A different EU v UK question on boat place

[petem]

View attachment 159392
Which bit of your nationality does not exempt you am I misunderstanding?

I suggest you go to the home page Accueil - France-Visas and use the wizard to establish if you need a Visa or not.

This returns the following:

Irish (EU) passport - Visa not required for stays shorter or longer than 90 days.
British passport - Visa only required for stays longer than 90 days.

The above confirms exactly what I and may other have been saying.

 

[jfm]

I really cant be arsed with it anymore........

That's very bad form. You're posting that to support your position because it says "...your nationality doesn't exempt you ...". Anyone who is an EU national IS exempt by virtue of their nationality, and if you posted s link that would be clearly apparent.

 

[jfm]

I suggest you go to the home page Accueil - France-Visas and use the wizard to establish if you need a Visa or not.

This returns the following:

Irish (EU) passport - Visa not required for stays shorter or longer then 90 days.
British passport - Visa only required for stays longer then 90 days.

The above confirms exactly what I and may other have been saying.

Exactly Pete.
Perhaps best to end all this and let this thread die. Anyone reading this in the future can see that Porto and Billskip are not correct.

 

[billskip]

I suggest you go to the home page Accueil - France-Visas and use the wizard to establish if you need a Visa or not.

This returns the following:

Irish (EU) passport - Visa not required for stays shorter or longer then 90 days.
British passport - Visa only required for stays longer then 90 days.

The above confirms exactly what I and may other have been saying.

With respect to all I am withdrawing from this debate as it is clearly being selective about the understanding of information.
That said Peter, tha screen shot I took is exactly from your link. I may be confused thinking I am misunderstanding what to me clearly states in your link and my screen shot ...which is from your link...nationality does not exempt you...
As Jim says its better to let it die.....

 

[jfm]

... is clearly being selective about the understanding of information.

It certainly is!

 

[petem]

With respect to all I am withdrawing from this debate as it is clearly being selective about the understanding of information.
That said Peter, tha screen shot I took is exactly from your link. I may be confused thinking I am misunderstanding what to me clearly states in your link and my screen shot ...which is from your link...nationality does not exempt you...
As Jim says its better to let it die.....

That's the problem with Google, sometimes it can take you to a page without knowing the context that the page is within.

Agree, done to death now!

 

[billskip]

That's the problem with Google, sometimes it can take you to a page without knowing the context that the page is within.

Agree, done to death now!

Agree, but I opened you link and you link is the same as my screen shot...it says clearly in your link ..."for any stay in France exceeding 90 days you are required to apply for a long stay visa, in this instance your nationality does not exempt you from requirements "
This is written in your link pete.....its not google taking me to the wrong page.
I rest my case

 

[petem]

Agree, but I opened you link and you link is the same as my screen shot...it says clearly in your link ..."for any stay in France exceeding 90 days you are required to apply for a long stay visa, in this instance your nationality does not exempt you from requirements "
This is written in your link pete.....its not google taking me to the wrong page.
I rest my case

We've both linked to the same Web site, but different pages. That's important.

This is your link: Long-stay visa - France-Visas (when I say "your link" you couldn't actually be bothered to post it so I had to Google it like you presumably did)

This is my link: Accueil - France-Visas (which contains the important wizard to determine if a Visa is required)

The website is designed so that the user establishes whether a Visa is required before he looks at the web page that you linked to.

 

[Portofino]

Porto ... If you look at the detailed regulations in most countries that have adopted the 90-day registration approach, leaving the country for a short period of time does not reset the clock. The underlying principal is a stay exceeding 90 days within a fixed period such as 180 days, or a calendar or tax year, with anti-avoidance and abuse provisions written into the legislation to prevent the circumstances you are referring to.

Almost all countries which have. a 90-day visitors visa (e.g. US, Australia, etc.) have similar approaches where a short trip across the border (e.g. to Canada/Bahamas, or New Zealand) to reset the clock can be disregarded by immigration and the visit regarded as continuous.

It's very dangerous to rely on public information websites as if they are gospel. In many cases they aim to summarise huge volumes of complex legislation and regulations accumulated over years into something that is readable and understandable by the average person who is acting in good faith and not embarking on a tax evasion scheme. They miss out on the nuances and provisions intended to catch such people. At the end of the day, the decision to grant permission to stay is a discretionary one and if they think someone's behaviour is abusive they will deny permission and pursue them for taxes.

You are agreeing with me .Thx .

 

[Portofino]

Nothing to do with burdensome...nothing to do with Brexit...its to do with the law/ requirements of the country...please name a country where it's legal to go and spend more than 90 days in 180 without any obligation or legal requirement...not just UK people ...please give an example.

We are still waiting bill , I have asked the lynch mob too .Nada , zilch response .Nothing changed with brexit with my 90 day over stay point .Eloquently (as per normal btw ) answers by DAW s posts .

Glad some one dragged tax in btw .
Hear once more in the EU the expectation and law basis of FoM is you pay tax in the state you spend most of your time in .Or turned around should not be paying majority tax , ( like my Austrian guy with the palazzo in Venice ) in a state he’s a PP holder but only spends 4/5 days in Austria , while lording it up in Italy for 360 days abiding by what he read on the internet re nipping home every 89 days .

