THOSE OF US WITH BOATS IN THE MED
- Thread starter itspaul
- Start date
Hurricane
Well-known member
Yep - they move engines bigger that this regularly.
I thought the same as you but I let them get on with the job.
There are about 150 fishing boats in this area that they service/maintain.
And I am told that they often have to move/replace engines - thats what they do.
Actually, they are also the main Volvo Penta dealer in the area - well respected.
BTW - I didn't actually deny that the job was with the deck - more clue to follow.
It is a lovely start to the day so we will be working outside today.
timbad
Active member
Very much looking forward to seeing pictures of your latest project. Make sure you both have sun cream on if you are outside all day ?
Cheery
Well-known member
Join the WhatsApp for WHO 00 41 798 931892. You get a menu of what you want to know, latest figures, precautions, mythbusters etc. The reply is automated and instant.
Clancy Moped
Well-known member
Who do you work with there Julian and which marina?
julians
Well-known member
Boat is in port adriano, with ponent yates
Clancy Moped
Well-known member
PM sent.
petem
Well-known member
I'd be surprised if the marineros aren't still working. I'll email my marina.
Hurricane
Well-known member
It seems that you know my big job is all to do with decks then.
So, here are some pics.
Decks stripped
Whilst disposing of the old teak deck, I noticed what was written on the cardboard box (Quality Teak Products)
Made me smile:-
So, you will probably gather from this that I'm replacing my teak decks.
It is a big job so I have decided to do it in three phases - Foredeck and side decks now - Flybridge next year - and the cockpit the year after.
Many on here will remember that we replaced the bathing platform with Flexiteek a couple of years ago,
Synthetic teak works for us - there are disadvantages but taking everything into consideration, I think it wins over conventional wood.
We were at anchor late last September and I was "flunkying off" the boat one morning - cleaning the boat with the old teak in comparison to the Flexiteek made the decision for me.
In the mornings, we use the overnight dew to clean the boat - free water.
If you step from wet old wood teak onto the GRP superstructure you will a black footprint.
Teak just gets dirty and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
I've met people who say that you just wash a bucket of sea water over it and that cleans it - IT DOESN'T
Conversely, in our mornings at anchor, we can even wipe a flunky over the Flexiteek to clean it - it is really easy to keep clean.
So, last summer I set to to replace the rest (all except the bathing platform) with Flexiteek.
And as you would expect, the prices I received were VERY expensive.
Not belittling the value but it was just too much to swallow.
So I looked for a different approach - MAKE AND INSTALL IT MYSELF
I have planned to start a separate thread sometime but I would like to do that constructively and only after I have had some success.
If anyone is interested, I will start a new thread (probably when I get home to the UK)
Bu in the meantime, I hope you don't mind me hi-jacking this thread.
A lot has happened since the end of last summer.
I ended up teaching myself how to weld plastics and making the synthetic teak panels myself.
And to top it all, I seem to have chosen the most difficult part of the boat to start with complex curves and designs (and thats another story).
Today, though, marked a milestone for me.
I won't post any pics yet because it isn't completely finished but I'm really really please with the way it is turning out.
Apart from the virus, we have had our problems this week.
When Princess installed the teak side decks (I believe they are made by Watsons), they build a join in the middle.
To make it look good, they "tooth" the planks so that every other one is longer that the other.
See here
IMO, this is a mistake.
Water penetrates the gap and to make the matter worse, they screw the loose ends down.
This means you get an area about 2 feet long that is continually wet underneath - at times, water squadges out as you walk over it.
So, when we removed the teak, this is what we saw:-
After a bit of cleaning this:-
But after removing the screws, a hole was left where water can get into the core.
So, this week, we had to drill out every screw hole and fill it with Epoxy:-
A job that I didn't expect but needed doing.
Anyway, that was a couple of days ago.
Today, we fitted the new plastic teak and it is starting to look good.
As long as you don't mind me using this thread, I will post some pics of the finished deck when we finish it in the next few days.
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jrudge
Well-known member
No wonder you don’t mind being locked down !
