a NASA.

To be honest, this is exactly what I'm now thinking.

 

[TSB240]

To be honest, this is exactly what I'm now thinking.

Really?

I don't think some old salts are giving you the best advice!

The Nasa AIS receiver is more expensive than a current Chinese ais transponder.
The Transponder will tell the big boys out there where you are and give you as much info as Nasa.

There is actually no cost difference if you add in the requirement for a seperate tx vhf aerial for the AIS that let's the big boys know you are out there..

But then this also gives you an emergency back up in the event your main vhf antenna is faulty or lost.

This is a no brainer decision..........

If you really want to complicate things then you could add a yakka nmea wifi transmitter unit to the Chinese ais and use a phone, tablet or PC with either free software or navionics to display the AIS info.

But that is now making things far too complicated for your needs.

Irrespective of which way go you must be able to easily see an AIS display in the cockpit.

It is far more comforting to actually see that a big ship has obviously changed course to avoid you. This will help stop panicked dashes up and down steps to get a view of a tiny display down below.

 

[awol]

Irrespective of which way go you must be able to easily see an AIS display in the cockpit.

It is far more comforting to actually see that a big ship has obviously changed course to avoid you. This will help stop panicked dashes up and down steps to get a view of a tiny display down below.

Before I got my Etrak transceiver I already had a AIS enabled VHF with a command mike in the cockpit. The mike has a small display which I find useful only for identifying which target the alpha-numeric data refers to. Target track, CPA and TCPA are what I find most useful for reassurance and, if necessary, avoidance.

 

[Tranona]

Really?

I don't think some old salts are giving you the best advice!

The Nasa AIS receiver is more expensive than a current Chinese ais transponder.
The Transponder will tell the big boys out there where you are and give you as much info as Nasa.

There is actually no cost difference if you add in the requirement for a seperate tx vhf aerial for the AIS that let's the big boys know you are out there..

They do indeed cost roughly the same and do the same job So depends on whether you want a well tried, reliable bit of kit you can buy in any chandlers and made by a well established UK company or buy sight unseen from China.

Don't knock the old salts. The addition of a NASA to where the OP is now is just as valid as it was 25 years ago so it is not a surprise the product is still available.

 

[st599]

No, you can get integrated transponders these days.

AIS doesn't use a transponder. A transponder replies to an interrogation, AIS sends constantly.

 

[laika]

depends on whether you want a well tried, reliable bit of kit you can buy in any chandlers and made by a well established UK company or buy sight unseen from China.

Isn't the point of this forum that we learn from the recommendations of others? The OP had transmit at the top of the wish list. TSB240 provided a personal recommendation for the chinese brand. Several others have provided recommendations which may or may not be from personal experience. Searching the forum shows other satisfied users:
Matsutec HP528A AIS Vs HP528
...and I recall a bunch of threads where people were satisfied with other cheap chinese brands which were a fraction of the cost of mainstream brands.

Sure you can say buying anything from the far east with no UK support presence is a punt. You also have to factor in VAT and duty which might be applied. The NMEA out on the matsutec looks more in the realms of one for the home hobbyist than simple NMEA plug and play )more research required). But it does suit the OP's original standalone transceiver spec, there do seem to be a bunch of forumites who've had good experiences with this type of thing and let's face it, electronics are ephemeral. My super-expensive raymarine AIS failed not long out of warranty and the "repair" (replacing the mainboard) cost more than a matsutec.

 

[tillergirl]

Sure you can say buying anything from the far east with no UK support presence is a punt.

There is Onwa UK support - they are called Avesmarine.

 

[slawosz]

@tillergirl is happy with Onwa, its good recommendation. I would say that times when cheap chineese was unrealiabe passed. All components are standard now, not to mention that most of devices are being run by cheap as chips microcomputers. Raspberry Pi 4 is size of credit card and has more power than good home PC 10 years ago. Rest is just a software.
20 years ago it was much harder to build realiable chartplotter, now, using common parts its really simple.
That said, I see that its harder to gain boaters trust - if someone is buying equipment for next 20 years, there is a point for going with trusty company.

 

[KompetentKrew]

I thought @Jonny A (are you also @JonnyA?) listed their requirements very clearly in the post with which they started this thread - their first priority was to be seen by others.

The list of requirements, and its order, was rubbished by others because "he obviously doesn't understand AIS" - yes, I know that receive-only AIS is cheaper so most people choose it as their first or budget option, but that doesn't mean that Jonny's requirements or preferences were wrong.

The suggestions of an Em-trak AIS transceiver and a chartplotter which is NMEA 2000 capable, as suggested by @Buck Turgidson and @AngusMcDoon in posts #42 and #43 meet all Jonny's requirements including the original first priority and they fit within budget.

I'm probably a bit vain, but I like good quality instruments - which show their quality by looking good. I guess it's a small point of pride for me - I'm extremely scruffy in many other ways. The Onwa looks a Raymarine chartplotter from 15 or 20 years ago - Raymarine's A-series looked like that; I'm not sure what year its was released, but it won an award in 2008. I know Nasa are trusted and have good customer service, but we can say the same about Em-Trak - I've been in touch with both companies the last month, and they're equally responsive to email. But the Em-Track doesn't look like an accessory for the BBC Micro.

