A disaster

[Star-Lord]

Hi all a little advice is needed please, as I am new to sailing with some experience I would like to know from the more experienced what went wrong today.
We were asked to leave Grimsby Marine due to them having some dredging doing and were given a week to get our Colvic 28.6 to another mooring. We decided to leave today Thursday 6th October as the weather was due to be fine with a fresh breeze of some 18 to Knots.
We left the marina at around 12.30 and headed for the fish dock lock. By this time the winds was showing 25 Knots by the time we got into the lock we had the wind directly from the stern at some 32knts. The lock keeper threw my wife a line at the bow she grabbed it and made it fast however the wind was blowing through the lock with such a force that it blew the stern away from the lock wall and into the center, I reversed and brought the stern close to the wall but she would not stay there it just got blown out and we ended up side on to the lock gates with the lockkeeper just looking down saying what are we doing. With all the forward and reversing the throttle control on the boat locked in reverse and I had to cut the engine. We called the lockkeeper for a Tow back to our moorings.

My question is it normal to have only one line thrown down to the boat when going tying up in a lock, and thrown to bow rather than the stern when a wind of 32Knots was blowing directly from that direction?

If the lock gates had been closed the wind would have stopped and we would have been able to get the boat straight. The Lockkeeper just stood there looking down at us

With the throttle linkage jammed we called for TOW The Berth master arrived and threw us a rope I came out of the Pilothouse to ensure the rope was tied correctly as my wife is new to this and no soon had I tied the rope the berthing master opened up not looking at us but straight ahead and pulled us directly into the lock wall causing the anchor mount and all the wood on the bow starboard site to be shattered, we all screamed at him and he replied is no one at the helm.

What can I say I did not have time to get to the helm and even if I did it would have made no difference with the speed he pulled us and us having no power. Swing the wheel would have done nothing in the 2 meters we were projected in the wall.

A disastrous day. I would like to know what went wrong should we have been in the lock with winds that high.
How could we stop the stern from blowing into the center of the lock?
Any thoughts and or advice would be much appreciated

Very simply what went wrong is the Skipper chose to leave the safety of the berth in conditions not suited to the crew / boat. A marina can never force you to leave if you say the conditions are not safe. You must stand your ground. A lesson learned. When to set off is probably the most important decision a Skipper makes imho. Setting off because crew need to catch airplanes or the ‘rally’ are leaving on a predetermined date made months in advance is always a recipie for disaster.

 

[WoodyP]

I found the Grimsby lock to be tricky when I was single handing and the lock keepers not helpful. The leisure sailors always come second because it's a commercially important dock. Going out with the sea anglers we were always crammed in as a job lot, but then we would never go out in those conditions. My best advice would be wait for free flow then give it a bit of time to settle as there can be a strong current through the lock.
I'm sure you feel awful about it and you have my sympathy.

 

[Wansworth]

As long as you didn’t shout at your wife ?

 

[johnalison]

If using just one line, plus engine and rudder, to hold a boat parallel with a wall, it will only work satisfactorily if attached to a cleat or other strong point amidships. The boat will then pivot about its widest part, which is attached to the wall, with the engine and rudder pushing the stern in and hence the bow will swing out. This will work better on older designs of yacht, where the widest part is amidships, but is a little more difficult on modern "wedge-shaped" designs where more engine revs are required, or the line should be attached a little further aft. The only way I can logically see it working with a line secured at the bow is with a long straight type of hull, such as a narrowboat. Speaking of which; last night I saw on tv the spectacle of Gyles Brandreth running along a dock, hanging onto the bowline of a narrowboat, instead of securing it to a cleat?

In calm conditions, a line from the bow might allow the boat to lie alongside with the engine pushing ahead and the rudder hard over, but with wind from astern this won’t happen. I don’t know the geometry of the Grimsby lock, but depending on the height of the attachment points, it might be better to fix the boat from its stern first, let the boat go forwards until it has settled, and then make fast the bow. I can’t imagine going through a lock with only one line ashore but maybe they do things differently up there.

 

[sailaboutvic]

@Norv. First expect if you post here there always going to be some who want to cut you off at the knees .
These are the ones that never do anything wrong , experts in every thing .
We spend the last six months going through hundreds of locks and I can assure you not every lockeep know what he doing when it come to helping out with boats , they probably good at opening and shutting locks .
I think with an inexperienced crew you been much better off waiting till the wind was more manageable.
I think you have a lucky escape, it sound to me that if you manage to get out to open sea you may found it was a bit more then bargain for.
Chalk it up to experience.

 

[ean_p]

@Norv.

I think you have a lucky escape, it sound to me that if you manage to get out to open sea you may found it was a bit more then bargain for.

