MapisM
Well-known member
Of course we are, M.
Well worth a dedicated thread, in fact.
Maybe you could just add in it a link to these posts, to track easily the whole story.
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THOSE OF US WITH BOATS IN THE MED
- Thread starter itspaul
- Start date
Well worth a dedicated thread, in fact.
Maybe you could just add in it a link to these posts, to track easily the whole story.
Hurricane
Well-known member
Thanks P
If people don't mind, I think I will do a very simple version now on this thread and create a proper new one later with all the details.
More later this evening after dinner.
During these long evenings with nothing to do, we just go to bed so I should find time tonight to add some more about my project.
It is starting to "get me down" a bit at the moment.
The side step deck pieces (that are the last to fit in this session) look wrong - the planks don't line up right so I'm going to remake them tomorrow.
More about eye lines later this evening.
Hurricane
Well-known member
Eye Lines (aesthetics) follow.
As you would expect, I searched the internet for inspiration.
I found lots of examples but 2 stood out as "how not to do it" - one is a Princess V65 - the other (although it didn't say) is a Princess 67 like mine.
So, lets look at the way Princess/Watsons lay it all out - this is a pic of our old teak:-
Note that they use borders, full planks and the left over is split between the first and last plank (as you would expect).
I didn't have that luxury because my all my planks are wider so if I did what they do, I would end up with 24mm to split (12mm each side) which IMO would look awful.
So, lets look at one of the examples that I found on the internet (a reputable synthetic teak supplier).
The Princess V65
Here, they have done exactly as I explained above - split the remainder plank between two.
I'm not keen on that because it gets worse as you move towards the bow - see the small thin plank on the outboard side.
IMO, a better way is to offset the whole of the remainder to the inboard plank - as in this Princess 67 example:-
So, that what I decided to do.
However, I think you will agree that the P67 example isn't very good either which leads me to the next issue.
What should happen to the planks when they reach the bow?
Here is the Princess/Watson way of doing it:-
At the point that the deck starts to widen, they straighten out to merge into the "king plank" (the centre bow plank) at an angle.
The V65 example above and the P67 continues to curve:-
In the case of the P67, it seems that the designer has allowed the planks to continue to follow the line of the gunwale and then wondered what to do when they met at the hawser pipe (the hole the anchor chain goes through). He has then created a completely separate fore/aft panel of planks.
So, essentially, I decided to follow the Princess/Watson design and straighten the planks at the point the deck starts to widen. That way, they can join like the V65 example without that awful looking straight section in the P67 example - just IMHO of course. But, more importantly, the hatch covers don't look odd.
Now the next issue.
To "Snape or Not to Snape" - "That is the Question"
Snapes are those little rounded ends to planks that you will see on all wooden decks.
The idea is that you don't want wood to come to a point where it will splinter - Snapes avoid this,
But with plastic, you don't have the problem of splinters so you COULD make a deck without Snapes.
I wanted my synthetic deck to look as authentic as possible so I started out intending on incorporating Snapes so that it looked more like wood.
The problem is that making synthetic teak requires top and bottom welding. Bottom welding uses the manufactured edge thus providing a perfect finish.
Top welding involves hand made connections which aren't as good.
Snapes can only be top welded.
So, I mocked up two designs - one with and one without Snapes.
Here is the result:-
With Snapes
And Without Snapes
Everyone I asked seemed to prefer the non-snape mockup - saying that it looked "cleaner".
But, more importantly, SWMBO preferred the example without Snapes.
From my point of view, without Snapes I can limit the amount of Top Welding that I have to do thus making a better job.
For example I can give myself ten out of ten for the panels to cover my foredeck hatches made without spapes but I would probably only get nine out of ten with snapes.
Here is the final mockup with some mocked up hinges:-
So, to recap - I chose to make the deck to the original Princess/Watson design but without Snapes.
And, on top of all this, you have to keep all the planks running in line or it looks awful.
The construction process will follow tomorrow evening (something to do in the evenings during this lock down)
As you would expect, I searched the internet for inspiration.
