A disaster

[Norv]

Hi all a little advice is needed please, as I am new to sailing with some experience I would like to know from the more experienced what went wrong today.
We were asked to leave Grimsby Marine due to them having some dredging doing and were given a week to get our Colvic 28.6 to another mooring. We decided to leave today Thursday 6th October as the weather was due to be fine with a fresh breeze of some 18 to Knots.
We left the marina at around 12.30 and headed for the fish dock lock. By this time the winds was showing 25 Knots by the time we got into the lock we had the wind directly from the stern at some 32knts. The lock keeper threw my wife a line at the bow she grabbed it and made it fast however the wind was blowing through the lock with such a force that it blew the stern away from the lock wall and into the center, I reversed and brought the stern close to the wall but she would not stay there it just got blown out and we ended up side on to the lock gates with the lockkeeper just looking down saying what are we doing. With all the forward and reversing the throttle control on the boat locked in reverse and I had to cut the engine. We called the lockkeeper for a Tow back to our moorings.

My question is it normal to have only one line thrown down to the boat when going tying up in a lock, and thrown to bow rather than the stern when a wind of 32Knots was blowing directly from that direction?

If the lock gates had been closed the wind would have stopped and we would have been able to get the boat straight. The Lockkeeper just stood there looking down at us

With the throttle linkage jammed we called for TOW The Berth master arrived and threw us a rope I came out of the Pilothouse to ensure the rope was tied correctly as my wife is new to this and no soon had I tied the rope the berthing master opened up not looking at us but straight ahead and pulled us directly into the lock wall causing the anchor mount and all the wood on the bow starboard site to be shattered, we all screamed at him and he replied is no one at the helm.

What can I say I did not have time to get to the helm and even if I did it would have made no difference with the speed he pulled us and us having no power. Swing the wheel would have done nothing in the 2 meters we were projected in the wall.

A disastrous day. I would like to know what went wrong should we have been in the lock with winds that high.
How could we stop the stern from blowing into the center of the lock?
Any thoughts and or advice would be much appreciated

 

[AntarcticPilot]

The wind was far too high for safe manoeuvring by an inexperienced and short-handed crew, especially where one crew member needs to be at the helm in a closed wheelhouse. A strong, experienced crew might have managed, but even then it would have been difficult. I have many years of experience, and I would have thought very hard before setting off in those conditions.

 

[Just_sayin']

"My question is it normal to have only one line thrown down to the boat when going tying up in a lock, and thrown to bow rather than the stern when a wind of 32Knots was blowing directly from that direction?"

Yes, it is perfectly adequate to have just one line thrown … how many hands do you think the keeper has?

No, it’s not normal to throw it to the leeward end of the boat.

I‘ve never been in a lock where the keeper didn’t understand the effect of the wind on a boat.

Where was your wife standing when you entered the lock with the wind behind you?

I‘m guessing not at the stern where you should have briefed her to be. Otherwise how could he have thrown the line to her at the bow?

Sorry, it sounds 100% like skipper error to me unless by some chance the keeper was standing right at the leeward end of the lock forcing you to motor up to the gate and your wife to scramble forward.

A position you would surely have noticed before you entered the lock and made at least an attempt to reverse away.

 

[roaringgirl]

Before parking anywhere, I always try to figure out which way the tide/wind is going to push the boat. I instruct my crew which line to put where. With the wind behind you, the first line on would be from the midships cleat to somewhere astern of the boat on the dock. I would then keep the boat in fwd gear and use the rudder to push the stern into the dockside. You can play with the rudder and throttle so that the boat will just sit there, then you can wander around and add other lines at your leisure.

 

[fredrussell]

30 knot wind would have a few of us struggling I reckon. Put in down to experience. If the wind is from astern and you make the bow fast first it’s almost inevitable that she’ll swing around. Do you have centre cleats? They’re a godsend really, especially short or single-handed.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I think many of us would have struggled under the circumstances, and the best decision would have been "Wait until the wind moderates". I certainly wouldn't have tried it single-handed or with a weak and inexperienced crew, except under extreme pressure to leave. In any case, the conditions outside the harbour with such a wind would have been very unpleasant, to say the least, and that is a region of strong tides.

