a single handed or two handed club racer?

Birdseye

Birdseye

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Currently I have a 35ft fin keel cruiser built in the mid90s by Bowman. Its an excellent cruising boat but we are no longer cruising it. And in my dotage, I am finding maintenance on the boat quite hard work. So I am thinking of selling her and buying something a bit more modern that I could still race in club NHC events.

I emphasis NHC - I dont want to get involved in a stripped out IRC type boat, laminate sails and all.

At the same time I would like a boat that could be single handed in a race or at least two handed to get round crew issues. To my mind this means a gennaker on a sprit with furling, and maybe self tacking gib. If the boat also had a lift keel that would be great for my sailing area.

Finally, some basic accommodation to allow overnight or over weekend stays at other club regattas.

Length 30/35 ft. Cost less than 100k

Ideas?
 
birdseye said:
Currently I have a 35ft fin keel cruiser built in the mid90s by Bowman. Its an excellent cruising boat but we are no longer cruising it. And in my dotage, I am finding maintenance on the boat quite hard work. So I am thinking of selling her and buying something a bit more modern that I could still race in club NHC events.

I emphasis NHC - I dont want to get involved in a stripped out IRC type boat, laminate sails and all.

At the same time I would like a boat that could be single handed in a race or at least two handed to get round crew issues. To my mind this means a gennaker on a sprit with furling, and maybe self tacking gib. If the boat also had a lift keel that would be great for my sailing area.

Finally, some basic accommodation to allow overnight or over weekend stays at other club regattas.

Length 30/35 ft. Cost less than 100k

Ideas?
Click to expand...

I am not an expert but am an expert on what boat threads if you see what I mean.....

J109? Not a specialist shorthanded boat but plenty seem to be in sorc/rorc double handed races. Asym for ease of crew. No lift keel though. Maybe too big though....

J97. No lift keel again.

Most traditional cruiser racers like dehler etc seem to be setup for symmetrical spinnaker.

Sunfast 3200/jpk etc shorthanded but maybe too stripped out for you?

Do you want to win the races??!!

Some new fast French cruisers like pogo 30 http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2014/Pogo-30-3031389/United-Kingdom#.WFxKCMunzqA but too expensive.

I think you may have to decide what the priorities are.....



I posted a thread on this before and the consensus was that you aren't going to beat people club racing short handed because 8 people sitting on the rail allows more sail and therefore faster speeds......
 
You do no say if you want new or second hand
A SH Hanse ( not the latest IKEA jobs) are quite cheap & need not be that old
A 35 ft would be easy to sail single handed & a 31 very easy. The earlier ones were better suited to a racing setup ( as is mine)
The later ones with all the lines lead to just a pair of winches would not be so good for racing although easy for single handed cruising.
As a boat the Hanse is a quick cruiser & the 31 can hold its own against bigger boats quite well.
But if you want new then forget Hanse
 
Pretty sure you've asked this before.

The answer is a J100. Ticks every box on your list except the lifting keel.
 
Do I want to win? Every racer wants to win, but the fact that its NHC shows that I am not seriously racing like Flaming.
The drop keel comes about because without cruising any longer my sailing is likely to be the Bristol channel and with few exceptions, it dries.

I was wondering about something like a Hanse or Elan to which I could add one of those aluminium tube Selden bowsprits and carry a gennaker on a flexible furler. No going forward that way and at 70 I am not as nimble as I used to be.

Do you think that would be a feasible approach? My main doubt is that to single hand I would need a boat thatis not flighty and dinghy like and would hold its course whilst I use the winches. What are the rules about mechanical assistance ie pilots for single handers in mixed inshore fleets?
 
birdseye said:
Do I want to win? Every racer wants to win, but the fact that its NHC shows that I am not seriously racing like Flaming.
The drop keel comes about because without cruising any longer my sailing is likely to be the Bristol channel and with few exceptions, it dries.

I was wondering about something like a Hanse or Elan to which I could add one of those aluminium tube Selden bowsprits and carry a gennaker on a flexible furler. No going forward that way and at 70 I am not as nimble as I used to be.

Do you think that would be a feasible approach? My main doubt is that to single hand I would need a boat thatis not flighty and dinghy like and would hold its course whilst I use the winches. What are the rules about mechanical assistance ie pilots for single handers in mixed inshore fleets?
Click to expand...

Unless you add a ridiculously long sprit I doubt you will get away with leaving a furling gennaker up going upwind, we have experimented doing this on my boat in light winds and the furled sail just in front of the forestay changes the flow on the jib too much and you just can't get the boat going.

Autopilots aren't allowed under the RRS so the SI's have to have a clause to say that they are allowed for you to use one - as far as I am aware I have never seen this done for an inshore race, but I suppose you might persuade your club to do this.

If you want to be able to single hand and have fun I would suggest thinking about going a lot smaller. In our NHC fleet in Plymouth we now have four or five Seascape 18's that are normally sailed 2 handed (a couple of the owners are about your age) but once you've got the hang of them can be raced solo as long as it's not too windy, they have a gennaker deployment / retrieval shute like a dinghy so its all pretty easy. Fine you probably wouldn't want to sleep on one but with the money you would save just stay in a hotel when at regatta's - and because they are easy to trailer / launch you can cheaply do regatta's a bit further away eg most of the British boats go over to one of the northern France regatta's each summer.
 
Ingwe said:
Autopilots aren't allowed under the RRS so the SI's have to have a clause to say that they are allowed for you to use one - as far as I am aware I have never seen this done for an inshore race, but I suppose you might persuade your club to do this.
Click to expand...

IRC changes that rule, so if racing under IRC autopilots are allowed unless the SI's ban them. Which surprised me. No idea what NHC says though.

