Refueler
Well-known member
The Industry people I know - metal fabricators - of course use Autocad or similar high end Industrial product. But I was just commenting on the Hobby people designing up 3D RC models etc.
3D Printers
- Thread starter Hurricane
- Start date
The Industry people I know - metal fabricators - of course use Autocad or similar high end Industrial product. But I was just commenting on the Hobby people designing up 3D RC models etc.
Hurricane
Well-known member
I "kind of" expected a reply like that from you.
Not meaning to be derogatory - you are a professional - I am a keen amateur.
Yes, I'm sure you are correct and we have had conversations on other Open Source software in the past.
Incidentally, the topological naming problem is all fixed in this next release supposedly later this month.
It is available in beta form and I've tested the topological naming problem as much as I am able.
Its ok for all you lot that are working for professional companies.
In fact, when I owned my own business, we didn't scrimp on software or any tools that the company needed to do its job.
But I've been retired foe over 20 years now and I simply can't justify those huge expenses for the likes of Fusion for what is, essentially, a hobby.
FreeCAD isn't that bad - I've made some good models using it and it hasn't cost me a penny.
Back onto Open Source Software
I wonder how many people realise that they actually use Open Source Software during their everyday lives.
Most internet servers run Open Source software in some form
Big projects like HMRC will be using it
I'm mainly referring to Linux of course, but there are other examples Apache (old hat but none the less Open Source)
Android IS Linux so Open Source
Most TV set top boxes will be running it
And virtually all household internet routers
For those in the know, there is a mass of FOSS (Free Open Source Software) out there.
Libre Office and OnlyOffice are free fully compatible alternatives to Misrosoft's Office
Loads of web browsers are Open Source - Firefox is a really good example.
eMail software like Thunderbird
I can go on.
And this is a really good example of Open Source Software working well:-
Back to the topic of this thread - I understand Bambu Labs used the Prusa slicer whish is Open Source.
Bambu enhanced it and named their copy Bambu Studio but, crucially, kept it as Open Source.
Prusa now, of course, have access to all the enhancements that Bambu make - and so the cycle continues.
@jakew009
I hope I'm not being rude.
jakew009
Well-known member
Not rude at all
Many of the cad programs offer extremely cheap versions if you are a hobbiest / non commercial user. Solidworks is just $38 per year 3DEXPERIENCE SOLIDWORKS for Makers
I do understand where you are coming from but ultimately time is everyone’s most precious commodity! Good that they are finally fixing the naming problem.
Refueler
Well-known member
I cannot help but think that newcomers to the CAD world - need intro software - to see if they can gain the rudimentary skill to then progress further.
I tried but then came to realisation that I would be stuck in that cheap / free version with a hard transition to subscription better SW ... I was struggling anyway even with simple stuff .. so paying out hard earned was not to be.
I envy those who persevere and succeed with CAD ..
I tried but then came to realisation that I would be stuck in that cheap / free version with a hard transition to subscription better SW ... I was struggling anyway even with simple stuff .. so paying out hard earned was not to be.
I envy those who persevere and succeed with CAD ..
Hurricane
Well-known member
It is hard work learning this stuff but very rewarding when you achieve results.
I liken it to 35 years ago when I learned to use Photoshop.
I've been using it ever since and feel that I'm a relative expert in that software now.
I find all new things difficult but I don't give up easily.
Back to FreeCAD.
When I was working my company developed its own software that we marketed across the world.
So, I understand the depths that these packages have to go to - to be professional.
Every time I run FreeCAD, I see more depth in the work that has been done.
A lot of software these days gets a particular part of the job done and then moves on.
If you know the kind of think to look for.
FreeCAD does have that depth - even for an Open Source package.
And there is loads of support for it on Youtube.
I will be sticking with it.
vas
Well-known member
Mike,
I learnt AutoCAD before win3.1, on DOS... it's a few years now, so I do even most simple design things in it. for some years late 90s early 00s I'd do more fancy modeling in 3DS but then the 3D modeler in AutoCAD was massively improved and haven't looked back.
otoh, when I started designing PCBs 5-yrs ago, I used KiCAD and I'm very happy with that tbh.