I found lots of examples but 2 stood out as "how not to do it" - one is a Princess V65 - the other (although it didn't say) is a Princess 67 like mine.
So, lets look at the way Princess/Watsons lay it all out - this is a pic of our old teak:-
Note that they use borders, full planks and the left over is split between the first and last plank (as you would expect).
I didn't have that luxury because my all my planks are wider so if I did what they do, I would end up with 24mm to split (12mm each side) which IMO would look awful.
So, lets look at one of the examples that I found on the internet (a reputable synthetic teak supplier).
The Princess V65
Here, they have done exactly as I explained above - split the remainder plank between two.
I'm not keen on that because it gets worse as you move towards the bow - see the small thin plank on the outboard side.
IMO, a better way is to offset the whole of the remainder to the inboard plank - as in this Princess 67 example:-
So, that what I decided to do.
However, I think you will agree that the P67 example isn't very good either which leads me to the next issue.
What should happen to the planks when they reach the bow?
Here is the Princess/Watson way of doing it:-
At the point that the deck starts to widen, they straighten out to merge into the "king plank" (the centre bow plank) at an angle.
The V65 example above and the P67 continues to curve:-
In the case of the P67, it seems that the designer has allowed the planks to continue to follow the line of the gunwale and then wondered what to do when they met at the hawser pipe (the hole the anchor chain goes through). He has then created a completely separate fore/aft panel of planks.
So, essentially, I decided to follow the Princess/Watson design and straighten the planks at the point the deck starts to widen. That way, they can join like the V65 example without that awful looking straight section in the P67 example - just IMHO of course. But, more importantly, the hatch covers don't look odd.
Now the next issue.
To "Snape or Not to Snape" - "That is the Question"
Snapes are those little rounded ends to planks that you will see on all wooden decks.
The idea is that you don't want wood to come to a point where it will splinter - Snapes avoid this,
But with plastic, you don't have the problem of splinters so you COULD make a deck without Snapes.
I wanted my synthetic deck to look as authentic as possible so I started out intending on incorporating Snapes so that it looked more like wood.
The problem is that making synthetic teak requires top and bottom welding. Bottom welding uses the manufactured edge thus providing a perfect finish.
Top welding involves hand made connections which aren't as good.
Snapes can only be top welded.
So, I mocked up two designs - one with and one without Snapes.
Here is the result:-
With Snapes
And Without Snapes
Everyone I asked seemed to prefer the non-snape mockup - saying that it looked "cleaner".
But, more importantly, SWMBO preferred the example without Snapes.
From my point of view, without Snapes I can limit the amount of Top Welding that I have to do thus making a better job.
For example I can give myself ten out of ten for the panels to cover my foredeck hatches made without spapes but I would probably only get nine out of ten with snapes.
Here is the final mockup with some mocked up hinges:-
So, to recap - I chose to make the deck to the original Princess/Watson design but without Snapes.
And, on top of all this, you have to keep all the planks running in line or it looks awful.
The construction process will follow tomorrow evening (something to do in the evenings during this lock down)
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roa312
Active member
Thank you very much for taking the time to document and describe this process. I know of several people that will find this very interesting to follow. Best of luck with everything!
vas
Well-known member
excellent work Mike.
as already mentioned, would be v.helpful to have a proper thread (with appropriate title and keywords) with the process followed documented!
a lot of work, hope your back is up to it! I have enough teak to do my aft deck (I know!) and I've been postponing it year after year waiting for my back to recover fully.
cheers
V.
as already mentioned, would be v.helpful to have a proper thread (with appropriate title and keywords) with the process followed documented!
a lot of work, hope your back is up to it! I have enough teak to do my aft deck (I know!) and I've been postponing it year after year waiting for my back to recover fully.
cheers
V.
Hurricane
Well-known member
Yep - I agree
But this is such a big undertaking that I wanted a proper thread for it.
I didn't really want to post it until this phase (foredeck and side decks) was complete and, more importantly looks good.
It was just that this lock down has given time in the evenings to post and i thought it would be good for other people in lock down who are not on their boats, to read about an interesting process.
