30 footer with twin wheels?

Tranona

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There's no reason at all that you can't have an underdeck autopilot with a tiller. We have one on the JPK, it's a very common thing.
Only if there is access to an exposed bit of rudder stock and on many tiller steered boats, particularly older boats this is just not possible as the rudder tube goes right up to the aft deck. Fine if the designers allowed for fitment of the ram as many modern tiller steered boats do, but not for the large number of older boats whose only option is a tiller pilot.
 

mjcoon

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Would you need two tillers - one for each rudder?
To elaborate a bit: it might be a great simplification to have two rudder stocks each with a tiller on top. But that would limit the helm to sitting on the down side when the view from the windward side is likely to be better. Not sure if anyone has ever tried two linked tillers as an alternative to one central tiller with a long extension...
 

flaming

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Only if there is access to an exposed bit of rudder stock and on many tiller steered boats, particularly older boats this is just not possible as the rudder tube goes right up to the aft deck. Fine if the designers allowed for fitment of the ram as many modern tiller steered boats do, but not for the large number of older boats whose only option is a tiller pilot.
But we're discussing new build boats...?
 

flaming

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To elaborate a bit: it might be a great simplification to have two rudder stocks each with a tiller on top. But that would limit the helm to sitting on the down side when the view from the windward side is likely to be better. Not sure if anyone has ever tried two linked tillers as an alternative to one central tiller with a long extension...
Sunfast 3200. So old hat it's not a current model... The later 3300 has reverted to a single tiller very similar to the J99 above.

Jeanneau-Sun-Fast-3200-R2-G5.jpg
 

mjcoon

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Sunfast 3200. So old hat it's not a current model... The later 3300 has reverted to a single tiller very similar to the J99 above.

Jeanneau-Sun-Fast-3200-R2-G5.jpg
That reminds me of sailing downwind in a flotilla yacht with a tiller. And finding that as we rolled I could stand keeping the tiller between my knees and the roll would apply just the right correction to give a straight course. (But this was not as far back as when Snapdragon 747s were flotilla boats!) I don't think the pictured yacht is meant to go downhill.
 

Stemar

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That reminds me of sailing downwind in a flotilla yacht with a tiller. And finding that as we rolled I could stand keeping the tiller between my knees and the roll would apply just the right correction to give a straight course. (But this was not as far back as when Snapdragon 747s were flotilla boats!) I don't think the pictured yacht is meant to go downhill.
Get your feet tangled in all that string at just the right height to catch them, and I reckon things could go downhill pretty fast.

Going back to the original subject, my first thought was that there's nowhere comfortable to sit when helming, and just a couple of wires to lean against. I'm sure Market research have done their bit, and it will appeal to some, but it's not for me. I like that tiller far better
 

wully1

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Get your feet tangled in all that string at just the right height to catch them, and I reckon things could go downhill pretty fast.

Going back to the original subject, my first thought was that there's nowhere comfortable to sit when helming, and just a couple of wires to lean against. I'm sure Market research have done their bit, and it will appeal to some, but it's not for me. I like that tiller far better

Market research probably decided they won’t get sailed that much by folk who actually sail? Folk who just might want to go upwind when it’s a bit bumpy?

I wonder what market research would decide is the perfect design of boat to sail this side of the Channel?
 

westernman

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It is a fashion statement. Look at me with my new yacht with twin wheels. I always think tillers are better under about 33ft long, much less complicated than a wheel but do confuse newbies used to driving a car.
Twin tillers are better in wide assed boats. Twin rudders too.
Twin tillers are better than twin wheels in a 50ft boat.

1652120814735.jpeg
 

dunedin

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It’s amazing how much criticism of twin wheels comes from people who have very limited experience of sailing with them. I was a bit sceptical before got current boat - but circa 20k miles on I am a fan.

Agree that at 30 foot it is at the bottom end of size band for twin wheels, but they are a very effective solution for sailing in a 35 foot plus modern boat.
 

Sandy

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Agree that at 30 foot it is at the bottom end of size band for twin wheels, but they are a very effective solution for sailing in a 35 foot plus modern boat.
I find I can steer a 30 meter boat, plus bowsprit, very easily with a single wheel. While not bang up to date she was built in 2006.

I'd be interested to hear of the advantages of being off centre on a twin wheeled boat.

The picture that @westernman has posted looks like an accident waiting to happen.
 

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I find I can steer a 30 meter boat, plus bowsprit, very easily with a single wheel. While not bang up to date she was built in 2006.

I'd be interested to hear of the advantages of being off centre on a twin wheeled boat.

The picture that @westernman has posted looks like an accident waiting to happen.
Ability to steer does not equal ability to sail effectively. If you want to see the sails in a variety of conditions in a boat with a 3.5m+ beam carried aft you need either a huge wheel or twin helms. As a recent purchaser of a twin helmed boat, my first, it is without doubt a considerable advantage to wander to and fro across the cockpit for forward vision and sail monitoring. The access through the cockpit is also a noticable benefit. It's not that a single wheel cannot be made to work, it's just not as effective.
As for accidents waiting to happen, that's everything boating...in the wrong hands.
 

dunedin

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I find I can steer a 30 meter boat, plus bowsprit, very easily with a single wheel. While not bang up to date she was built in 2006.

I'd be interested to hear of the advantages of being off centre on a twin wheeled boat.

The picture that @westernman has posted looks like an accident waiting to happen.
A lot does depend on the beam of the boat - and whether you like to be able to be up by the side to see the jib luff (many older boats had tiny wheels with very little forward vision of sails etc).
And as for “accident waiting to happen”, there are so many different factors involved. A traditional old gaffer with no lifelines, all ropes at the mast and needing to go onto the foredeck to change sails might be described as even more of “a series of accidents waiting to happen”.
 

Sandy

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And as for “accident waiting to happen”, there are so many different factors involved. A traditional old gaffer with no lifelines, all ropes at the mast and needing to go onto the foredeck to change sails might be described as even more of “a series of accidents waiting to happen”.
I was thinking about that small child sat in the cockpit with no visible LJ or lifeline as the parents are looking out of the boat.
 

Blueboatman

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What about a below deck a/p and a “fly by wire” wee tiller or mini wheel that sticks on to any surface anywhere you wish, using a vacuum sucker ?
I reckon it could be a versatile winner and please the minimalists and bean counters too
 

mjcoon

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What about a below deck a/p and a “fly by wire” wee tiller or mini wheel that sticks on to any surface anywhere you wish, using a vacuum sucker ?
I reckon it could be a versatile winner and please the minimalists and bean counters too
Is this high-tech solution going, by some magic, to have the feedback that several people have mentioned?
 
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