petem
Well-Known Member
Nobody is disputing that.
A different EU v UK question on boat place
- Thread starter ColleyV8
- Start date
kashurst
Well-Known Member
And then I believe the boat had to be recertified as EU CE approval isnt good enough anymore. So bung on a few more thousands for a proper UK CA approval! Has anyone written that set of standards yet or is it just the EU one with a posh rubber stamp?? Edit: so that very nice ACM that cost £100k eu vat paid with all the right bits of paper, will now cost @ £135,000 with some new but basically the same bits of paper, then of course if a boat dealer is bringing it in, they will want at least 10% for their trouble, So sales price @ £145,000 maybe £150,000.
Last edited:
billskip
Well-Known Member
Well what is being disputed? Has anyone here actually experienced registering their presence and what it entails, is it possible declaration has to be made which could lead to refusal?
The requirements quoted above apply I believe to anybody that wishes to live/reside in a foreign country. Obviously the clear definition of live/reside is sometimes distorted which leads to interpretation of requirements/laws to be understood to suit ones argument.
petem
Well-Known Member
The law is that British citizens can only stay in the EU for 90 days in every 180 (unless you have a Visa that allows you to stay longer).
This was not the case when we were in the EU.
The obligation to register is a different matter.
kashurst
Well-Known Member
If said person is an EU citizen and they want to remain longer than 90 days in some countries they may be required to register. The word in the EU law is quite specific “may”. It says may to leave individual states to decide if they want either everyone to register or specific individuals who have come to theitr attention. I dont know anyone, and I know quite a few here in Spain who did that to either live permanently or stay a few months more, unless they decided to stay permanently after being in the new country for a few years. It was not illegal unless said country required you to register and you were not a burden on the state. If said EU citizen wanted to remain permanently that was really easy, look in local free newspaper for local lawyer who for s small fee would take you to town hall and local policecststion. Stamp stamp stamp, there you go residents permit. I did know one couple who arrived by boat from the uk. They stayed in spain very happily for about 7 years no problems. But the daft sod kept his uk registered car and didnt take it out of the country back to the uk. The police pulled him one day and then it all unravelled. No mot, invalid insurance, lots of awkward questions as they had bent all the rules. Others stayed 10 plus years, paid local taxes etc, got spanish car etc everybody happy. If however you are not an EU citizen welcome to the world of visas and wealth taxes, and the rolling 90 days in 180 law.
Last edited:
billskip
Well-Known Member
My point I am trying to make is that many assume to suit their circumstances the law and then quote it just because people have got away with it. There are many that just "wing it" and try to argue their rights.
This forum makes good discussion but if someone really wanted to be safe in their knowledge then best advice is to seek answers from your embassy. That said you would be surprised (or maybe not) that different people in the positions in the embassy can give different answers.
This is no different than those that believe that living say in Spain and having a uk address at a relative is acceptable..in truth in some instances it's not, this is why I suggested in my post that living/residing definition is distorted to suit.
It is my belief that tightening up on all the free movement rules will come into play to stop a lot of the "fiddling" such as benefits.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
Seeking officialdom to fill a form in was and still is there for all EU citizens who exceed the 90 in 180 .
The myth was pre brexit you could wonder around Willy nilly ignoring the 90 in 180 and I said a lot did .That doesn’t make it right , the fact prebrext many didn’t bother hunting down officialdom and telling them and attempting to meet the next level of criteria .
The “form “ and it’s criteria sure may be different post brexit ( visas ) and each state uses its own criteria .
It’s all semantics some of you on here arguing because of name or title changes to the paperwork or where or how you got it .You were never supposed to exceed 90 in 180 and EU citizens today still supposed not , without making yourself know to officialdom and meeting necessary criteria which varies state to state .
All that’s happened is a different form filling exercise and because of PP stamping Brits are complying .
st599
Well-Known Member
There is no 90 in 180 for EU Citizens, that's the point of FOM. An EU Citizen can stay wherever they like within the EU provided they follow local rules of registration (I did it for work on a number of occasions). After 90 days they do not have to leave the EU for 90 further days.
90 in 180 is only for 3rd country citizens entering Schengen countries.
You are conflating two completely different areas of EU immigration law.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Once again you are wrong. While local formalities were sometimes necessary, that was nothing directly to do with the EU or freedom of movement.
Now with the loss of freedom of movement if you want to spend more than your 90/180 you have to either get a work visa or apply for residence which is not EU wide but only in the state where you have residency - that is your travel to other states in Schengen is still subject to the 90/180 rule. There are effectively no visas available for visitors to stay longer except in France (which has onerous conditions) and Sweden.
Placing it in our boating context UK citizens can no longer buy a boat here, kit it out and sail to the Med where there were no restrictions (from the EU) on places to stop, or work, limits on how long the boat can stay, nor on where or when you could sell it plus access to health systems everywhere under the same terms as local citizens. Same applies to campervan owners, back packers or anybody else who wanted to live and travel freely.
With my previous work hat on I used to run European wide university degree programmes in partnership with other universities so my students could move around freely, do their studying, have holidays and work anywhere with the minimum of formalities mainly related to local employment law. Now they would have to obtain specific defined visas which would limit what they could do.
The limitations of access to the European boat market and the consequences have been well covered here so I won't repeat them.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
“May “ find me a state in the eu that doesn’t require officialdom to acknowledge you or another EU citizen ( Petes French to Spain for example ) exceeding 90 in 180 .
