A statement on behalf of the defence

[Violetta]

Bravo, Ken

I can remember, way back, our discussions about the lovely Twister, and I endorse everything you say. Alas, I have only sailed a chartered Twister (I would love to own one) but that is a boat that would make anyone understand what you are talking about here. She's beautiful - she looks right and she IS right. She gives you, every time, a surge of joy and pride in her sheer ease and capability as a seagoing sailing boat. If ever a boat would inspire love and gratitude, the Twister would do it.

Anyone seen the telly ad for the new Citroen C5? The driver chuckling with pleasure at the way the car handles? Well, that's exactly what boats like the Twister and her ilk really can do for a sailor!



<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Violetta on 19/09/2002 09:37 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[jimi]

Re: This is going to sound like bullshit, but I\'m sincere. Honest

Ken, truly agree with all you say, as I'm sure any sailor would. However some of us constraints of family, time , location,dosh etc... However I'd just like to say how I appreciate the quality of writing and how heartfelt your response is.


Jim

 

[nicho]

Re: This is going to sound like bullshit, but I\'m sincere. Honest

Thanks for the response Ken, so elequently put - (I can see from your profession where that comes from!). I know exactly where you are coming from and I cannot disagree with anything you say. Boats are objects that can stir all sorts of emotions. I guess what I am saying is that as mass production took hold, prices fell, and boats became available to a new breed of sailor, the market also changed. Companies are in business to satisfy all markets, and at present the masses it seems are more than happy with the Benjenbav product.

My response to your original posting was well worth the effort to receive your fantastic reply. This household is not totally without emotion - there follows a poem written by my wife which expresses my feelings towards a previous boat of mine called Summer Secrets, and perhaps shows why I respond when I think she is being attacked!!:

SUMMER SECRETS II

She lay on her water bed, seductive and lean,
A finer specimen he'd never seen,
I've got to have you, I want you to be mine,
We'll be together 'til the end of time.

I'll take care of you, love you, above all the rest,
For me you'll always be the best,
The moment I saw you, I knew you were for me,
We'll be together 'til the end of the sea.

Serene and elegant, curvaceous, divine,
She's classy, sparkling, like champagne wine,
Handle her gently, take your time,
Then you'll be together 'til the end of time.

She'll help you through the stormy days,
Patient, understanding in so many ways,
Treat her with kindness, with passion, with care,
Love her for always and she'll always be there.

I've really enjoyed this thread - someone has to stand up for the modern boat brigade!!

 

[zefender]

Re: less soulful but...

A sleek classic, a greyhound in all but speed
Isn't always what you need,
you may want fast, light, comfort too
cos these days there's so much else to do
My choice is not a pedigree
But a mongrel Bav is best for me.

 

[Mirelle]

A vote for you

I have amazingly little money and I certainly cannot afford the boat I've got. Still, it has been that way since I bought her 18 years ago. We live in a tiny house and drive an elderly hatchback, whose rear springs would probably be better if it had not lugged quite so many bits of boat!

I know quite a bit about Twisters and their relations, but I cannot tell average white yachts apart. Anything after the Hustler 35 and the S&S 34 and I get a bit vague. Maybe that's why they have their maker's names on?

My boat is in better nick than I will be at her age. She is unsafe in marinas, she has heavy old gear made out of massive bits of bronze, galvanised iron, ash and teak, her spars need regular varnishing and she seldom looks as smart as she should.

She has no pressure hot water, no shower, not an awful lot of headroom and the only electronic gizmo is currently u/s. The engine is 35 years old, increasingly erratic, and the new engine fund just got spent on floors and keelbolts.

She is exceptionally beautiful, and everyone who takes the helm for the first time grasps the massive ash tiller in a grip of iron, prepared to do battle with this ancient beast, then relaxes, steers with two fingers and says "Isn't she nice?"

She has the qualities of which you speak, and, for our family sailing is partly the business of sailing, partly about the boat herself, and frankly, for our children, partly about experiencing Arthur Ransome's world.

 

[Celena]

Re: This is going to sound like bullshit, but I\'m sincere. Honest

When we were looking for a replacement boat we could not find one that we both thought was suitable. In the end we went for something that I was not too sure about but she was convinced that was the boat for her. Your words have brought home to me why she chose the boat we have and why I have become to feel about her as she has from the beginning.
The boat? A Vancouver 28...

 

[jimi]

Deep emotion in our family too. Honest

Here's one my wife penned:


I must go down to the sea again
In my husband's nice new ben
Donning oilies damp and smelly
When I'd rather be in front of the telly!

Jim

 

[nicho]

Re: less soulful but...

Thanks goodness I've got SOME support for my argument!

 

[zefender]

Re: average white yachts ?

Forgive me, but your dismissal of nearly all boats less than 30 years old in just three words sounds rather snooty. I'm sure you didn't mean it - did you?

PS They have names names printed on them because there is this novel new idea called marketing and branding. Seems to work for Bavaria as well as Channel.

 

[Mirelle]

Pot and kettle

I have very seldom met anyone, aboard a boat built in the past 30 years, who has any idea of what my boat is, let alone naming her designer and builder. She has a bronze builder's plate about three inches across below the tiller.

Conversely I can usually identify the designer and sometimes the builder of another wooden boat.

We sail on the same patch of water but in parallel universes.