I have just ordered teak for my s58 flybridge. £5k plus delivery plus removal plus fitting. Ouch
I have just ordered teak for my s58 flybridge. £5k plus delivery plus removal plus fitting. Ouch
AndieMac
Well-known member
I think a deck replacement story will be very interesting for many folk.
Hard to believe Princess would have been screwing into the deck with such a late model boat, even the Taiwanese stopped that practice many years before.
Hard to believe Princess would have been screwing into the deck with such a late model boat, even the Taiwanese stopped that practice many years before.
MapisM
Well-known member
M, having gone through the very same teak removal job not long ago, you have my utmost respect for tackling it as a DYI.
That said, I did follow very carefully the work that someone else did for me, and here's my personal 2c, fwiw.
As you know, I'm a fan of NOT having teak on any GRP decks, for several reasons, but now I'm speaking just from a technical, rather than a personal preference viewpoint.
Technically speaking, all builders are perfectly aware that glueing teck on a GRP deck is always a mistake, regardless of the technique.
They just don't care, because a) they can charge good money for it, and b) it takes some years for the problem to surface, so they will not have to afford any warranty repair costs.
Trouble is, teak and GRP are VERY different materials, and there's no way round that.
So, over time water their movements are bound to let rain penetrate in between, and remain trapped there.
I mean, even in the best glued and sealed teak deck: if it isn't fresh water that finds its way in from outside, moisture develops between teak and grp anyhow, due to huge thermal excursions.
Bottom line, the GRP and its gelcoat under any teak covered deck is by definition prone to get soaked in its sandwich at worst, or to blistering at best - with osmosis halfway in between, sort of.
When the teak (which back then was 13 years old) was stripped from my main deck, all considered the situation was not too bad - just a very wet surface, with gelcoat blistering.
Nonetheless, almost all of the gelcoat was sanded away to bare GRP, also in order to get a perfectly flat and smooth surface - see below.
The boat was then left sheltered for some weeks, to let the deck dry as much as possible.
In my boat, a total epoxy treatment of the deck surface was planned from the beginning - again, see pic below.
Of course, this was in the contest of a deck which was only going to be painted and treated with Kiwigrip.
But after seeing what teak hides under its surface over time, I would have wanted to epoxy it also before re-doing the teak - in a sense, even more so, if you see what I mean.
There is just one thing that I'm not considering in my reasoning - simply because I have neither first hand nor reported experiences in this respect:
How differently the Flexiteex can behave vs. real wood.
I mean, for all I know, it could be that the seal between it and the GRP surface is much more longlasting than between teak and GRP.
Or not - I just don't know.
There is another thing that I heard recently though, which is of no interest to yourself but might be interesting to anyone who is considering a teak refit.
The most "modern" method used also by builders for fitting teak over GRP decks, i.e. with pre-built areas, where the teak is already glued to a thin GRP layer, which in turn is glued to the actual GRP deck, in some cases proved even less longlasting than the traditional technique.
To the point of creating deck delamination, after a (relatively) small number of years.
Buyers beware...
That said, I did follow very carefully the work that someone else did for me, and here's my personal 2c, fwiw.
I don't think it's actually a big mistake of Princess/Watsons, M.
As you know, I'm a fan of NOT having teak on any GRP decks, for several reasons, but now I'm speaking just from a technical, rather than a personal preference viewpoint.
Technically speaking, all builders are perfectly aware that glueing teck on a GRP deck is always a mistake, regardless of the technique.
They just don't care, because a) they can charge good money for it, and b) it takes some years for the problem to surface, so they will not have to afford any warranty repair costs.
Trouble is, teak and GRP are VERY different materials, and there's no way round that.
So, over time water their movements are bound to let rain penetrate in between, and remain trapped there.
I mean, even in the best glued and sealed teak deck: if it isn't fresh water that finds its way in from outside, moisture develops between teak and grp anyhow, due to huge thermal excursions.
Bottom line, the GRP and its gelcoat under any teak covered deck is by definition prone to get soaked in its sandwich at worst, or to blistering at best - with osmosis halfway in between, sort of.