As DAW says the 90 is internationally recognised .Still is post brexit .Was supposed to be pre B for Brits and still is for EU to EU . But as I said it’s easy for EU to EU to flout and many do .

So do we all agree on the 90 day thing you suppose to contact officialdom.I have been calling it “ officialdom “ and apologies for this in a vane ( rather unsuccessful attempt ) to damp down pedantic Googler s on here .

 

[Tranona]

Agree, but I opened you link and you link is the same as my screen shot...it says clearly in your link ..."for any stay in France exceeding 90 days you are required to apply for a long stay visa, in this instance your nationality does not exempt you from requirements "
This is written in your link pete.....its not google taking me to the wrong page.
I rest my case

I think you are still missing the point. The requirement to apply for a longer term visa only applies to third country nationals, and has done for a long time.

The confusion arises because of the clear difference between EU rules for freedom of movement which apply to all EU citizens and Schengen rules for third country national (and the movement from one to the other for UK citizens following Brexit0s. There is no connection. Under that are individual state rules on registration and residence that apply to both EU citizens and to third country nationals who are not visitors. Then there are individual state rules for longer stay visas, for example the French visa but also the "working" type visas in Spain and Portugal (that are different from Schengen work visas). These state visas have their own rules.

It is important to determine which of these sets of rules apply in a specific case. In the case of the links to the French visa, the first step is to see if the individual is eligible to apply for the visa (Pete's link) and then if it does apply go to the visa page (that you posted an extract from) which sets out the rules.

It is complicated - because it is, particularly so following Brexit which creates new situations such as for example the overlap of the CTA and the NI agreement and the large number of "mixed" marriages and dual citizenships that 30 years of the EU created, plus a desire of some states to use the freedom allowed under EU rules to create their own state only visas.

 

[Portofino]

You want examples?

The UK. Pre brexit, a French person (say) could come to UK without needing to register with any UK authority by reason of having stayed 91 days.

Every EU country, where the person staying for 91 days is working as an employee in the country they are visiting, there is no requirement to register by virtue of staying 91 days (nor may there be, because EU law prohibits it) .

He meant a Brit .A Brit going to stay probably in the EU not working .Let’s keep “working “ out of this as it a given the necessary officialdom , visa , permit ? or what ever you wanna call it has been taken care of by the employer .

We are talking Brits in the EU .

 

[Tranona]

.

As DAW says the 90 is internationally recognised .Still is post brexit .Was supposed to be pre B for Brits and still is for EU to EU . But as I said it’s easy for EU to EU to flout and many do .

That is nonsense. 90 days is NOT internationally recognised except in the sense that it is used in the Schengen treaty as the limit for third country nationals visiting the area. In the UK for example, the default period is 180 days. There is no international body that determines what that period should be, so how could it be termed "internationally recognised".

 

[Portofino]

That is nonsense. 90 days is NOT internationally recognised except in the sense that it is used in the Schengen treaty as the limit for third country nationals visiting the area. In the UK for example, the default period is 180 days. There is no international body that determines what that period should be, so how could it be termed "internationally recognised".

Work through my Austrian example .Are you saying the Italians have no case ?Based on what btw .
This has now entangled tax btw .

edit Check out USA s day numbers to stay only as a tourist visitor ………save you the effort its er 90 .Wow what a coincidence !

 

[benjenbav]

We are still waiting bill , I have asked the lynch mob too .Nada , zilch response .Nothing changed with brexit with my 90 day over stay point .Eloquently (as per normal btw ) answers by DAW s posts .

Glad some one dragged tax in btw .
Hear once more in the EU the expectation and law basis of FoM is you pay tax in the state you spend most of your time in .Or turned around should not be paying majority tax , ( like my Austrian guy with the palazzo in Venice ) in a state he’s a PP holder but only spends 4/5 days in Austria , while lording it up in Italy for 360 days abiding by what he read on the internet re nipping home every 89 days .

As DAW says the 90 is internationally recognised .Still is post brexit .Was supposed to be pre B for Brits and still is for EU to EU . But as I said it’s easy for EU to EU to flout and many do .

#119 gives examples of where no paperwork is required.

In 2015 I (UK citizen, not politically exposed, non criminal) could have spent >90 days in Italy without any formalities beyond telling the relevant Italian government agency in certain circumstances. They couldn’t have refused my wish to stay there.

In 2023 I can only spend >90 days in any 180 day period in Italy if I get a visa. Italy has discretion to grant or refuse it.

The only difference in my status is that UK is now a third country in EU parlance.

Where I report my taxable income and where I pay tax are entirely other matters. Complex and dependent on many factors.

I’m sure there’s no question of a lynch mob.

 

[billskip]

We've both linked to the same Web site, but different pages. That's important.