I think your dead right Vic

 

[Wansworth]

I think your dead right Vic

Certainly the Humber and the coast is not a nice sailing area like the Solent,but it has is meloncoly grey skies and nice coloured smoke from immingham

 

[Momac]

You can say that again. I heard a yacht calling repeatedly to the lock keeper & he just ignored him. On my first visit, he made the other yacht yacht & myself wait an 90 mins to go through, when there was ample water. He just kept leaving the gates open & letting wind farm boats in even though he could have let us go through in the intervals between the windfarm boats arrivals.
Seemed to deliberately leave us circling outside.
The last time I came out on freeflow to avoid having to deal with the lock keepers. I just ignored the signals & went through when I was ready. I called on VHF said what I was doing & did not wait for a reply. Have not been back since. Next time I will go to Hull.

I have visited Grimsby a few times and can't say I have been ignored by the lock keeper .
The fish dock lock island always gives priority to commercial craft . The only exception being when you are authorised to proceed they will ask a commercial craft to wait.
We had to wait half an hour or so when we arrived on free flow in June. But that was no surprise when we could see all of the commercial boats waiting. A very large ship was on the move so that had priority overall.
I would not dare proceed without being authorised as that might not end well.

If you go to Hull do call on ch80 with plenty of notice of your arrival as the lock keeper seems rarely in-situ even when they know boats are expected.Similarly when departing from Hull give them half a hours notice of your intentions.

 

[Daydream believer]

Certainly the Humber and the coast is not a nice sailing area like the Solent,but it has is meloncoly grey skies and nice coloured smoke from immingham

In spite of what they say about the Thames estuary, I found the Humber to be hardest bit to navigate on my round UK trips ( Via Cally canal & CIs) . Perhaps the Thames is easier for me, as it is my sailing area. However, the Humber at night is not easy. (no chart plotter) One night I found Humber VTS very helpful, in advising a ship of my presence as it approached me from behind. So there are plusses.

 

[RJJ]

@Norv. First expect if you post here there always going to be some who want to cut you off at the knees .
These are the ones that never do anything wrong , experts in every thing .
We spend the last six months going through hundreds of locks and I can assure you not every lockeep know what he doing when it come to helping out with boats , they probably good at opening and shutting locks .

Here speaks the voice of reason. A newcomer to sailing and the forum has had a tough experience and comes on here quite rightly looking for some black box thinking. And some earlier responses were, in my opinion, personally rather than objectively critical. I am sorry for that. It's true that much of what went wrong is your responsibility but it's also true that you were poorly supported by someone you took for a professional.

I don't know Grimsby. But my experience of lockkeeper and marina hands is "varied" and I have concluded you should not trust either their skill, knowledge of your type of craft, or their alignment of interests with yours. Yes they have a job to do and you are both a customer and an inconvenience.

So picking this apart:

1. You checked the weather and it seemed OK to you. But as you approached the lock the wind had picked up, significantly. That would have been the time mentally to rehearse the manoeuvre, talk it through, explain to the lockkeeper on VHF you are beginners. It sounds to me (part-guess) that you were in a short-lived gust and you might reasonably have done a lap of the harbour for five minutes and let it pass.

2. As others have said, the decision is yours. You could have returned to your mooring and told the guys it wasn't safe for you (given the conditions and experience of crew). If I understood correctly they hadn't given you much notice, and as a novice I appreciate you may have felt pressured. Part of being experienced is knowing when to stand your ground and care less if they think you are awkward. (We recently arrived in the Caribbean at 4am, after 3 weeks at sea and no sleep as we rounded the coast of Grenada, and enjoyed a very long and alcoholic breakfast on the quarantine dock. Come 9am we had done our paperwork and the dock lads tried forcefully to order me to move to our actual berth, fortunately I had an "engine problem" that I fixed by spending six hours asleep and sobering up).

3. You needed the line thrown to your stern. A centre cleat could be fine but would require more precise line and throttle handling; a long centre line if you were two feet from the wall at speed could still pull the bows in; a stern line would reliably pull you in gently, reliably and parallel in the conditions you describe. I would have had the Mrs on the stern and told the lockkeeper I wanted a stern line first. I would have the Mrs understand the effect of a bow line, travelling forward with wind astern, so that if anyone tried to chuck her a bow line she would ignore it until stern secure. I would also tell myself and all crew to ignore all noise from hands ashore unless it is consistent with my plan.

4. You are responsible for your throttle jamming.


It may be worth considering getting someone experienced to accompany you once or twice and particularly if it's a bit brisk. Could be an instructor....or a friend, or one of us on here (we don't all bite) or someone from the class association, or the previous owner?

And as sailaboutvic says....don't be fooled by the dragons on here, we all have had our moments. The big lessons aren't the specific "what should I have done" but the macro "how could I have set myself up / thought about this differently taking into account the skills/experience on board". Which includes, sometimes, not doing it at all, or doing it more slowly, or doing it with a practice run like a novice golfer, or over-communicating with shore operators, or ignoring them.