When the teak (which back then was 13 years old) was stripped from my main deck, all considered the situation was not too bad - just a very wet surface, with gelcoat blistering.
Nonetheless, almost all of the gelcoat was sanded away to bare GRP, also in order to get a perfectly flat and smooth surface - see below.
The boat was then left sheltered for some weeks, to let the deck dry as much as possible.
You were rather optimistic in this respect.
In my boat, a total epoxy treatment of the deck surface was planned from the beginning - again, see pic below.
Of course, this was in the contest of a deck which was only going to be painted and treated with Kiwigrip.
But after seeing what teak hides under its surface over time, I would have wanted to epoxy it also before re-doing the teak - in a sense, even more so, if you see what I mean.
There is just one thing that I'm not considering in my reasoning - simply because I have neither first hand nor reported experiences in this respect:
How differently the Flexiteex can behave vs. real wood.
I mean, for all I know, it could be that the seal between it and the GRP surface is much more longlasting than between teak and GRP.
Or not - I just don't know.
There is another thing that I heard recently though, which is of no interest to yourself but might be interesting to anyone who is considering a teak refit.
The most "modern" method used also by builders for fitting teak over GRP decks, i.e. with pre-built areas, where the teak is already glued to a thin GRP layer, which in turn is glued to the actual GRP deck, in some cases proved even less longlasting than the traditional technique.
To the point of creating deck delamination, after a (relatively) small number of years.
Buyers beware...
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MapisM
Well-known member
Yup, but not all of them, C.
I've seen a 2007 Trader whose deck was entirely covered with teak, using more screws than you can even imagine!
AndieMac
Well-known member
Yup, but not all of them, C.
I've seen a 2007 Trader whose deck was entirely covered with teak, using more screws than you can even imagine!
That's scarey, a lot of drama in the future for whoever bought that boat.
I finally managed to find a trawler without teak decks, factory non-skid as far as the eye can see. I thought if it's good enough for P, then it's good enough for me ?
Kawasaki
Well-known member
Wow!
Interesting
Fair play to taking that on
?
Interesting
Fair play to taking that on
?
Hurricane
Well-known member
Thanks MapisM
Interesting reply and I remember your posts when your job was done.
Interesting that both yours and ours were about the same age when the team was removed.
Anyway, back to my project.
At the end of last year, I couldn't find a DIY supplier of Flexiteek.
Even some of the DIY synthetic teak companies had been bought by Flexiteek.
It seems that they are trying to corner the market and in doing so kill any DIY enthusiasts.
So, it was Dcember, when I eventually found a willing and helpful supplier of the base material.
A really helpful guy who has been in the business a long time and not only supplied the material but also showed me in his workshop the techniques and skills required. And there is a lot to understand. You don't simply stick this stuff together. A lot of thought is needled in laying the design out as well as actually mastering the welding itself.
It has been very interesting.
More to follow if people are interested.
Interesting reply and I remember your posts when your job was done.
Interesting that both yours and ours were about the same age when the team was removed.
Anyway, back to my project.
At the end of last year, I couldn't find a DIY supplier of Flexiteek.
Even some of the DIY synthetic teak companies had been bought by Flexiteek.
It seems that they are trying to corner the market and in doing so kill any DIY enthusiasts.
So, it was Dcember, when I eventually found a willing and helpful supplier of the base material.
A really helpful guy who has been in the business a long time and not only supplied the material but also showed me in his workshop the techniques and skills required. And there is a lot to understand. You don't simply stick this stuff together. A lot of thought is needled in laying the design out as well as actually mastering the welding itself.
It has been very interesting.
More to follow if people are interested.
Portofino
Well-known member
Water trapped inevitably between the layers , wether OEM teak , new teak or artificial is that really a problem ?
Screw holes aside ....most sealants if used will leak with time , we all get that .
Its just ( the top layer ) a fancy cover and I cant see the issue with it getting permanently wet in patches under because if you think what else is permanently wet below the WL .Furthermore not only wet below the WL .....all the through the hull skin fittings and various sealants and goo,s ......all time deteriorating merrily away .