So, depends what you learn and when you learn it. Obvs getting all AutoDesk progs for free as an educator definitely helps
Oddly enough I teach blender3D to 2-3rd year architecture students the same way I also get them into Rhino3D (different tools for different jobs) but I agree you have to get them to learn what's available opensource and let them choose their poison!
So, overall I agree with jake in his approach!
V.
I learnt AutoCAD before win3.1, on DOS... it's a few years now, so I do even most simple design things in it. for some years late 90s early 00s I'd do more fancy modeling in 3DS but then the 3D modeler in AutoCAD was massively improved and haven't looked back.
otoh, when I started designing PCBs 5-yrs ago, I used KiCAD and I'm very happy with that tbh.
So, depends what you learn and when you learn it. Obvs getting all AutoDesk progs for free as an educator definitely helps
Oddly enough I teach blender3D to 2-3rd year architecture students the same way I also get them into Rhino3D (different tools for different jobs) but I agree you have to get them to learn what's available opensource and let them choose their poison!
So, overall I agree with jake in his approach!
V.
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DavidJ
Well-known member
I’m a little mystified how the FreeCAD (or any other package) gets converted to something the 3D printer understands
Is this something that takes time to learn or is it simple and automatic?
Is this something that takes time to learn or is it simple and automatic?
vas
Well-known member
when you model with these tools you do what we call solid modelling. So the file/model itself has "inside" it all the info needed to topologically describe the geometry in 3 dimensions..
Then the slicer (the mediator from the 3D model to the 3D printer) does it's job automatically.
Generally all is fairly simple and straightforward (he says...)
V
Then the slicer (the mediator from the 3D model to the 3D printer) does it's job automatically.
Generally all is fairly simple and straightforward (he says...)
V
Refueler
Well-known member
Jumping in from the real amateur but long time user of 3D printing ...
Slicer : Basically a program that reduces an item to layers (layer depth / width depends on the printer and hot end + user settings - my printers are 0.4mm).
There are many Slicer programs out there - with most taking STL files (the files produced from the CAD). and for most 3D printers they create GCode files which have the command lines in to actually print the item.
Do not forget that most items printed are parts of the final .. not only due to physical limitation of working area of printer vs size of item ... but also that printers do not like overhangs or unsupported areas ... Slicer can be set to add supports - but this leads to extra work cleaning up etc.
The Printer manufacturers will usually recc'd and bundle Slicer program with their machines ... but my observation of all the people I know - each has found their own preference for slicer - not so much for exterior of print - but more for the 'infil' ... plus most commercially available print files have included Slicer files as well as the base STL's ... common being Simplify3D .. another being Prusa ... Cura ...
For me - I usually print with Simplify3D ... but because of the complexity of structures and stresses in the flying models .. I may print some parts in another Slicer ....
This Frigate (~2m LOA) - I used 3 different Slicers to get the desired results :
She is designed for motorising and water use - but I decided to keep her as a display model when you enter my workshop ....
Floor above is sail loft ..
Slicer : Basically a program that reduces an item to layers (layer depth / width depends on the printer and hot end + user settings - my printers are 0.4mm).
There are many Slicer programs out there - with most taking STL files (the files produced from the CAD). and for most 3D printers they create GCode files which have the command lines in to actually print the item.
Do not forget that most items printed are parts of the final .. not only due to physical limitation of working area of printer vs size of item ... but also that printers do not like overhangs or unsupported areas ... Slicer can be set to add supports - but this leads to extra work cleaning up etc.
The Printer manufacturers will usually recc'd and bundle Slicer program with their machines ... but my observation of all the people I know - each has found their own preference for slicer - not so much for exterior of print - but more for the 'infil' ... plus most commercially available print files have included Slicer files as well as the base STL's ... common being Simplify3D .. another being Prusa ... Cura ...
For me - I usually print with Simplify3D ... but because of the complexity of structures and stresses in the flying models .. I may print some parts in another Slicer ....