This is your link: Long-stay visa - France-Visas (when I say "your link" you couldn't actually be bothered to post it so I had to Google it like you presumably did)

This is my link: Accueil - France-Visas (which contains the important wizard to determine if a Visa is required)

The website is designed so that the user establishes whether a Visa is required before he looks at the web page that you linked to.

First I'm not very good at posting links, that said I kicked on your link, when it opened I navigated to the page you are referring to.what seems to be the problem is that it's not accepted that what I quoted was from your link...if it states two different things one contradict the other I cant be responsible for that.

 

[Portofino]

#119 gives examples of where no paperwork is required.

In 2015 I (UK citizen, not politically exposed, non criminal) could have spent >90 days in Italy without any formalities beyond telling the relevant Italian government agency in certain circumstances. They couldn’t have refused my wish to stay there.

In 2023 I can only spend >90 days in any 180 day period in Italy if I get a visa. Italy has discretion to grant or refuse it.

The only difference in my status is that UK is now a third country in EU parlance.

Where I report my taxable income and where I pay tax are entirely other matters. Complex and dependent on many factors.

I’m sure there’s no question of a lynch mob.

But after 90 days in IT the Italians would have eased you into registration and with that all that ( there local way of interpreting eu law ) entails ramping up getting you to contribute by way of taxes .Auto dropped a eu person in residence status with all that that entails .

Thankfully with brexit a Brit visitor can simply squark over stay , face the music like AN other 3 P and go home .
As a 3 P status deporting him / her and black marking them is all they can do .Wether that’s construed as a brexit benefit is far beyond his forum imho from the responses thus far ?

#119 is wittering on about employment.That’s I thought outside this discussion.Taken as read officialdom has been sought , met and necessary paperwork done to both parties agreement.

The 90 day thing in a member state my point still stands . everyone needs to seek officialdom of some shape or size .
Ok the Irish might be outside this as an exception.

Infact Brits are dealt potentially dealt more leniently than eu to eu being 3 P from a tax grab pov .Think about it .''
Being a 3 P adds shields from brussels

re lynch mob .I know my bad .You are one of the good / polite guys .Just being general .

 

[billskip]

I think you are still missing the point. The requirement to apply for a longer term visa only applies to third country nationals, and has done for a long time.

The confusion arises because of the clear difference between EU rules for freedom of movement which apply to all EU citizens and Schengen rules for third country national (and the movement from one to the other for UK citizens following Brexit0s. There is no connection. Under that are individual state rules on registration and residence that apply to both EU citizens and to third country nationals who are not visitors. Then there are individual state rules for longer stay visas, for example the French visa but also the "working" type visas in Spain and Portugal (that are different from Schengen work visas). These state visas have their own rules.

It is important to determine which of these sets of rules apply in a specific case. In the case of the links to the French visa, the first step is to see if the individual is eligible to apply for the visa (Pete's link) and then if it does apply go to the visa page (that you posted an extract from) which sets out the rules.

It is complicated - because it is, particularly so following Brexit which creates new situations such as for example the overlap of the CTA and the NI agreement and the large number of "mixed" marriages and dual citizenships that 30 years of the EU created, plus a desire of some states to use the freedom allowed under EU rules to create their own state only visas.

You are missing the point and introducing all sorts of other anomalies..simple what I am saying, this is not about brexit , fom or anything to do with the UK you are fixated with.
Read my posts read my quotes and read what is written in the links....if what is written by the websites is wrong tell them .

 

[benjenbav]

But after 90 days in IT the Italians would have eased you into registration and with that all that ( there local way of interpreting eu law ) entails ramping up getting you to contribute by way of taxes .Auto dropped a eu person in residence status with all that that entails .

Thankfully with brexit a Brit visitor can simply squark over stay , face the music like AN other 3 P and go home .
As a 3 P status deporting him / her and black marking them is all they can do .Wether that’s construed as a brexit benefit is far beyond his forum imho from the responses thus far ?

#119 is wittering on about employment.That’s I thought outside this discussion.Taken as read officialdom has been sought , met and necessary paperwork done to both parties agreement.

The 90 day thing in a member state my point still stands . everyone needs to seek officialdom of some shape or size .
Ok the Irish might be outside this as an exception.

Infact Brits are dealt potentially dealt more leniently than eu to eu being 3 P from a tax grab pov .Think about it .''
Being a 3 P adds shields from brussels

re lynch mob .I know my bad .You are one of the good / polite guys .Just being general

I hadn’t really thought about deportation as being a possible benefit…

 

[petem]

First I'm not very good at posting links, that said I kicked on your link, when it opened I navigated to the page you are referring to.what seems to be the problem is that it's not accepted that what I quoted was from your link...if it states two different things one contradict the other I cant be responsible for that.

If you click on my link: Accueil - France-Visas

You'll then be presented with this page:


Click on the box "Do you need a visa?".

Input your details and it will tell you if you need a visa or not.

If you are an EU national then you won't need a visa for stays of under or over 90 days.

Brits will need a visa for stays over 90 days.

------------------------------------------

If we look closer at the web page that you linked to, it does contradict itself (Long-stay visa - France-Visas).


I would just ignore the bit in blue as it does not represent EU law.