 

[sailbadthesinner]

Re: I thought this was rubbish

Until i sat down and thought about my dinghies of the past.

I had some lovely old wooden ones that i had some great times on. A wooden scamp, sort of oppy type that i sailed every day in the summer hols.

Then graduated to a mirror. the dog and i and my trusty seagull on the back used to sail round to the inland sea from the cwmrran straits going in with the tide and picnicing on an island then leaving when the tide was slack enought to go back. these few mile trips felt like huge adventures at that age.
These were boats that needed over wintering, the spars would be varnished and the oars etc over the easter holiday. i would lavish attention on them. the guy who got it when it finally had to go had to be interviewed before i would let him have it. they felt like friends.
#
I enjoy sailing lasers buzzs and cats which are plastic and fast but i do not have that rapport. beacause you just wash them down and they are ready to go again. I don't know about you but i certainly don't speak to them and coax them like i did my mirror

thanks for stirring up some great childhood memories.

sailbad.

Beer! Now there's a temporary solution.

 

[zefender]

Re: I\'ll take that as a yes then! NM

NM

 

[Mirelle]

No.

Naturally people take an interest in what interests them.

Modern boats interest you and old boats interest me.

Nothing snooty about it. You will recall that further up this thread Nicho said that he knew nothing of Twisters, Tylers, etc. That was what I was alluding to.

 

[Twister_Ken]

AWBs

Sigma 38
I loved her. Too big for my purposes and pocket, but she imprinted herself and I still remember the trip with joy.

Vancouver 38
Only a short sail (unfortunately) on a brand new one, but you knew immediately that she was a boat that was on your side.

Beneteau First 30.7 and 40.7
Not for me, but both of them are ideal for purpose (fun racing) and give you back more than you put in.

 

[zefender]

Re: AWBs

Agree about Sigma - despite some having had a really tough life.
Vancouver 38 - yep - but not really an average price.
Firsts 30/40.7- certainly fun.

So the 'average' has quite a large standard deviation then?

 

[Guest]

New boy on horizon ....

Soon the world of EuroYots will be turned upside down when the new boy arrives later next year.

BenJenBav will eat their hearts out when they see people can buy QUALITY at a good price AND get a boat that can cruise as well as race around the cans like a scalded cat if necessary.

At present the name of the boat is witheld for commercial reasons and I do not want to contravene the forums rules.

So watch the mags ..... look out for that sleek new boat moored just across from you ........

 

[Guest]

Ride \'em !!

The demise of the old established builders was inevitable, with the onslaught of cheaper production line methods .... Ben, Jen, Bav, Etap etc.

They answered a need for reasonable priced high volume comfortable to cruise boats. Most owners not likely to venture further than possibly cross-channel etc.
The more solidly built, more expensive boats such as Swans etc. were and are still available to those who wish to have the Rolls Royce of boats.

So who's right ...... limited production and classic lines, or the production line mass produced jobbie ?? The Auto industry went through this early in the 20th Century and it had to come to the boat world eventually.

So how does the EuroYot Co's keep prices down ? Many use Polish / East European moulders and skills at vastly lower cost. Second they often fit slightly lower spec winches / fittings than a traditional builder would, plus of course he is buying in bulk lots - not a few here and there, thirdly the actual inventory supplied is not sufficient for the average cruising couple and requires additional items ... increasing the costs.

I have nothing against the Escorts and Cortinas of the Boating world .... more of them I say, as then the yacht world is healthy and vibrant .... RYA etc. has for years tried to encourage the activity to the masses and this is one way to succeed. The Yacht Clubs and Marinas are fuller than ever, even youngsters are turning away from Video Games / Gameboys to dinghy's etc. and they are the later yacht owners ......

BUT I like to see a Swan, Hinkley, Hilyard, etc. etc gliding into harbour as well - re-assuring that the world is still about class and classics as well as the more affordables.......

 

[Mirelle]

A question for you, Nigel.

I wonder why the production builders have not shifted their business to China yet? I do know of one American line being built there, but it's quite a big boat. Of course, the Americans have a long history, going back to the wooden boat era, of yacht building in Hong Kong, then Taiwan.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: New boy on horizon ....

What is this Mystery?

Will we have to Hunter it down?

 

[Guest]

Bullshit ? No heart stirring stuff !

I have 3 boats .....

A plastic M/S in UK that I like and enjoy sailing around Solent with, but it is heavy, doesn't instill that heart felt warmth and urge to talk to it, caress it, care like the older classics ... OK shes nearly 30 yrs old ... but still a tupperware answer to caravans on water.
A pitch pine on oak racer in estonia, that needs a lot of work every winter to keep her in fine racing form, but its a labour of love that gets maoned about, I swear I'm getting rid of it, but each time I go to advertise / try to rid myself of her ... she speaks to me and my heart stops ----- still she is mine and she will probably go to the watery grave still owned by me ! 30yrs old but a classic ....
Last but not least a little w/ender in Latvia that is plastic and the simplest rigged boat I have ever seen ..... it has so little headroom that you basically crawl through it, it has twin lift-keelplates, etc. etc. The sails are like old 'snotty' hankies with holes, blotches, slipts taped up etc. etc. - but it works, keeps me happy at weekends when I cannot use any of the others etc. etc.

We love 'em and we hate 'em, we ooh and argh at various boats - but we cannot live without 'em !!

So one mans meat ... another mans poison ?????