Completely agree that the furlers are getting good, but leaving one up all the time is not going to do you any favours. If you're really planning on racing 1 or 2 up and don't want to go forward, then I would suggest rating for just Jib and Main.

Seriously though Birdseye, for your use, just buy this.

http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2007/J-Boats-J-100-3005544/United-Kingdom#.WFz7aVOLRhE

Jib on a pole for easy down wind, reach everything from the helm, and even comes with a code zero and a gennaker.
 
Would an RM with twin keels tick the necessary boxes? Do you need a lifting keel to dry out or are you happy to dry out on twins?
 
Buy a Squib, get better level racing and use the £60k change to hire crew when needed and stay in nice hotels?
 
£77,500 ? I got less than that for our Finngulf 33, gennaker and all.

Seriously though, I can not see it being much fun single handed on inshore races, we needed two to manage our Finngulf and to have any chance of a decent start, but if we had four we were suddenly competitive up to about F5. I would recommend you forget about the single handed idea, starting you will be picked on even by the also rans, surely you could find someone useful to go with you or train one up?
 
birdseye said:
Do I want to win? Every racer wants to win, but the fact that its NHC shows that I am not seriously racing like Flaming.
The drop keel comes about because without cruising any longer my sailing is likely to be the Bristol channel and with few exceptions, it dries.

I was wondering about something like a Hanse or Elan to which I could add one of those aluminium tube Selden bowsprits and carry a gennaker on a flexible furler. No going forward that way and at 70 I am not as nimble as I used to be.

Do you think that would be a feasible approach? My main doubt is that to single hand I would need a boat thatis not flighty and dinghy like and would hold its course whilst I use the winches. What are the rules about mechanical assistance ie pilots for single handers in mixed inshore fleets?
Click to expand...

I have a Parker 275 with a lift keel amd because a lot of the ballast is in the hull it is pretty flighty. I think lift keels dont help in that respect.....

If it is nhc then maybe an rm as suggested or a django with twin keels might work. Bad ratings for irc apparently but for nhc maybe it doesn't matter.

When i was looking if you wanted older twin keel that could just about keep up then a Fulmar was about the fastest of the old twin keels.
 
Way below your price range but have you considered something as simple as a Sonata? I think there's a fleet at Brixham which is only a short hop along the coast from you if you wanted a spot of serious match racing, otherwise they seem to do quite well in mixed fleets and your only real problem will be working out what to spend all your change on........
 
Triassic said:
Way below your price range but have you considered something as simple as a Sonata? I think there's a fleet at Brixham which is only a short hop along the coast from you if you wanted a spot of serious match racing, otherwise they seem to do quite well in mixed fleets and your only real problem will be working out what to spend all your change on........
Click to expand...

I think Sonatas are a bit like the bigger Impala, hopelessly uncompetitive if sailed with no fat onboard?
But both lift and twin keel versions exist, I sailed many miles in both years ago, when the RYA had them.
 
I did some races in my Hanse crewed & single handed but stopped because I was disqualified for using my Aeries self steering when SH
In a fleet of 16 local boats i finished 2nd when crewed & ( a pre disqualified) 9th without the cruising chute, so I think I was competitive.

The boat is set up for racing single handed with the option of 26 different control lines to the cockpit. I fly the chute from the anchor roller on a flying line & do not need a pole. 95% of my sailing (2000miles PA) is S handed so the boat is easy to sail & I am now 69 years old so almost your age. I have just bought new sails to start racing again, but with a crew as I have some people who want to race.

So apart from your requirement to have a lifting keel the current price of a good 312 at circa £35K then £7K for 3 new laminate sails ( main, st jib & genny) & a couple of £K for new running rigging, £1K for a folding prop & a couple of £k for other alterations to make things easy to work, ie new jammers etc & you have a good club racer with good cruising ability.Well within your budget.

Re the earlier comment re the squib---- I have one of those as well but one would have to be a top sailor to do well in the results!!!
 
flaming said:
IRC changes that rule, so if racing under IRC autopilots are allowed unless the SI's ban them. Which surprised me. No idea what NHC says though.

Completely agree that the furlers are getting good, but leaving one up all the time is not going to do you any favours. If you're really planning on racing 1 or 2 up and don't want to go forward, then I would suggest rating for just Jib and Main.

Seriously though Birdseye, for your use, just buy this.

http://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/2007/J-Boats-J-100-3005544/United-Kingdom#.WFz7aVOLRhE

Jib on a pole for easy down wind, reach everything from the helm, and even comes with a code zero and a gennaker.
Click to expand...

Yes, IRC allows pilots but NHC doesnt - as standard.

What do you know about the J95?
 
I know I'm going to be somewhat biased on this but have you considered a multihull, specifically something like an F27? The one thing they don't do that well is extended cruising (a bit cramped, lack of load carrying capability and the need to sail her pretty much the whole time) but that seems very low on your list of priorities. She does sleep three easily (in proper bunks, not cots) and has a head, cooker and plumbing. As far as the sailing is concerned you would have to spend considerably more to get a monohull that comes anywhere close with regard to performance, and they're designed to be kept on a trailer which means no antifouling and minimal maintenance (I wash it down with the hose when I get home and maybe polish the hulls once a year....). The downside of multihulls is the availability of suitable racing circuits however being so mobile means you have the whole country open to you. I live just outside Dover but race on the East coast (one hour away), the Solent (three hours) or Plymouth (six hours). If you are feeling a little more adventurous take it down to the Adriatic like I did last summer (two days each way) and have a month of absolutely brilliant sailing in flat waters around Croatia...... Oh and I do 90% of my cruising single handed, and usually only race with one crew.

Which box doesn't it tick...?
 
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