A different EU v UK question on boat place

[Portofino]

We (Brits) can only spend 90/180 days in any EU country, and the clock keeps ticking and accumulating even if we move from country to country in the EU, and if we want to stay longer than 90 days in the eu we have to apply for a visa valid for a specific country and meet fairly onerous conditions, the visa is only valid in the country it was applied for and not valid against any other country in the EU.

Other EU residents can go to one country in the EU,stay for 90 days, then move to another stay for 90 days ad infinitum. If they want to stay in one country longer then they *may* have to regsiter with the host country and Doing so may have some conditions attached, but these conditions are almost certainly less onerous than getting a visa (but obviously will vary from country to country)

To argue that these two scenarios are effectively the same is stretching things a bit.

Not saying they are the same just saying EU citizens have 90 in 180 rules intra state .Always had .We had it prebexit .
Nothing changed on that score .

The conditions vary now and are subject to change . The different names , tilted banded around and this “ May “ word does not change the fact of the 90 in 180 rule eu to eu .

 

[Portofino]

Nobody is arguing they are the same, well I'm not, and although porto's post allowed that to be assumed I dont think he is either.

This ^ .Thx btw .
Good look with your own deliberations i hope you can successfully navigate this .Sounds like you know your onions .

Anyone suggest a moisturiser cream because I feel I have developed skin like this chap on this forum

 

[st599]

Nobody is arguing they are the same, well I'm not, and although porto's post allowed that to be assumed I dont think he is either.

Then why does he keep repeating 90 in 180, being allowed in to the EU for 90 days in any 180 day window is not applicable to EU citizens.

Not saying they are the same just saying EU citizens have 90 in 180 rules intra state .

No they don't. They have a requirement to register after 90 days. There is no 180 day window. Nor is there a limit on what they can do in the state they are residing in. That's completely different to the 3rd country limits on time in the EU and work that can be undertaken.

 

[st599]

EUR-Lex - l33152 - EN - EUR-Lex

What do you make of this underlined in red taken from the above .
It contradicts what you are saying ?
Sorry for the wiggly line my boats not got stabs

Sorry, but that backs up what I'm saying. There is a requirement to register as an EU citizen. There is no 90 in 180 rule for an EU citizen.

 

[Poignard]

The fact that threads like this exist at all shows that our access to the EU has changed, and for the worse.

With absolutely no compensating benefits.

People are having to familiarise themselves with regulations that previously did not concern them.

 

[jfm]

Just checked in on this thread. Can't believe the quantity of repeatedly incorrect information written on here by Portofino, now with some support from Billskip.

I can't believe how they misleadingly conflate:

(a) a hugely important and fundamental absolute right of people to remain in a country of their choosing, with​

​

(b) the triviality that is the mere option given to EU countries, if they so choose, and most haven't, to require that unemployed people staying for more than 3 months should merely fill in an administrative form and show means, with the penalty for non compliance being mandated by EU law (Article 8(2) of Directive 2004/38/EC) to be tiny.​

Beggars belief. Hopefully future readers of this/those who find it on Google can sort wheat from chaff

 

[Hurricane]

I can't see what Porto is saying because I have him on ignore. For this very reason.
Isn't it about time that the moderators did something about him. He is obviously trolling and why is it always him.

 

[Portofino]

Sorry, but that backs up what I'm saying. There is a requirement to register as an EU citizen. There is no 90 in 180 rule for an EU citizen

But you inferred they did not need to visit officialdom after 90 days .





Its a slippery slope ( each state has slightly diff rules ) what’s meant by “made known “to registration” to full blown citizenship.None of this is trivia suggested the first stage by JFM .Why court fines ?

But EU can’t stay Willy nilly .They have rules too .

 

[Poignard]

I can't see what Porto is saying because I have him on ignore. For this very reason.
Isn't it about time that the moderators did something about him. He is obviously trolling and why is it always him.

I don't think he's trolling.

I think he really believes what he writes. Which is more alarming!

 

[Tranona]

Are you suggesting the attachment in Porto's post is incorrect?