Incidentally, 18 knots is still a pretty strong breeze; I'd have set off with that forecast - but not if the actual conditions were very much worse than that. My usual threshold for leaving sheltered water is 20-25 knots, and that's in a fairly handy sailing boat.

@Norv , don't take this to heart. You got off lightly - only the boat was damaged, not people, and you have learnt a valuable lesson which is that when boating, you're dealing with forces far greater than any we can exert. Under the circumstances, even an experienced boat handler might have come off second-best, and a subsidiary lesson is that discretion is the better part of valour! I think that the lock-keeper probably thought that anyone trying to enter the lock under those circumstances would be experienced and capable. It is unfortunate that you felt compelled to leave; again, a further lesson is that wind and weather make their own rules, and anyone involved in maritime enterprises - such as the dock owners - have to adapt to that.

 

[oldgit]

I think many of us would have struggled under the circumstances, and the best decision would have been "Wait until the wind moderates". I certainly wouldn't have tried it single-handed or with a weak and inexperienced crew, except under extreme pressure to leave. In any case, the conditions outside the harbour with such a wind would have been very unpleasant, to say the least, and that is a region of strong tides.

+1.

We all have to learn some very hard lessons regards boats and boating, some of us having sometimes made bad judgments multiple times before eventually wising up.
As skipper of a boat you are completely in charge, totally responsible for both vessel and crew and no one else.
Perhaps this is part of the mystifying attraction of both spending small fortunes and risking life and limb on this hobby.
Unlike driving a car , if anything goes wrong, there really is nobody else to lay the blame on.
Just get on with it, there will probably be a few more incidents lying in wait.
Most of us just deal with them and keep going, grateful that we are able to both afford and be fit enough to go boating.
The first tiny scratch on any new boat is mortifying , the later, rather impressive ones after that , less so ?
Just to add, when you get it right ,nobody will notice,get it wrong and half the marina will be watching.

It is quite possible the lock staff were doing their best to assist,assuming the boat skipper knows what they are doing are in charge of the situation.
In my experience lock staff will always defer to the skipper.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Years ago I had a very similar experience (different area), except the force was from sluice opening. I entered the lock, with a full crew, and the lock keeper took the lines, fastened the stern line, walked away and opened the sluice at the bow. The boat spun round damaging the bow and stern. We contacted the lock owner and claimed negligence by their operator and were successful in having the repair bill settled by them.

In my view, the lock keepers are responsible for the safe operation of the lock and if what you have said is what happened, then they failed to do this. If the lock and harbour tow is operated by the same company, then proceed to raise the matter with them and explain why you think they caused an issue, that could have been reasonably controlled by them. They will of course blame you for it all, so be careful in how you word the complaint. Let your insurance company know.

 

[johnalison]

I’m afraid that I agree with #3 that it is basically the skipper’s responsibility to think things out before approaching. I have tied up with 30+ knots from astern in a sailing boat both in locks and marinas and not got into difficulties. The trick, if there is one, is to ensure that everything happens slowly and under your control. Detach your mind from the noise around you and just think in terms of the mechanics of the situation.

 

[Norv]

"My question is it normal to have only one line thrown down to the boat when going tying up in a lock, and thrown to bow rather than the stern when a wind of 32Knots was blowing directly from that direction?"

Yes, it is perfectly adequate to have just one line thrown … how many hands do you think the keeper has?

No, it’s not normal to throw it to the leeward end of the boat.

I‘ve never been in a lock where the keeper didn’t understand the effect of the wind on a boat.

Where was your wife standing when you entered the lock with the wind behind you?

I‘m guessing not at the stern where you should have briefed her to be. Otherwise how could he have thrown the line to her at the bow?

Sorry, it sounds 100% like skipper error to me unless by some chance the keeper was standing right at the leeward end of the lock forcing you to motor up to the gate and your wife to scramble forward.

A position you would surely have noticed before you entered the lock and made at least an attempt to reverse away.

The lockkeeper was standing on the leeward side the nearest the closed gate my wife was standing in the center of the boat. So from what you are saying it is quite ok for the keeper to throw the line to the front of the boat in a 33knt wind howling through the lack and then stand watching us run around trying to get the stern up against the wall offering no assistance. It was just not possible for my wife to pull the boat against the wind. In my estimation, the gates should have been closed to stop the wind and we should have been advised by both the Berthmaster and keeper to delay the passage.

