YM Elan 360 boat test

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Polux

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Hi, and a good year to all.

I sent this letter to Yachtingmonthly regarding the Elan 360 boat test. I would be interesting in knowing what you think about the subject:

...
"The Elan 360 is a yacht with impressive stability and seaworthiness characteristics. The Stability curve (that you don’t publish) is an exceptionally good one for mass produced modern boats, with a high AVS (about 130º) and a much bigger ratio between the positive stability and negative stability than usual.

The STIX, that is supposed to be an indicator of the boat overall seaworthiness, published on the test (49.6) is exceptionally high for a 36ft. The Stix number is normally associated with the length of the boat in feet and a 36ft having STIX of 46.9 is truly outstanding.

The test sailors on this an on previous tests with the 350 (that has the same hull) noticed the boat great stability and his ability to not round up and keep on sailing even when evidentially it was greatly over canvassed and with excessive heeling, needing a reef. Other boats would have already rounded up on those conditions.

Regarding all those characteristics that make not only the 360 a fast boat but also a very seaworthy boat for its size, what is YachtingMonthly conclusion in what regards offshore passage making potential?: Not suited, having only two stars out of 5. What is the potential regarding trade wind voyaging?: Not suited, having a star out of 5.

It is known, for the test sails and reality that the Elan 360 has a great downwind sailing potential with little rolling due to the type of hull, being easily controllable even solo sailed or on autopilot. Being considered even less suited for trade wind sailing than for offshore passage making is intriguing but all this could have to do with magazine standards, considering than 36ft boats are not suited for offshore sailing but then on the same magazine I found the test of a Hunter Legend 36, a bilge keeled boat with 1.25m of draft, with much worse stability characteristics (STIX and AVS and a lot more freeboard) than the Elan 360, worse sailing downwind potential and the boat is considered suited to offshore passage making (with 3 stars out of 5) and better than the Elan 360 for trade wind voyaging.

I don’t know what leads to these conclusions: Maybe a bigger sun shade with a big bimini on the Hunter?"
 
the YM test is as much a matter of subjective perception as of statistical analysis. The STIX ratio of Elan is high, but not as high, for example, as the Island Packet 485 with 66.


I do not know on what basis the "star" suitability for offshore sailing is based. Perhaps there is an explanation somewhere ?


Best of luck trying to get a reply !
 
Well I posted this recently http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...nces-Between-Mass-Produced-and-Quality-Yachts

Which generated 21 pages of responses but not much concrete info. When I suggested doing an Atlantic circuit in a 36 foot cruiser racer I was told it would be unsuitable! Even though loads do it.

The concrete things I discovered were:
Teak decks are a liability so one up for the elan.
Slamming?
Tankage?
Stowage?

Noone really came up with a reason why a modern lightweight hr or malo has a better hull than a cruiser racer.

I think there is a lot of old prejudice. You can't teach an old dog new tricks and all that!!
 
The stability data you give is, as you say, excellent and Elan should be praised for the boat and making this information public. A shame that other manufacturers can not be made to do the same.

There was a post a little time ago that outlined some of the criteria for dishing out the stars in boat tests. I can't recall any of the detail but it included things like berthing arrangement and below deck facilities. Amongst other things that I have (obviously) forgotten.

It may have been from Snooks, Someone will remember
 
I guess you could easily argue that one very important aspect of a trade wind cruiser would be load carrying ability, and the Élan is going to suffer there. These types of boat do need to be kept light.

Your overall point though is one that I would endorse, but sailors are a conservative bunch, and cruising sailors still more.
 
I guess that the OP either has an Elan or is in the market for one because the test made clear the reasons for the rating. Does the boat sail well? Yes it does, but most other facets are compromised. Deck stowage, cockpit, chart table, cockpit shelter, water tankage, diesel tankage, cabin stowage, finish. Seemed to me that the test report wasnt very positive
 
I really liked the look of it.
Note to Elan, if you bring out a bilge-keel version that draws no more than 1.2m, I'll be first in the queue to buy one.
 
flaming said:
I guess you could easily argue that one very important aspect of a trade wind cruiser would be load carrying ability, and the Élan is going to suffer there. These types of boat do need to be kept light.

Your overall point though is one that I would endorse, but sailors are a conservative bunch, and cruising sailors still more.
Click to expand...

I am sure you are right as you know 10 million times more than me but..................

Go on sailcalc. Elan 360 is not on there. So I compare Elan 340 and HR 342 and they aren't that far apart. Displacement to LWL 196 for the HR 168 for the Elan.

So what was different in the old days doesn't seem so different these days. By the time I get round to buying a cruising boat the AWBs will be the HR 342s of this world!!
 
And HR Rasmus 35 (a proper boat??) Displacement to LWL 258.

So the quality cruising boats are getting lighter are they not??
 
doug748 said:
The stability data you give is, as you say, excellent and Elan should be praised for the boat and making this information public. A shame that other manufacturers can not be made to do the same.

There was a post a little time ago that outlined some of the criteria for dishing out the stars in boat tests. I can't recall any of the detail but it included things like berthing arrangement and below deck facilities. Amongst other things that I have (obviously) forgotten.

It may have been from Snooks, Someone will remember
Click to expand...

Elan is one of the few brands that post on their site information about stability (RM curve) but only in what regards performance cruisers, not on the more fat cruisers.
 
Cantata said:
I really liked the look of it.
Note to Elan, if you bring out a bilge-keel version that draws no more than 1.2m, I'll be first in the queue to buy one.
Click to expand...



You could, but that might bust it down to one star on the Yachting Monthly clapometer. Certainly that STIX would take a tumble.
 
Last edited:
Cantata said:
I really liked the look of it.
Note to Elan, if you bring out a bilge-keel version that draws no more than 1.2m, I'll be first in the queue to buy one.
Click to expand...

A bilge keel with so little draft will not work well, at least on a performance cruisers. The modern solution seems to be the Swing keel with all the ballast on the Keel that has an identical performance to a deep keel. Regarding boats of this size there is one that was presented on Paris boat show, the RM 10.70. Grogeous boat, a pity the price, but I guess you have to pay quality.
http://www.rm-yachts.com/rm1070
 
roblpm said:
I am sure you are right as you know 10 million times more than me but..................

Go on sailcalc. Elan 360 is not on there. So I compare Elan 340 and HR 342 and they aren't that far apart. Displacement to LWL 196 for the HR 168 for the Elan.

So what was different in the old days doesn't seem so different these days. By the time I get round to buying a cruising boat the AWBs will be the HR 342s of this world!!
Click to expand...

Élan 340 is a VERY different boat.
 
Joker said:
That RM10.70 is one of the ugliest I've seen for a long time. It's odd, isn't it, that we buy cars and boats for the least important feature: their looks.
Click to expand...

If aesthetic pleasure matters to a particular buyer then their looks are extremely important, and possibly paramount.
 
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