No I am objecting to him continually conflating Schengen rules for third country nationals. There is no 90/180 for EU citizens and never has been. The 90 day before registration bit has always been there but as I said is irrelevant now for UK as we are now Third Country and this is a fundamental change To suggest as he does that it is only going back to what it was "before" is simply wrong. The loss of free movement does not affect most UK people because they never took advantage and can still take their holidays there without any real extra hassle. But for many specific groups such as boaters, entertainers, backpackers, peripatetic workers, academics like me, pensioners who want to retire in the sun - the list is quite long it was a massive loss of rights. .

 

[Tranona]

But you inferred they did not need to visit officialdom after 90 days .

You still don't get it do you. 90/180 is a Schengen rule for non EU citizens. The fact that EU citizens may be required to register in another state after 90 days is unconnected - it is not 90 out of 180 just after 90 days. You seem to have difficulty in distinguishing between different laws and sets of rules.

 

[st599]

With FOM you have to register your presence after 90 days but you were automatically allowed to stay if you had means. After a different number of days (usually 183, but country dependent) you become tax resident.

But you inferred they did not need to visit officialdom after 90 days .

I did not infer anything, I explicitly stated that an EU citizen has to register after 90 days in my first post.

 

[Poignard]

You still don't get it do you. 90/180 is a Schengen rule for non EU citizens. The fact that EU citizens may be required to register in another state after 90 days is unconnected - it is not 90 out of 180 just after 90 days. You seem to have difficulty in distinguishing between different laws and sets of rules.

It's like beating your head on a brick wall....

 

[Portofino]

You still don't get it do you. 90/180 is a Schengen rule for non EU citizens. The fact that EU citizens may be required to register in another state after 90 days is unconnected - it is not 90 out of 180 just after 90 days. You seem to have difficulty in distinguishing between different laws and sets of rules.

You still can’t say Willy nilly over 90 days in a member state Wether a 3 P or EU National without officialdom .
Its not trivial btw .Think very carefully before popping up .

As far as the 180 for eu .I think you will find those say a Austrian with flat in Venice popping back every so often to re zero the “90 “ or a French man crossing the boarder at Ventimiglia as another example ….say 10 weeks away 1 week end at home etc will both will be under scrutiny and brought to task by Italian officialdom .

But you can try to re zero it every 89 days going “ home “ but it won’t wash .The 90 in 180 is a widely accepted EU precedent . Say a 6 week stint then go home for a 1 night rtn for another 6 weeks and keep going .It won’t work hiding behind “ I only spent 89 days in each stint .So a hand full of days at home .

But does work if you spread the 90 in Venice or near the Italian border in France to under 90 in 180 with your too and through ing flitting about twixt your main home and “ holiday “ home

The pair of them are living in a country they are not paying any taxes in .The Austrian in Venice and French guy in Italy .

The eu recognised this is a big problem and are clamping down .Good luck trying to claim your 4/5 days at home means you are not flouting the rules .

 

[billskip]

Just checked in on this thread. Can't believe the quantity of repeatedly incorrect information written on here by Portofino, now with some support from Billskip.

I can't believe how they misleadingly conflate:

(a) a hugely important and fundamental absolute right of people to remain in a country of their choosing, with​

​

(b) the triviality that is the mere option given to EU countries, if they so choose, and most haven't, to require that unemployed people staying for more than 3 months should merely fill in an administrative form and show means, with the penalty for non compliance being mandated by EU law (Article 8(2) of Directive 2004/38/EC) to be tiny.​

Beggars belief. Hopefully future readers of this/those who find it on Google can sort wheat from chaff

I can only write what I have been told by the authorities when dealing with residential issues for myself moving to Spain and my partner coming from Venezuela, I have read and been told what is written in the attachment in Porto's post by officials here, my partner's son is here from Venezuela with his wife and son Nd we are dealing with the immigration regularly.
Now there maybe a problem that I have explaining, and I maybe misunderstood, but it is a requirement that any foreigner registers with the authorities if their stay exceeds 90 days.
My partners other son also Venezuelan moved to Netherlands 20years ago, he now has Dutch nationality with Dutch passport and had to forfeit his Venezuela nationality.
Now if he comes to Spain as a Dutchman as he did he was advised if his stay was more than 90 days he would have to register also if he changes to Spanish nationality he can have dual nationality with Venezuela.
I know in other posts how you have said Googlers shouldn't believe what is Googled, but my experience is nothing to do with Google.
I believe Porto is saying the same, any foreigner is supposed to register his presence if exceeding 90 days.