This Frigate (~2m LOA) - I used 3 different Slicers to get the desired results :
She is designed for motorising and water use - but I decided to keep her as a display model when you enter my workshop ....
Floor above is sail loft ..
Hurricane
Well-known member
Removing all the techonology the process to print a model made in FreeCAD is dead simple.
After designing your model - select it - switch to the Mesh workbench - create a mesh - export the mesh in .STL format - then import the STL into the Bambu Studio.
I've got a job printing at the moment so here are some pics
This is the model in FreeCAD
This is it in the Bambu Studio (slicer)
And this is a screenshot from the camera inside the printer
You don't have to worry about the various stages (GCODE etc) it is all done in the background.
I will take a photo of the completed job when finished.
It is a replacement gland to the boat's solar panels.
I want to replace the old glands without re-threading all the wires.
EDIT
Sorry - it probably doesn't make sense without showing you the top cover
This is a screenshot from FreeCAD
Real pics to follow
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Hurricane
Well-known member
Just got to make 3 more now
DavidJ
Well-known member
That’s a great example of what can be achieved. I look forwards to the learning curve
Refueler
Well-known member
What about layer heights, extrusion rates, temps, infill geometry and % etc. ??
Agreed that GCode is generally devised - handled and fed to printer ... my Repetier via USB ... my Ender via SD card ... but the parameters are set by me ... to arrive at the weight / strength etc.
Hurricane
Well-known member
Bambu have, pretty much, covered all that.
Virtually everything is handled by default values.
All Bambu's "Own Brand" of filament have RFID tags fitted inside the rolls.
When these rolls are placed into the AMS (colour) unit, the printer (using the RFID tags) automatically detects the colour and material type.
The printer then looks this up in its database and sets all the temperatures and speeds etc.
Other parameters are set by defaults.
For the novice, you simply take a new Bambu printer out of its packaging, plug it in and start printing.
Thats what I did.
As an example, from the factory, the printers are fitted with a 0.4mm nozzle so that is the base default.
It really is as simple as that.
On day one/first print, you don't even need to connect it to a computer - there are models already installed in the printer.
The good old Benchy for example was my first print - already installed.
But this concept carries on further.
Today, I've been printing using ASA filament.
I was expecting problems because they all say the newbies like me should stick to PLA.
But I simply unpacked a roll of ASA - stuck it in the printer and had some really great results without setting anything up.
The biggest thing I noticed that the printers bed was a lot hotter than when I use PLA - but I have no idea what those temperatures are.
Bambu did it all for me.
You might think that Bambu will have locked you into their supply and then price accordingly.
Having been printing for some time, I guess you have found some good suppliers at good prices.
But, actually, Bambu's prices are really very competitive.
A 1Kg roll of PLA (replacement reel) is as little as 14 quid when you buy 4 or more rolls.
Likewise a 1Kg roll of ABS is the same price.
Have a look at this page
Bambulab UK Store |Filament discounts up to 30% off
And all their rolls have those little RFID tags so it is as simple as "stick it in and print".
IMO, Bambu have turned 3D printing from a hobby of making a 3D printer work into using a 3D printer to print your models.
Just like you would expect to plug your normal paper printer into your computer and print your letters etc out.
In the early days you had to experiment - heck - even make stuff for your printer to work.
Refueler
Well-known member
Not knocking Bambu for its efforts ... on model forums - Bambu is being discussed a lot. But there have been a number of posts of users having difficulties.
IMHO - its fine if you want to accept default values .... but many of my prints have parameters that fall well outside normal or default .... it can range from Vase Mode through to the feed rates and multipliers.... first layers .. intermediate layer changes ... etc.
As an example ... the infill used to give strength and support to walls can vary weight of a print significantly. Slicers give you options as to the form and geodetics of the infill ... as well as the % of fill (100% being a solid object). A change from Rectilinear to Gyroid or Cubic Fill with same % fill factor can have a weight reduction but maintain similar strength / support values. But few Slicers actually give option for Gyroid ... one reason why I use more than one Slicer dependent on job.
Such may not be important for here - with yachting stuff - but for models to fly etc - weight and layer strength etc are prime considerations.