I will probably cut/paste quite a lot of this when I write the main thread.
We are hoping to "make a run for home" in a week or 10 days.
I will write the main thread when i get home and can look through all the photos etc.
Bouba
Well-known member
I find this hugely entertaining, and I am very interested in how you join it. Does it come in strips on a roll? And is it lighter than teak?
jrudge
Well-known member
How can you run for home with closed boarders and a lockdown ?
vas
Well-known member
is channel tunnel closed? They are down there with a car, so can drive all the way through SP & FR (I personally would stay put in SC till June tbh!)
jrudge
Well-known member
As far as I know the boarders are shut. Spain is more restrictive than U.K. and there is no allowable reason here to leave home to drive 1000 miles across 2 countries so I can’t see Spain or France would allow it?
Bigplumbs
Well-known member
Hurricane
Quite an undertaking and great Cudos for doing it yourself. Your mock ups look excellent and Yes the non snape one is the best in my view.
Threads like this are very good and help a lot of people in a real way to keep their spirits up and take their minds away from the current situation........I know many more people will be reading this and enjoying your work etc than comment so keep up the posting.
Again well done and I hope the weather soon changes for the better for you. Keep in good spirits I know all on here will do their best to support each other which in turn supports us all.
Dennis
Quite an undertaking and great Cudos for doing it yourself. Your mock ups look excellent and Yes the non snape one is the best in my view.
Threads like this are very good and help a lot of people in a real way to keep their spirits up and take their minds away from the current situation........I know many more people will be reading this and enjoying your work etc than comment so keep up the posting.
Again well done and I hope the weather soon changes for the better for you. Keep in good spirits I know all on here will do their best to support each other which in turn supports us all.
Dennis
jordanbasset
Well-known member
Friends of mine are driving back from Spain tomorrow. They are worried that the tunnel will be closed before they arrive home, but having had 4 ferries cancelled from Spain and needing to get home they are taking the risk. The other concern is being stopped by the Police and getting food on the way
They are in their 70's and it is not a journey they are looking forward to but both have long standing medical issues which they feel are best treated at home.
As to the border issue, the latest advice they received was you could cross if you were returning home and you had to complete the form for France for each day you were travelling through
We got the last ferry out of Spain a week ago, lots of Guardia civil about but we were allowed through as we were driving to the ferry to return home.
There are estimates of 50,000 plus Brit's in Spain stuck there who would normally return after their winter break in Spain.
Portofino
Well-known member
When we “ran “( Switzerland to Yorkshire) they allowed other EU vehicles to pass through then .Got a dog = car .
Works both ways citizens returning home .
Passing through was and i think still allowed ......probably best to have evidence of the pass out of Fr ready ie tunnel verification in case there’s a jobs worth on the border .
loads of freight at the tunnel as always so it’s kinda business as usual there .
Its locals they don’t want moving around inside there own countries, or mass migrations of holiday makers .
Theres essential workers , supply chain lorries , military etc on the roads .Fuel stations with food were fully functional, just follow social distancing rules .
Realise things might change , so keep an eye on the current situation.
Works both ways citizens returning home .
Passing through was and i think still allowed ......probably best to have evidence of the pass out of Fr ready ie tunnel verification in case there’s a jobs worth on the border .
loads of freight at the tunnel as always so it’s kinda business as usual there .
Its locals they don’t want moving around inside there own countries, or mass migrations of holiday makers .
Theres essential workers , supply chain lorries , military etc on the roads .Fuel stations with food were fully functional, just follow social distancing rules .
Realise things might change , so keep an eye on the current situation.
petem
Well-known member
Mike, unless you are willing to sit things out in Sant Carles for a few months (or more) you really should consider travelling back as soon as possible (i.e. tomorrow). Do you really want to be stuck in Spain with the rest of your family in the UK? Or start the journey and get to the tunnel to find it closed?
The Foreign Office are advising people to return the the UK as soon as possible (Return to the UK - Spain travel advice). Further more, I don't think that anyone thinks that travelling will be easier in two weeks time than today.