Toss in all holes in the superstructure etc etc .
Hurricanes got it right the surface deck coverings have a life , there’s real functional alternatives each with its own well documented pros + cons and he,s going for the low maintenance/ cleanliness option .
Of course water will end up under it and that will increase year on year .Buts that’s not a good enough reason to totally remove it and go for Alwgrip or what ever imho .
Personally , we just have solid 15 mm planks on the bathing platform .,and a bit of teak on the Passerelle grate .
The rest cockpit , decks are all painted awlgrip ( or similar ) textured paint ....it’s easy to maintain/ clean but if you walk in morning dew you still get black ish foot prints .
could be dirty feet , barefoot or just atmospheric dirt .Point is dirty foot prints on a wet surface I think is just part of boating .Suspect Hurricanes gonna get it with the flexiteak ?
Our “problem “ feels like a right 21 st C problem is trampling dirty foot prints from the passerelle on to the painted ( awlgrip) aft deck .We just put a mat down or towel .
Talking Med bare feet btw .
We don’t miss not having teak everywhere , like on the previous S/Sker .
Screw holes aside ....most sealants if used will leak with time , we all get that .
Its just ( the top layer ) a fancy cover and I cant see the issue with it getting permanently wet in patches under because if you think what else is permanently wet below the WL .Furthermore not only wet below the WL .....all the through the hull skin fittings and various sealants and goo,s ......all time deteriorating merrily away .
Toss in all holes in the superstructure etc etc .
Hurricanes got it right the surface deck coverings have a life , there’s real functional alternatives each with its own well documented pros + cons and he,s going for the low maintenance/ cleanliness option .
Of course water will end up under it and that will increase year on year .Buts that’s not a good enough reason to totally remove it and go for Alwgrip or what ever imho .
Personally , we just have solid 15 mm planks on the bathing platform .,and a bit of teak on the Passerelle grate .
The rest cockpit , decks are all painted awlgrip ( or similar ) textured paint ....it’s easy to maintain/ clean but if you walk in morning dew you still get black ish foot prints .
could be dirty feet , barefoot or just atmospheric dirt .Point is dirty foot prints on a wet surface I think is just part of boating .Suspect Hurricanes gonna get it with the flexiteak ?
Our “problem “ feels like a right 21 st C problem is trampling dirty foot prints from the passerelle on to the painted ( awlgrip) aft deck .We just put a mat down or towel .
Talking Med bare feet btw .
We don’t miss not having teak everywhere , like on the previous S/Sker .
MapisM
Well-known member
Well, it depends, obviously.
But in the worst case, if a sandwich GRP deck gets soaked inside, you can end with what is usually called a "soft deck", where the structural sandwich stiffness is compromised.
And when that happens, it's too late for re-sealing, and you can only cut and remove the whole upper GRP layer, replace all the sandwich material, and re-glass the upper layer on top - see example below.
'Fiuaskme, I'd rather have osmosis on the hull...!
Portofino
Well-known member
Yes appreciate that, the balsa core thing soaking and decks turning into trampolines , but my point is water ingress into the topsides potentially can come from loadsa other sources and taken into perspective what’s happening below the WL as well .Well, it depends, obviously.
But in the worst case, if a sandwich GRP deck gets soaked inside, you can end with what is usually called a "soft deck", where the structural sandwich stiffness is compromised.
And when that happens, it's too late for re-sealing, and you can only cut and remove the whole upper GRP layer, replace all the sandwich material, and re-glass the upper layer on top - see example below.
'Fiuaskme, I'd rather have osmosis on the hull...!
Just feels like to me , that you are advocating everyone with a covered deck surface is eventually doomed ,
let’s leave glued in side hull glazing aside
MapisM
Well-known member
Naah, I'm not advocating anything.
Also because doomed we are regardless, since we decided to buy a boat.
I'm just pointing out some technical drawbacks of teak over GRP, backed by both mine and Hurricane's experience.
Albeit not to the extent of the last worst case above, luckily.
Goes without saying that everyone is free to decide what to do with their own boats.