 

[Poey50]

Hi all a little advice is needed please, as I am new to sailing with some experience I would like to know from the more experienced what went wrong today.
We were asked to leave Grimsby Marine due to them having some dredging doing and were given a week to get our Colvic 28.6 to another mooring. We decided to leave today Thursday 6th October as the weather was due to be fine with a fresh breeze of some 18 to Knots.
We left the marina at around 12.30 and headed for the fish dock lock. By this time the winds was showing 25 Knots by the time we got into the lock we had the wind directly from the stern at some 32knts. The lock keeper threw my wife a line at the bow she grabbed it and made it fast however the wind was blowing through the lock with such a force that it blew the stern away from the lock wall and into the center, I reversed and brought the stern close to the wall but she would not stay there it just got blown out and we ended up side on to the lock gates with the lockkeeper just looking down saying what are we doing. With all the forward and reversing the throttle control on the boat locked in reverse and I had to cut the engine. We called the lockkeeper for a Tow back to our moorings.

My question is it normal to have only one line thrown down to the boat when going tying up in a lock, and thrown to bow rather than the stern when a wind of 32Knots was blowing directly from that direction?

If the lock gates had been closed the wind would have stopped and we would have been able to get the boat straight. The Lockkeeper just stood there looking down at us

With the throttle linkage jammed we called for TOW The Berth master arrived and threw us a rope I came out of the Pilothouse to ensure the rope was tied correctly as my wife is new to this and no soon had I tied the rope the berthing master opened up not looking at us but straight ahead and pulled us directly into the lock wall causing the anchor mount and all the wood on the bow starboard site to be shattered, we all screamed at him and he replied is no one at the helm.

What can I say I did not have time to get to the helm and even if I did it would have made no difference with the speed he pulled us and us having no power. Swing the wheel would have done nothing in the 2 meters we were projected in the wall.

A disastrous day. I would like to know what went wrong should we have been in the lock with winds that high.
How could we stop the stern from blowing into the center of the lock?
Any thoughts and or advice would be much appreciated

From your account the lock keeper was an arse. You were unlucky with him, the fact that the wind increased from 18 to 32 knots after you set off, and the locked-up throttle cable. With those factors you seem to have done your best. It might feel like a disaster but it was just a bad day at the office.

 

[KevinV]

My biggest mistakes have been when I have been working to another timetable than the boat's, be it closing time, flights to catch or whatever. It causes stress, affects your decision-making, makes you rush into things and take risks you otherwise wouldn't. Lesson learned, although it gets refreshed from time to time.

 

[RJJ]

, the fact that the wind increased from 18 to 32 knots after you set off

It's worth noting that 32 vs 18 knots is nearly double the wind but for various reasons about 8x the aggro.

1. Something to do with the velocity of the wind squared is the force it can exert.
2. As wind strengthens its full force is more likely to get down to surface level
3. The relative strength of the wind force to your engine and driving capability is more than doubly unfavourable.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

It's worth noting that 32 vs 18 knots is nearly double the wind but for various reasons about 8x the aggro.

1. Something to do with the velocity of the wind squared is the force it can exert.
2. As wind strengthens its full force is more likely to get down to surface level
3. The relative strength of the wind force to your engine and driving capability is more than doubly unfavourable.

Yes, it's at least the square of the velocity. Twice the windspeed is four times the force - and that's not taking turbulent flow effects into consideration.

 

[Daydream believer]

Yes, it's at least the square of the velocity. Twice the windspeed is four times the force - and that's not taking turbulent flow effects into consideration.

You forgot to deduct 50% for exageration factor, to be applied during times of panic, or sometimes, due to alchoholic beverage, consumed in club bar ?

 

[oldbloke]

The winds inside Grimsby Dock are not to be trifled with. In the 60s and 70s sailing in the Dock produced Britain's best sailors, the likes of Mike Mcnamara, Mike Rimmer, Mike Holmes,Bill Bacon and others. Sailing there and being soundly schooled by even their B team was a humbling experience. And that was before Saturday night on the town where even holding your pint like "a poof" was a dangerous pastime.
Good Times and a long time ago

 

[RunAgroundHard]

... holding your pint like "a poof" ...

Zac Goldman style.

'He can't hold his drink': Zac Goldsmith caught out for holding his pint glass incorrectly

 

[Sandy]

A disaster

It's not 'Strictly Come Dancing' and we don't do a Craig Revel Horwood. We work in a complex four dimensional environment : jaw, pitch, roll and time, at the mercy off two elements, wind and tide, relax crack open a <insert favorite tipple> and look back at it as a school day.

 

[Daydream believer]

The winds inside Grimsby Dock are not to be trifled with. In the 60s and 70s sailing in the Dock produced Britain's best sailors, the likes of Mike Mcnamara, Mike Rimmer, Mike Holmes,Bill Bacon

I have never heard of any of those guys. Who are they? Some guys with an old boat, who bought you a pint down the pub?

 

[oldbloke]

Zac Goldman style.

'He can't hold his drink': Zac Goldsmith caught out for holding his pint glass incorrectly

Not as egregious as that. I suspect I was holding the handle.