A statement on behalf of the defence

[Mirelle]

Ah, the Mystery Class

That is a boat that I can recognise. Robert Clark's first design, a metacentric shelf design which is actually a metacentroid as well (the centre of buoyancy does not move vertically or fore and aft as she heels) usually built with tiny little tillers just to show how well mannered they are.

For more, see Mulligan's tread in the Classic Boat forum.

Now if somewone were to put that boat back into production....

 

[Guest]

Re: New boy on horizon ....

It will become LEGEND in its own time

It will not be MOODY, it will grace any marina

The PRINCESS of the oceans

A WARRIOR when asked to perform

The devils TRIDENT when passing all at regattas

It will ECLIPSE all around with its class and appeal

.......... have we started something here ?????

 

[Guest]

Re: A question for you, Nigel.

Who knows ..... but I live and work in the FSU and know the yards out here and the links they have with various so-called Quality builders ..... or should we say 'kit-assemblers'

 

[Chris_Robb]

Re: This is going to sound like bullshit, but I\'m sincere. Honest

Ken - I have never put it into words, as to why one gets so attached to a more classic type of boat, but I agree with everything you have said.

What hasn't been said is that the Classic Twister and other Tyler hulls (for example) - will be around years after the euroyots have been left as 'gone to flop'.

I sailed a 10 old Bav 40 in a moderate wind and sea in the channel, and the whole boat was moving and twisting horribly. You could see the furniture moving against the hull and even at anchor in a swel, the thing continued to grown and creak. Then latest ones are built even lighter.

I think in a few years time- surveyors will know the true extent of the problems with well used examples - and second hand prices will fall through the floor.

I'll stick with what I can call my second SWMBO

 

[zefender]

Re: we\'re getting into a circular discussion here

Nobody knows how long the modern hulls will last for. Those who sail old boats now are talking from a different perspective too - they sail those boats that are still going - there must be plenty that didn't make it. But we hear little of these.

So a 10 year old Bav 40 was sailed and it twisted all over the place - that's hardly sufficient grounds to damn the entire marque. So an old boat has a bronze plaque with the makers name and mine 'only' has vinyl lettering. Do I care? Does it make either a better boat?

I've got a one year old B40. It's been through some sizeable seas and full gales. No it's not comfortable in such weather but at no time did I feel unsafe -for me or the boat. I'm also not convinced the deck equipment is undersized either. But many arguments about the the so called Ben/Jen/Bavs are so empty (Ken's luvverly prose apart) that it simply comes down to horses for courses and its mighty hard to have owners of classic boats (for that read surviving old ones) to accept that successful modern ones are not something nasty that's just crawled near their nose.

Before buying the Bav 40, I looked about quite a bit (for about 10 years really!) When I convinced myself I actually had the dosh, I started looking in earnest. I saw a three year old grp Endurance 38, build by a respectable yard. I chartered it for a week and I loved it. I asked my wife to come and see it with me. She hated it! Pokey, unclean, poorly designed, claustrophobic, etc etc she said. The trip back along the M4 was quiet. I realised that we were talking from a diffferent perspective. I didn't mind that the finish was very dodgy (eg unpainted, unlined locker insides, rough bit of plastic here and there) I could have bought it and sailed it myself or with friends. But I decided to go and look at Bavs, and took my wife too. There was no contest. OK, I wouldn't have a boat that would enable me to cope comfortably in all conditions but, for the same price, I'd have a roomy, well designed boat that could take me places quickly, and as far as I might like to, for about the same price. It was also designed to take modern electronics, rather than sticking them out on metal brackets all over the place. I bought the Bav. I've not regretted it. Would I buy another Bav at some point in the future? Probably, but my choice then would be based on the best boat for my needs and resources at the time. I doubt it would be an older classic, regardless of how nice they might be close-hauled. Hey, gentlemen never sail close anyway!

 

[jimi]

Horses for courses

I had very similar experiences, trotted around looking at Contessa's etc but SWMBO said they were all smelly & claustrophobic and the only way to take it forward was tupperware. Conclusion is that the whole family participates albeit at times alittle grudgingly but I know that if i'd got a classic I could afford, my only sailing would be singlehanded or with male friends.

Jim

 

[Mirelle]

\"only\"?

Who said anything about "only"?

Look at any clinker dinghy on the hard near you; they all have/had these little plaques. Davey and Co probably suppplied them to the trade by the gross.

I fancy you are seeing hostility where none exists.

I certainly do not view modern boats as "something nasty that's just crawled near my nose", but, conversely, I rather suspect that you may feel that about old boats.

 

[nicho]

Re: we\'re getting into a circular discussion here

Agree totally with you - I want to go boating with my wife (that's probably another no no to some of you), and she has a big say in what we buy. There is no way she would put up with for example the tens of years old Sadler 34 I recently spent several days on doing day skipper practical.. nor for that matter would I. It leaked, it felt damp, and the heads smelt like something from a Turkish backstreet in high Summer - it was simply not for me. I fully back those that like to sail those remaining "classics" with all the hard work that goes into them, but I just want to turn up and sail in something nice and new. We've always bought new and will continue to do so. Oh yes, and we also live in a new house - no doubt there will be plently of Victorian buildings around when this one finally collapses, but it is clean, fresh and maintenance free. My wife just wishes I was the same!

