Yellow Ribs Cardiff Bay (again)

[Allan]

Channelyacht, sir, with greatest respect, would you please read some of the post above and try to be more in tune with this forum. Most people on here try to avoid sort of aggressive attitude which is spoiling other HUW fora.
Allan

 

[chanelyacht]

Channelyacht, sir, with greatest respect, would you please read some of the post above and try to be more in tune with this forum. Most people on here try to avoid sort of aggressive attitude which is spoiling other HUW fora.
Allan

Fair enough, if it came across aggressive it shouldn't have done. I've also edited my original post to ensure this.

Will you also be asking the same of the "pompous twit" originator?

 

[Allan]

I would urge everybody to show respect and be polite at all times. It is only my opinion. Many thanks for changing your previous post. I also apologise for not noticing that my phone had changed YBW to HUW.
Have a good day, looks perfect from here.
Allan

 

[Bosun Higgs]

The people with the whip hand in all this are the harbour authority and their bosses in the council - under the HA bye laws ( here), any commercial operation in Cardiff bay has to have written permission from the harbour master who can of course withdraw this if he sees fit.

However, back in 2009 when this issue first came to my attention I wrote to the HA and the council pointing out the obvious risk in the high speed differences in the bay - mobos doing 30 knots and at the same time 6 year olds learning to sail oppies. We followed this up in person at a harbour authority consultation meeting that happened later that year, but the HA representatives did not seem too worried even when we pointed out that our concerns were on record and would undoubtedly come out into the open were there to be an accident. You can imagine the coroners comments.

So far the HA have been right - there has been no accident. But it seems to me that there will be no real change unless there is one. TBH its not the pros in the ribs that worry me so much as the much less skilled leisure users in speedboats.

As for colregs rule 1 states "These rules shall apply to all vessels upon the high seas and in all waters connected therewith navigable by seagoing vessels". Are locks "connections" in the legal sense. I suppose it will take a court to decide - common sense is never enough for the law.

 

[Allan]

Bosun, I completely agree. Personally I think it is only a matter of time before an accident happens but never mind the HA are prepared to take responsibility.
As far as col regs are concerned I believe they apply. If the bay was inland water we would need the same sort of certificate as narrowboats. I can't remember what it's called.
Allan

 

[wakeup]

The reality is the yellow ribs rides are customers of the HA so you won't see the HA guys banning them any time soon, nor do I think they need to be banned.

Though I do think the HA have a responsibility to 'have a word' with the skippers and operators of the rib rides and spell out what is sensible practice. The rib operators want to give their punters an exciting ride hence the
Manic circling and crossing their own wakes but they should consider others when doing so e.g. Not 50 ft away from dinghy sailors. Ditto the HA need to make clear on VHF to the barrage lock users that priority IS being given to the yellow ribs and one should expect them to appear to cut across those queuing and appear to push in. But we also need to recognise that we all share the bay and no one has a god given right or priority of way and common sense should prevail, and there are those whose livelihoods depend on these operators and us Sunday sailors shouldnt really complain if they are making waves on the ocean heaven forbid!

 

[Frobscottle]

Allan, Col Regs do indeed apply to Cardiff Bay and it is classed as a Category C water body by the MCA.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Ditto the HA need to make clear on VHF to the barrage lock users that priority IS being given to the yellow ribs and one should expect them to appear to cut across those queuing and appear to push in. But we also need to recognise that we all share the bay and no one has a god given right or priority of way and common sense should prevail, and there are those whose livelihoods depend on these operators and us Sunday sailors shouldnt really complain if they are making waves on the ocean heaven forbid!

Rubbish. They are tradesmen and they should wait their turn. They are there all week whilst many of the leisure users have a few precious hours of free time to enjoy themselves. They should get the priority if anyone.

 

[Sneds]

Who says the ribs have the right to push in and jump the queue at the locks?
If this is the case it should be stopped.

 

[wakeup]

I did not say they have the right, but there is clearly a working understanding with barrage control and harbour authority that the always let them squeeze in ASAP when a lock opens, once you realise this is the way they operate just go with the flow, life will be a whole lot more relaxed.

 

[wakeup]

Rubbish. They are tradesmen and they should wait their turn. They are there all week whilst many of the leisure users have a few precious hours of free time to enjoy themselves. They should get the priority if anyone.

Well I think you have an attitude problem, or at the very least a low threshold to others going about their business . I agree and said in my original post I think ha need to have a word to calm them down but I don't think they need to be banned .

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Well I think you have an attitude problem.

Do I or do you? Do you believe that bus drivers should have priority over cars under the highway code. Or truck drivers or white van man? Does the plumber come in the front door of your house and the relatives and visitors have to go in the back door? Never heard of the tradesman's entrance?

I think it's entirely reasonable that the leisure user, trying to make the best of his few free hours, should have the priority if anyone does.

 

[wakeup]

Can you not read ? I did not say I agreed with this policy. As I understand it the yellow ribs pay HA quite a bit more for their access to the bay than us leisure users, that seems (surprise surprise) to have swayed the HA to ensure they can operate smoothly. That is the way it is! If you don't like it then take it up with CHA and don't suggest that I share that opinion. If you paid the same for access to the bay you might have a gripe worthy of bandwidth on here. Your argument has changed from a safety point, which does have merit, to one of having unfettered use of the water, which doesn't have merit.

I think you might find that given the funding gap at CCC which will no doubt translate into a squeeze at CHA you might find them unwilling to take you seriously, as I now do

 

[vikingsmb]

r.e. ribs

sometimes I can understand where you guys are coming from, was on the yacht today with tony and steve out in the bay and a tourist rib were being a nuisance - it wasn't cardiff bay sea safaris as it didn't have flags on it and the boys who run that are pretty good. it had a black hull with a small bit of yellow on it. he was coming close to us when we were trying to have a nice sail creating alot of wash. Allan you know my views on the Ribs don't you....

with the pushing in, I can understand where the poster is coming from, there need to give way to us yachts as we don't have twin screw big outboards, well prop walk does help with single screw and we are bigger/less manoeverable

 

[stownsend]

We had the same this afternoon, one did come close once but the others stayed away.

Cheers

Stu

 

[vikingsmb]

what yacht were you on? also do you remember fraser ingram by the way he was in roath

 

[stownsend]

We were on Shelia Bear, yes I remember Fraser, he was the commander there.

Cheers

Stu

 

[vikingsmb]

he's my dad , are you at CYC or CBYC?

 

[Allan]

sometimes I can understand where you guys are coming from, was on the yacht today with tony and steve out in the bay and a tourist rib were being a nuisance - it wasn't cardiff bay sea safaris as it didn't have flags on it and the boys who run that are pretty good. it had a black hull with a small bit of yellow on it. he was coming close to us when we were trying to have a nice sail creating alot of wash. Allan you know my views on the Ribs don't you....

with the pushing in, I can understand where the poster is coming from, there need to give way to us yachts as we don't have twin screw big outboards, well prop walk does help with single screw and we are bigger/less manoeverable

I don't know your view on RIBs and in fact it is not important. All skippers are obliged to respect the rules, whether they be bye-laws or the collision regulations. High speed is allowed in the bay, we live with it.
The last thing that is needed in the bay or anywhere else would be one type of motorboat having to give way to anther type of motorboat based on some new and local definition.
Allan

 

[stownsend]

When you mentioned his name I thought he was a relation. We down at CBYC, been members for a couple of years, Shelia Bear is our new boat, had it about 3 weeks !