My print filaments range from PLA ... PLA+ ....LW PLA .... ABS .... PETG ..... and each with numerous parameters depending on the model.
IMHO - its fine if you want to accept default values .... but many of my prints have parameters that fall well outside normal or default .... it can range from Vase Mode through to the feed rates and multipliers.... first layers .. intermediate layer changes ... etc.
As an example ... the infill used to give strength and support to walls can vary weight of a print significantly. Slicers give you options as to the form and geodetics of the infill ... as well as the % of fill (100% being a solid object). A change from Rectilinear to Gyroid or Cubic Fill with same % fill factor can have a weight reduction but maintain similar strength / support values. But few Slicers actually give option for Gyroid ... one reason why I use more than one Slicer dependent on job.
Such may not be important for here - with yachting stuff - but for models to fly etc - weight and layer strength etc are prime considerations.
My print filaments range from PLA ... PLA+ ....LW PLA .... ABS .... PETG ..... and each with numerous parameters depending on the model.
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Hurricane
Well-known member
I believe that the Bambu Studio software (Bambu's slicer) is a branch of the Prusa slicer.
Being Open Source, it is available for free download and runs on all PC platforms.
Have you downloaded and played with it?
Under infill, it does support both Gyroid and Cubic along with 16 others.
Bambu Studio also supports other printer manufacturers as well.
As I said above, this software takes all the experiment/guesswork out of 3D printing.
You don't even need to know that it is creating and running GCode.
I liken it to the protocols used in ordinary paper printers.
When you print a letter on a Laser printer, you don't need to know that the software is using PCL code in the background.
The computer just gets on and does the job.
Refueler
Well-known member
mmmmm ALL Slicers generate and send Gcode without user intervention .....
Only time you see it is when designer includes Gcodes with his STL's or you transfer from Computer to printer as I do with my Ender by SD Card ...
The Slicer creates - writes the Gcode file to SD card instead of sending to printer. I prefer that as then computer is not pageing ... My Repetier - I usually do direct USB transfer - so that does have computer running the script. I can do SD card for that printer - but its better via USB. The Ender is same either way - but more convenient via SD card - then it leaves me able to USB to Repetier.
If Bambu is using Prusa .. then it will have Gyroid .. as that is one infill that is not common - but it is one of the best for us modellers.
Only time you see it is when designer includes Gcodes with his STL's or you transfer from Computer to printer as I do with my Ender by SD Card ...
The Slicer creates - writes the Gcode file to SD card instead of sending to printer. I prefer that as then computer is not pageing ... My Repetier - I usually do direct USB transfer - so that does have computer running the script. I can do SD card for that printer - but its better via USB. The Ender is same either way - but more convenient via SD card - then it leaves me able to USB to Repetier.
If Bambu is using Prusa .. then it will have Gyroid .. as that is one infill that is not common - but it is one of the best for us modellers.
vas
Well-known member
we are a bit far from ps and pcl though Mike.
we are getting there.
my first 3d printer was an original Makerbot replicator must have been 15yrs ago now. Still sitting in my office doing bugger all as it has always done, was really a pos. The one I'm using is probably 3yrs old now and works fine if the consumables are fresh, else forget it.
I'm confident that in 3-4yrs time all 3D printers will be plug and play without the need to play with settings (and I agree with Refueler you NEED to adjust things now!)
we are getting there.
my first 3d printer was an original Makerbot replicator must have been 15yrs ago now. Still sitting in my office doing bugger all as it has always done, was really a pos. The one I'm using is probably 3yrs old now and works fine if the consumables are fresh, else forget it.
I'm confident that in 3-4yrs time all 3D printers will be plug and play without the need to play with settings (and I agree with Refueler you NEED to adjust things now!)
Hurricane
Well-known member
Well, I'm not changing much at all.
I've just switched from printing out some small containers using PLA to making some Nuts and Bolts using ABS.
The only thing I've had to change was which spool of filament to use and to tell Bambu Studio to make the bolts with 100% infill
So I haven't had to adjust anything.
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