 

[st599]

.
I believe Porto is saying the same, any foreigner is supposed to register his presence if exceeding 90 days.

No one is saying you don't have to register after 90 days if the EU country requires it (EU and non-EU citizens). They're saying that there is no 90 day in 180 limit for EU Citizens and that this is not the same as free movement.

 

[billskip]

It's like beating your head on a brick wall....

I couldn't agree more.....

 

[billskip]

No one is saying you don't have to register after 90 days if the EU country requires it (EU and non-EU citizens). They're saying that there is no 90 day in 180 limit for EU Citizens and that this is not the same as free movement.

This is the problem they are saying or inferring what is being said is wrong. You are saying/agreeing registration is required if 90 days are exceed, but you are also incurring the 90/180 which is in different contex.

 

[benjenbav]

You still can’t say Willy nilly over 90 days in a member state Wether a 3 P or EU National without officialdom .
Its not trivial btw .Think very carefully before popping up .

As far as the 180 for eu .I think you will find those say a Austrian with flat in Venice popping back every so often to re zero the “90 “ or a French man crossing the boarder at Ventimiglia as another example ….say 10 weeks away 1 week end at home etc will both will be under scrutiny and brought to task by Italian officialdom .

But you can try to re zero it every 89 days going “ home “ but it won’t wash .The 90 in 180 is a widely accepted EU precedent . Say a 6 week stint then go home for a 1 night rtn for another 6 weeks and keep going .It won’t work hiding behind “ I only spent 89 days in each stint .So a hand full of days at home .

But does work if you spread the 90 in Venice or near the Italian border in France to under 90 in 180 with your too and through ing flitting about twixt your main home and “ holiday “ home

The pair of them are living in a country they are not paying any taxes in .The Austrian in Venice and French guy in Italy .

The eu recognised this is a big problem and are clamping down .Good luck trying to claim your 4/5 days at home means you are not flouting the rules .

Hi P, all this is a million miles away from the original question but, basically, there is a world of difference between being able to do something if you register and not being able to do it unless you get prior permission.

 

[jfm]

I can only write what I have been told by the authorities when dealing with residential issues for myself moving to Spain and my partner coming from Venezuela, I have read and been told what is written in the attachment in Porto's post by officials here, my partner's son is here from Venezuela with his wife and son Nd we are dealing with the immigration regularly.
Now there maybe a problem that I have explaining, and I maybe misunderstood, but it is a requirement that any foreigner registers with the authorities if their stay exceeds 90 days.
My partners other son also Venezuelan moved to Netherlands 20years ago, he now has Dutch nationality with Dutch passport and had to forfeit his Venezuela nationality.
Now if he comes to Spain as a Dutchman as he did he was advised if his stay was more than 90 days he would have to register also if he changes to Spanish nationality he can have dual nationality with Venezuela.
I know in other posts how you have said Googlers shouldn't believe what is Googled, but my experience is nothing to do with Google.
I believe Porto is saying the same, any foreigner is supposed to register his presence if exceeding 90 days.

Billskip, I don't have the energy anymore. One last go, briefly...

(a) your "must register after 90 days" is correct only in some countries and in some circumstances - this thread isn't just about Spain and your particular circumstances;
(b) your "requirement that any foreigner registers..." is just not correct in law across the EU, even if it happens to be a requirement in Spain - again this thread isn't Spain-specific; and
(c) Porto is not saying the same. He is saying something very different. He is saying that the 90 day limit now applicable to UK folks following Brexit already applied to them pre-Brexit, which is 100% wrong. He, and you, are conflating Brexit's removal of a very important right to be somewhere with a mere occasional trivial administrative obligation to register as being somewhere. See post 99 immediately above.

This forum is in general a reliable source of info and it's a shame that Porto repeatedly pollutes it.