Its was always there .Still is and it’s often flouted ……..er not by U.K. PP holders now !
Last edited:
Portofino
Well-Known Member
EUR-Lex - l33152 - EN - EUR-Lex
What do you make of this underlined in red taken from the above .
It contradicts what you are saying ?
Sorry for the wiggly line my boats not got stabs
Oh folks who don’t meet the criteria are refused and escorted ( within a timely manner ) to the boarder .Despite some on here dubbing this “ formality “ down . Happens in Schengen Switzerland .Folks are refused .Good luck playing the EU FoM card .
What I am correctly saying there was always a by 90 days in 180 a officialdom meeting .It’s just post brexit changed it name to a visa and added certainty .
The main point of FoM was borderless travel within the EU .It didn’t mean you could exceed the 90 in 180 without volunteering to pop up on officialdom radar and dealing with “ formalities “ which as billskip from first hand experience has intimated are open to interpretation.
Attachments
Last edited:
billskip
Well-Known Member
Deleted
Tranona
Well-Known Member
You are still getting confused and wrong. There is no such thing as 90/180 days for EU citizens . That only applies to third country citizens. As said many times the 2may" is exactly that, recognising that many states have registration requirements, but registering is not a requirement of the EU freedom of movement for its citizens. Indeed there was no registration requirement in the UK when we were in the EU for citizens of other EU states. There is now of course because EU citizens (all 6 million+ of them) are now "third country" in the UK and subject to our immigration laws.
I am not sure why you persist in posting incorrect information or making up your own interpretation of the law.
Portofino
Well-Known Member
The ethos , one way of thinking about all this , your previous interpretation and execution , now / today and certainly in the future when the EU begins further tightening up of “ rules “ Rules already in place just not adhered to id this ….
Reflect on this .
They are trying to cut down , cut back on people not paying taxes in the states where they live , spend most time .
In theory with FoM you supposed to after 90 days seek out officialdom and attempt “ formalities “ .
Many still don’t .
Cos your ( U.K. citizen) PP s are now stamped …it’s all shock and horror.
Reflect on this .
They are trying to cut down , cut back on people not paying taxes in the states where they live , spend most time .
In theory with FoM you supposed to after 90 days seek out officialdom and attempt “ formalities “ .
Many still don’t .
Cos your ( U.K. citizen) PP s are now stamped …it’s all shock and horror
.
billskip
Well-Known Member
Are you suggesting the attachment in Porto's post is incorrect?
Portofino
Well-Known Member
See my post #71 .
Also one of billskips earlier .” Germans in the queue in Tenerife because they wanted to exceed 90 in 180 “ and Sp are cracking down .Granted previous yrs they might not have cared , not bothered .So Germans if they wintered in T just stayed 4/5 months and went home thinking they didn’t need to register.They always did but no one inc Sp officialdom bothered .
If your students had education visa etc say for 12/12 or the full course 36/12 then obviously they would have been covered . But we not talking education exemptions .
julians
Well-Known Member
We (Brits) can only spend 90/180 days in any EU country, and the clock keeps ticking and accumulating even if we move from country to country in the EU, and if we want to stay longer than 90 days in the eu we have to apply for a visa valid for a specific country and meet fairly onerous conditions, the visa is only valid in the country it was applied for and not valid against any other country in the EU.EUR-Lex - l33152 - EN - EUR-Lex
What do you make of this underlined in red taken from the above .
It contradicts what you are saying ?
Sorry for the wiggly line my boats not got stabs
Oh folks who don’t meet the criteria are refused and escorted ( within a timely manner ) to the boarder .Despite some on here dubbing this “ formality “ down . Happens in Schengen Switzerland .Folks are refused .Good luck playing the EU FoM card .
What I am correctly saying there was always a by 90 days in 180 a officialdom meeting .It’s just post brexit changed it name to a visa and added certainty .
The main point of FoM was borderless travel within the EU .It didn’t mean you could exceed the 90 in 180 without volunteering to pop up on officialdom radar and dealing with “ formalities “ which as billskip from first hand experience has intimated are open to interpretation.
Other EU residents can go to one country in the EU,stay for 90 days, then move to another stay for 90 days ad infinitum. If they want to stay in one country longer then they *may* have to regsiter with the host country and Doing so may have some conditions attached, but these conditions are almost certainly less onerous than getting a visa (but obviously will vary from country to country)
To argue that these two scenarios are effectively the same is stretching things a bit.
billskip
Well-Known Member
My guess is the misunderstanding is that before Brexit we could spend unlimited time "travelling around Europe " but people used that to mean living in one country.
What you are saying, and I agree, people have never been able to stay in a foreign country for more than 90 days, which also applied before, but they could stay in Europe travelling around for 180 days....I think it will come that Brits will be able to declare their presence at the cop shop and get another 90 days therefore conforming with the regulations for all other countries in the EU.
They certainly want to put an end to the falsifying of country/place of residence, driving licence infringement, tax and benefits fraud.
kashurst
Well-Known Member
Registering your residence abroad after the first 3 months - Your Europe
quote "After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority"
billskip
Well-Known Member
Nobody is arguing they are the same, well I'm not, and although porto's post allowed that to be assumed I dont think he is either.