 

[Norv]

Before parking anywhere, I always try to figure out which way the tide/wind is going to push the boat. I instruct my crew which line to put where. With the wind behind you, the first line on would be from the midships cleat to somewhere astern of the boat on the dock. I would then keep the boat in fwd gear and use the rudder to push the stern into the dockside. You can play with the rudder and throttle so that the boat will just sit there, then you can wander around and add other lines at your leisure.

Cheers for the advice yes that is what I was doing without a problem the boat was secure at the bow and I used the engine and rudder to get the stern in but suddenly had the throttle gear change jam in reverse I had to cut the engine and we were blown up to the lock gates.

 

[Norv]

I think many of us would have struggled under the circumstances, and the best decision would have been "Wait until the wind moderates". I certainly wouldn't have tried it single-handed or with a weak and inexperienced crew, except under extreme pressure to leave. In any case, the conditions outside the harbour with such a wind would have been very unpleasant, to say the least, and that is a region of strong tides.

Incidentally, 18 knots is still a pretty strong breeze; I'd have set off with that forecast - but not if the actual conditions were very much worse than that. My usual threshold for leaving sheltered water is 20-25 knots, and that's in a fairly handy sailing boat.

@Norv , don't take this to heart. You got off lightly - only the boat was damaged, not people, and you have learnt a valuable lesson which is that when boating, you're dealing with forces far greater than any we can exert. Under the circumstances, even an experienced boat handler might have come off second-best, and a subsidiary lesson is that discretion is the better part of valour! I think that the lock-keeper probably thought that anyone trying to enter the lock under those circumstances would be experienced and capable. It is unfortunate that you felt compelled to leave; again, a further lesson is that wind and weather make their own rules, and anyone involved in maritime enterprises - such as the dock owners - have to adapt to that.

Thank you Sir you are 100% correct, yes we were under pressure to leave as we had enquired to stay for the next 6 months rather than change Marinas.

 

[Neeves]

Norv

I feel for you and particularly your wife - who cannot have been impressed with her day out (and might take a long time to recover her sense of equilibrium).

I'd contact your insurance company and put your case to them and if they think they can recover your costs through the insurers for the 'marine facility' - I am sure they will (though you might never know). This is why you have insurance - to cover the costs of mishaps. We all make mistakes, including staff at marine facilities - though they might not want to admit their errors - for a whole variety of reasons. The lesson you learnt is - don't rely on other people (which in your case also means your wife). Longer term your wife will become more adept - short term - if something needs done - you need to do it. Assume others are not fully competent and always have a fall back - fenders in the situation you describe.

In the situation you describe you should simply have refused to move your yacht under the then weather conditions - you are the skipper, you and only you are responsible.

You cannot undo what has been done, don't dwell on what you think might be the unfairness of life - move on (and choose the weather with care next time you have your wife on board).

Good Luck

Jonathan

 

[Norv]

"My question is it normal to have only one line thrown down to the boat when going tying up in a lock, and thrown to bow rather than the stern when a wind of 32Knots was blowing directly from that direction?"

Yes, it is perfectly adequate to have just one line thrown … how many hands do you think the keeper has?

No, it’s not normal to throw it to the leeward end of the boat.

I‘ve never been in a lock where the keeper didn’t understand the effect of the wind on a boat.

Where was your wife standing when you entered the lock with the wind behind you?

I‘m guessing not at the stern where you should have briefed her to be. Otherwise how could he have thrown the line to her at the bow?

Sorry, it sounds 100% like skipper error to me unless by some chance the keeper was standing right at the leeward end of the lock forcing you to motor up to the gate and your wife to scramble forward.

A position you would surely have noticed before you entered the lock and made at least an attempt to reverse away.

Ok well if the Throttle had not jammed with the bow fast I could have used the engine and rudder to secure the bow. That was the first instance and what of the tow before we even secure the line we were thrown into the lock wall before I could get to the helm and as said It would have been of no use even at full lock. What is your take on that skipper error as well? You see in my experience and I have loads of towing vehicles off of mountains in Africa one waits till the towed vehicle is A secured B the driver is aware that the towing will begin and C the line is made taught slowly before pulling. Not full speed ahead and whipping the tow line like the crack of a whip.