I'm not sure I'd want to be abroad, ill in a hospital when they're running out of ventilators and have to decide who to give them to.
DavidJ
Well-known member
I'm sure you know all about it but if you make a dash for it, you need paperwork for France.
I copy for you a reply I made to a posting from James.
From what I understand you don’t request a derogation, you just fill in the form and as long as you satisfy the criteria It will be valid.
if you don’t have a printer you can apparently write out the details on plain paper.
see
Attestation de déplacement dérogatoire et justificatif de déplacement professionnel
if you google you can do a “ translate this page”
Chris H
Active member
You don’t sound like a Yorkshire man !
Chris H
Active member
Very interesting and would love to tackle things like this, unfortunately my time is money and I’m sure it would be cheaper for me to get someone to do these types of job.
Hurricane
Well-known member
It has been a long day - weather has been fantastic - just like it should be at this time of the year.
The forecast is that it will change back to rain and wet tomorrow.
I know the sun has been out in the UK but I believe it has been quite cold.
In Spain today it was lovely:-
I took some trestle tables and a couple of sheets of MDF out with me so these were set up to make new side deck pieces that (as I said above) looked wrong.
As I said, it has been a long day and I'm knackered so I will post more on the construction process tomorrow.
We took lots of pics and a video of the process of remaking the side decks so I will write it all up tomorrow (probably during the rain).
The forecast is that it will change back to rain and wet tomorrow.
I know the sun has been out in the UK but I believe it has been quite cold.
In Spain today it was lovely:-
I took some trestle tables and a couple of sheets of MDF out with me so these were set up to make new side deck pieces that (as I said above) looked wrong.
As I said, it has been a long day and I'm knackered so I will post more on the construction process tomorrow.
We took lots of pics and a video of the process of remaking the side decks so I will write it all up tomorrow (probably during the rain).
Hurricane
Well-known member
So, the problem was this:-
Resolved by remaking the step piece.
Here is there result:-
Much better.
You have to remember that I made these panels at home in the UK before bringing them out to fit here in Spain.
The logic that I was using is explained above - I was starting full planks at the outboard edge and working towards the inboard.
Mt templates were good it is just that there is a small shoulder in the gunwale at that point which sets the whole panel over.
Looked awful and none of the planks lined up.
Yes it comes in a roll - 2 planks wide - most manufacturers are the same - I suspect that is the limit of the extruding process.
More on how to put it together later.
The colours, are very variable.
The supplier that I used has 5 colours and each with a choice of 3 colours of caulking (black, creme or grey)
Other manufactures have different options.
Now to a point that I haven't brought up yet.
Two and a half years ago, I chose Flexiteek for the bathing platform.
After choosing the material for this new part of the project, it was said to me that Flexiteek have a problem.
After a while, Flexiteek starts to show a "marble" effect and goes a pinkish colour.
I didn't believe it but looking closely at my Flexiteek that was fitted two and a half years ago, I can see the point.
Not a big issue but if you choose a colour, you "kind of" want it to stay that colour.
IMO, the reason is that Flexiteek are using an additive for their 2G product and they also add some spot colour during the extruding process to create a "wood grain" effect.
IMO, all this leads to inconsistencies in the product's stability.
Anyway, the colour difference is so small, you have to have it pointed out before you would see it.
Back to making the panels.
Yesterday, we made those extra panels to replace the side deck steps so I had the camera out and took pics at various stages.
So, in my next post, I will show you how I make the panels.
It may not be how it is done professionally but this is how I do it.
This morning, we managed to get the deck furniture back on before the rain set in.
So the boat is now safely tied up again and the anchor is back properly attached.
So, before proceeding, here are some pics of the job so far.
We still have some cleaning up to do and I want to "round off" the edges at the hatches etc.
Interestingly, this was the same foredeck 12 years ago when the boats was new (with her original wood decks) - fresh out of the factory in Sutton Harbour.
Resolved by remaking the step piece.
Here is there result:-
Much better.
You have to remember that I made these panels at home in the UK before bringing them out to fit here in Spain.