 

[Twister_Ken]

Hard

Hard? Them'ems don't have a hard m'dear. Them'ems 'as pontoons 'n security fences.

 

[nicho]

Re: This is going to sound like bullshit, but I\'m sincere. Honest

Chris - so it all moved around - have you been on an aircraft in turbulance? Surely a bit of movement can be a good thing. I recently came out of motor cruisers, and at 20+ kts in a bit of a sea they "move around" too. Come to think of it the cross channel ferry I was on last year shook and trembled all over the place, and that was not in a particularly big sea. Old Volvos used to have a great reputation of being built like brick outhouses, which they were - however you were far more likely to get yourself badly hurt in one of those as opposed to a more modern "flimsy" car that had crumple zones. Certainly, in power circles, any boat that is continually hammered in heavy seas will suffer hull stiffness problems eventually, no matter if it is a Sunseeker, Fairline, Princess or Sealine - maybe that also applies to sail boats. I do take on board Zefender's point - what happened to all the other old "classics" - did they eventually cry enough too?

 

[kdf]

Re: we\'re getting into a circular discussion here

Agreed - each to their own. Whenever I walk down a marina I do stop on look at these wonderful old wooden boats and admire them. When well kept they can really catch your eye - Would I ever buy one. No, I dont have the time to put into them, nor would my family tolerate one. I have a two year old Beneteau 40.7 which I cruise - I've had it in big seas and equally big winds and it never flexed or twisted and no, the furniture never moved. when you balance the sails she sails unaided in any weather and does so with speed.

Also an example of where the modern boat wins hands down - a recent trip from France to the Scilly Islands. Left Camaret about an hour after a lovely 40-ish foot long keeler (no idea what it was) and faced a 35 knot wind from the North all the way across. However we arrived in St Mary's 4 hours ahead of it and that was with my two kids on board (one 6 the other 2). We spent 5 hours less time at sea, were well rested & fed by the time the other boat arrived in. Thats where the modern design wins (apart from the obvious space a cost areas)

I agree they will never have the soul of a classic but they do have what most people want these days - a boat that is an extension of the home and comes with space for the family and their toys, are easy to maintain and are fast passage makers (kids hate long passages).

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by kdf on 19/09/2002 17:18 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Mirelle]

Two Nations

Thank you, Ken.

No wonder we don't understand each other.

 

[nicho]

Re: we\'re getting into a circular discussion here

I'm beginning to feel happier with our choice now - thanks for your comments,. I was wondering if I would have to end up apologising for my purchase on this forum!!

 

[halcyon]

Re: This is going to sound like bullshit, but I\'m sincere. Honest

Vast majority of the classic yachts are still sailing, a few have been lost at sea or storm damage, but vertually all Twisters built are still sailing, and in 30 years will still be sailing. Do not forget that the classic yachts were never built in vast numbers, 200 being large, so there is a limited market for a limited number of people.

At the same time ther were vast quantities of yachts made that were the same status as the Bav etc, that have gone to a watery grave as will vast numbers of Bavs. But some were out of all the modern yachts that will become a classic, may need more work to keep them sailing, but they are there to someone.


Brian

 

[Jeremy_W]

Re: Bravo, Ken

>>>>Anyone seen the telly ad for the new Citroen C5? The driver chuckling with pleasure at the way the car handles?

I thought the driver was laughing at the idea of naming a car after Clive Sinclair's greatest SNAFU!

 

[Steve101]

Re: Bravo, Ken

Now, now the engines come in mighty handy if your washing machine breaks down! And besides I've got two down as extras!! One in each lazerette!

 

[hlb]

Re: less soulful but...

As fast as a rocket
and beautifull too.
Just get a stink pot
and enjoy the view.

Dont bother with raggies
there all wind and puff!

So just join the stink pots.
It's alot less bother than a
Bava/forums/images/icons/smile.gif


<font color=red> No one can force me to come here-----------
----- I'm a Volunteer! /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Haydn

 

[nicho]

Re: less soulful but...

Haydn - Nice one!!

 

[oldgit]

Re:Citreon C5

Forget what the ad says it is not a balenced car and handles like a piece of S***.Nasty nasty car.Beware, drive before you buy.IMHO

Just hold tight dear it will not be so rough when we get round the corner,trust me.

 

[zefender]

Re: Hard?

of course no hard, cos it's meant to be easy.... Yep, pontoon with lights and leccie, security gates and bouncers, onsite multiplex cinema, restaurants, decent showers, massage facilities and bars. But decided lack of broadband data/tv lines to each pontoon is causing me to rethink my options!

Whether "trenchfootie" or "caravan" - we've got more in common than differences, I suspect.