As far as I can see the Nasa AIS SART Plotter is £250 or £300 down a dead end, as far as upgradability and future-proofing is concerned - if OP wants to upgrade to transmitting by AIS in the future then he has to throw the Nasa away and start again. As far as I can see the SART Plotter does not make the AIS information available by NMEA to output to a chartplotter - the Nasa AIS Engine does, but it does so using the older version of NMEA, NMEA 0183, which is now starting to become less common on newer products; in any case, the AIS Engine doesn't have a screen and OP's current chartplotter doesn't accept either type of NMEA. I don't normally go on about future-proofing, but the Nasa options don't even address OP's first requirement - to be seen by others!

The suggestions made by @Buck Turgidson and @AngusMcDoon strike me as so "obviously" right that I don't understand why the discussion is continuing in other directions.

Also the Em-Trak will allow data from the boat's old NMEA 0183 instruments (assuming it has any) to be displayed by the chartplotter. OP explicitly states this isn't a requirement, but it's a nice extra to have and may become valuable in the future (e.g. if upgrading to an NMEA 2000 autopilot).

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Rest is just a software.

That's a comment straight from the 1970's. Software is typically 75% of the engineering effort and development cost of the types of devices discussed in this thread. Some (who may or may not be biased ) might argue that it's the most technically difficult part to get right.

 

[slawosz]

That's a comment straight from the 1970's. Software is typically 75% of the engineering effort and development cost of the types of devices discussed in this thread.

Well, yes and no. Last 10 years made huge huge huge difference in software development. Not to mention hardware as nentioned Raspberry Pi.
This is great topic for discussion but dont want to hijack the topic.

 

[Tranona]

Isn't the point of this forum that we learn from the recommendations of others? The OP had transmit at the top of the wish list. TSB240 provided a personal recommendation for the chinese brand. Several others have provided recommendations which may or may not be from personal experience. Searching the forum shows other satisfied users:
.

Suggest you actually read the OPs posts. In post #1 his reasons for wanting transmit were based on a misunderstanding and a transceiver would not do what he wants. In post #8 he clarified that he is channel pottering and cross channel. In post#23 he specifically said he just wants to know the position of others and does not want to get into PCs and tablets. In post #44 he confirms he has a Dragonfly (which will not receive AIS signals) and a VHF DSC.

So pretty clear he just needs a receiver that will display. This leads to only 2 possibilities, a NASA, or a Matsutec HP 528A. If he is prepared to go down the tablet route a Quark. Exactly as I have described in post#45.

There is lots of chaff on this thread (what's new) where people say what they would do or have done rather than understanding the OPs requirements.

As it happens I have just been through this with similar requirements except that I also needed a chart plotter and my solution (as I explained earlier ) is to use a Quark for AIS because it can export to my Garmin over 0183 and wi fi to a tablet. However this solution, although it meets his basic need of seeing where ships are in relation to him it is not suitable (because his Dragonfly wont display AIS) unless he has a tablet.

In the end the only alternatives are the Matsutec and the NASA - essentially the same price and while the former does transmit, that is not on the list of requirements. He may well of course decide that he would like to transmit his position so that others can see him in which case other options open up in addition to the HP528A and these may well have other features that he could use.

As always the route forward depends on where you are starting from and where you hope to end up. at the moment he knows where he is, he can communicate with other ships and send distress calls. Just wants to add the ability to see where ships are using AIS signals.

 

[laika]

In post #8 he clarified that he is channel pottering and cross channel. In post#23 he specifically said he just wants to know the position of others

The OP has repeatedly stated a lack of knowledge in what’s available. The OP can clarify but it doesn’t look like a disclaiming of interest in transmit, rather a willingness to consider receive only, presumably influenced by:

Personally I think a transmitter is of little value. Close misses and actual collisions were almost unheard of before AIS because people were more aware of the dangers and professional skippers of big boats pretty good at spotting and missing you!

You’re entitled to your view on the first part but for channel crossing I suspect you are in the minority: why would you *not* want to be seen, other than cost or tinfoil hat reasons? It’s hard to know what you’re arguing with the second part. Is it that one shouldn’t get transmit because the added safety will make you complacent? The Ouzo wasn’t fitted with AIS.

All my post said was that a forum is about sharing experiences, others have had positive experiences with the Chinese import stuff and that lack of retail consumer protection should be balanced against added functionality over budget kit bought retail in that light. A little radar-style display wouldn’t be my choice from any manufacturer but I recognise that just because I bought one solution doesn’t mean I’m going to dismiss options which may suit others more.

 

[fredrussell]

… just want to get to the point where
I can see AIS data on my chartplotter when I want to. If I get a suitable chartplotter…

I'd probably be willing to spend around £1000+ if I could find a known brand combined chartplotter and AIS transponder - but they don't seem to make them! Does anyone know why?

If I were in your situation, with that budget I’d buy a 6 or 7 inch Garmin plotter and an AIS send and receive box by Emtrak. You could save £200 by getting the Matsutec version of the Emtrak box, but I understand your wish to get ‘name brand’ stuff in this important area.

You’ll want a chartplotter anyway, and by going this route you’ll save valuable space on your instrument area in cockpit by not having a separate AIS display.

Nowt wrong with the NASA unit, and they’re a very nice company to deal with, with great customer support, but if you’re going to go the chartplotter route I’d say just add an AIS box of your choice to that. The Garmin Echomap plotters come with full Uk charts included, which saves a few quid