 

[Just_sayin']

The lockkeeper was standing on the leeward side the nearest the closed gate my wife was standing in the center of the boat. So from what you are saying it is quite ok for the keeper to throw the line to the front of the boat

Selective reading. No I’m not.

No matter where your wife was standing it would be impossible for her to assist in stopping the boat using the proffered line given the details you have now supplied.

You’ve chosen to ignore:

‘A position you would surely have noticed before you entered the lock and made at least an attempt to reverse away’

Yes, I’m very surprised the keeper stood where you said he did but the onus is on you to enter when it’s safe to do so.

But hold on … you’ve posted whilst I was replying … now you say in #11 that the boat was secure at the bow … yet you criticised him for throwing the line at the front of the boat.

 

[Norv]

Norv

I feel for you and particularly your wife - who cannot have been impressed with her day out (and might take a long time to recover her sense of equilibrium).

I'd contact your insurance company and put your case to them and if they think they can recover your costs through the insurers for the 'marine facility' - I am sure they will (though you might never know). This is why you have insurance - to cover the costs of mishaps. We all make mistakes, including staff at marine facilities - though they might not want to admit their errors - for a whole variety of reasons. The lesson you learnt is - don't rely on other people (which in your case also means your wife). Longer term your wife will become more adept - short term - if something needs done - you need to do it. Assume others are not fully competent and always have a fall back - fenders in the situation you describe.

In the situation you describe you should simply have refused to move your yacht under the then weather conditions - you are the skipper, you and only you are responsible.

You cannot undo what has been done, don't dwell on what you think might be the unfairness of life - move on (and choose the weather with care next time you have your wife on board).

Good Luck

Jonathan

Thank you kindly yes lesson learned, the wife did not take it well. Cheers and God Bless

 

[Norv]

Selective reading. No I’m not.

No matter where your wife was standing it would be impossible for her to assist in stopping the boat using the proffered line given the details you have now supplied.

You’ve chosen to ignore:

‘A position you would surely have noticed before you entered the lock and made at least an attempt to reverse away’

Yes, I’m very surprised the keeper stood where you said he did but the onus is on you to enter when it’s safe to do so.

But hold on … you’ve posted whilst I was replying … now you say in #11 that the boat was secure at the bow … yet you criticised him for throwing the line at the front of the boat.

I respect all opinions and advice thank you and will take the responsibility for my actions. Yes, the boat was secured at the Bow with the single rope thrown it was the stern that got blown across the lock. I used the rudder and engine to get it back against the wall once but having no rope and my wife not wanting to let go at the front we blew out again that is when the throttle jammed up and I could do noting but turn the engine off and was at the mercy of the wind. As to criticising the lockkeeper well, I would have thought in that situation another line would have helped at the rear or by closing the gate. Now he has more experience than I do so I have to stand responsible for the miss hap lesson learned but the damage was not done then at all, my wife handled it well considering we were dead in the water. The damage came from the tow as said once we had the rope no time was given to secure it correctly just off at speed into the lock wall almost taking my fingers off. Not waiting for me to give the OK. Thanks for your comments

 

[Jonny A]

Sorry to hear you got into trouble. My advice: unless you personally know them, never ever assume anyone stood on the dock knows what to do better than you do. Just one of those hard lessons we all have to learn.

Also, always make a plan in your head for how to quickly secure the boat given the prevailing combination of wind and tide. If in doubt, get a single line secured from amidships but also have bow and stern lines ready to go.

 

[Stemar]

Just one thing to add:

It wasn't a disaster, just an incident. No one got hurt and the boat's still afloat, if with some cosmetic damage.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Just one thing to add:

It wasn't a disaster, just an incident. No one got hurt and the boat's still afloat, if with some cosmetic damage.

Surely that is a personal opinion of the OP, and entirely relevant to how the OP feels about it, I would have thought.

disaster | dɪˈzɑːstə | noun a sudden accident or a natural catastrophe that causes great damage or loss of life: 159 people died in the disaster | [mass noun] : disaster struck within minutes of take-off. • [as modifier] denoting a genre of films that use natural or accidental catastrophe as the mainspring of plot and setting: a disaster movie. • an event or fact that has unfortunate consequences: a string of personal disasters | [mass noun] : reduced legal aid could spell financial disaster. • informal a person or thing that is a complete failure: lunch had turned out to be a total disaster.