The logic that I was using is explained above - I was starting full planks at the outboard edge and working towards the inboard.
Mt templates were good it is just that there is a small shoulder in the gunwale at that point which sets the whole panel over.
Looked awful and none of the planks lined up.
Yes it comes in a roll - 2 planks wide - most manufacturers are the same - I suspect that is the limit of the extruding process.
More on how to put it together later.
The colours, are very variable.
The supplier that I used has 5 colours and each with a choice of 3 colours of caulking (black, creme or grey)
Other manufactures have different options.
Now to a point that I haven't brought up yet.
Two and a half years ago, I chose Flexiteek for the bathing platform.
After choosing the material for this new part of the project, it was said to me that Flexiteek have a problem.
After a while, Flexiteek starts to show a "marble" effect and goes a pinkish colour.
I didn't believe it but looking closely at my Flexiteek that was fitted two and a half years ago, I can see the point.
Not a big issue but if you choose a colour, you "kind of" want it to stay that colour.
IMO, the reason is that Flexiteek are using an additive for their 2G product and they also add some spot colour during the extruding process to create a "wood grain" effect.
IMO, all this leads to inconsistencies in the product's stability.
Anyway, the colour difference is so small, you have to have it pointed out before you would see it.
Back to making the panels.
Yesterday, we made those extra panels to replace the side deck steps so I had the camera out and took pics at various stages.
So, in my next post, I will show you how I make the panels.
It may not be how it is done professionally but this is how I do it.
This morning, we managed to get the deck furniture back on before the rain set in.
So the boat is now safely tied up again and the anchor is back properly attached.
So, before proceeding, here are some pics of the job so far.
We still have some cleaning up to do and I want to "round off" the edges at the hatches etc.
Interestingly, this was the same foredeck 12 years ago when the boats was new (with her original wood decks) - fresh out of the factory in Sutton Harbour.
timbad
Active member
Looking great MikeSo, the problem was this:-
View attachment 87291
Resolved by remaking the step piece.
Here is there result:-
View attachment 87292
Much better.
You have to remember that I made these panels at home in the UK before bringing them out to fit here in Spain.
The logic that I was using is explained above - I was starting full planks at the outboard edge and working towards the inboard.
Mt templates were good it is just that there is a small shoulder in the gunwale at that point which sets the whole panel over.
Looked awful and none of the planks lined up.
Yes it comes in a roll - 2 planks wide - most manufacturers are the same - I suspect that is the limit of the extruding process.
More on how to put it together later.
The colours, are very variable.
The supplier that I used has 5 colours and each with a choice of 3 colours of caulking (black, creme or grey)
Other manufactures have different options.
Now to a point that I haven't brought up yet.
Two and a half years ago, I chose Flexiteek for the bathing platform.
After choosing the material for this new part of the project, it was said to me that Flexiteek have a problem.
After a while, Flexiteek starts to show a "marble" effect and goes a pinkish colour.
I didn't believe it but looking closely at my Flexiteek that was fitted two and a half years ago, I can see the point.
Not a big issue but if you choose a colour, you "kind of" want it to stay that colour.
IMO, the reason is that Flexiteek are using an additive for their 2G product and they also add some spot colour during the extruding process to create a "wood grain" effect.
IMO, all this leads to inconsistencies in the product's stability.
Anyway, the colour difference is so small, you have to have it pointed out before you would see it.
Back to making the panels.
Yesterday, we made those extra panels to replace the side deck steps so I had the camera out and took pics at various stages.
So, in my next post, I will show you how I make the panels.
It may not be how it is done professionally but this is how I do it.
This morning, we managed to get the deck furniture back on before the rain set in.
So the boat is now safely tied up again and the anchor is back properly attached.
So, before proceeding, here are some pics of the job so far.
We still have some cleaning up to do and I want to "round off" the edges at the hatches etc.
View attachment 87296
View attachment 87297
Interestingly, this was the same foredeck 12 years ago when the boats was new (with her original wood decks) - fresh out of the factory in Sutton Harbour.