YBW.com - price comparison

[zefender]

Only one product admittedly - but my enquiry was genuine. So I set about checking out some prices for a JRC1000. The specs all seems the same (and I apologise profusely if they are not) and most prices clustered around a similar price point.- with one exception: ...

Marine Electronics...........................649.95
Seamark & Nunn ............................675.00
Yachtbits ........................................670.00
Skywave .........................................640.00
Marine on-line .................................695.87
Mailspeed Marine ............................640.00

and ....

YBW.com Marine Store...................799.95

YBW is some 20% higher than the median price.

And my point?
Well had I chosen to 'trust' a magazine of which I am a subscriber to buy the kit, that trust would have been tested a bit if I later found out that I could have saved £150/5 years subscription by buying elsewhere.

Doesn't YM/YBW care about its 'brand value' or customer relationship? Entering into a commercial relationship with suppliers and to associate with their offer puts at risk an equity likely to be worth much more than the commercial gains to be made IMHO.

We all know that anything to do with boats seems to cost way more than the price of an identical product bought elsewhere (eg dehumifiers) but it would be nice if YBW could take a bit of a stand and disassociate itself from the rip-offs.

 

[JeremyF]

We had a very similar series of comments when they lauched the new association with Compass. I think we need to be grown up consumers, and recognise that the 'ybw' store is nothing to do with our friendly YM editor, or indeed Kim. Instead its an affinity marketing deal for IPC publishing with Compass.

Compass are great value for some stuff, and pretty poor for electronics. From a response we had from Compass, they don't understand that different products can get different mark-ups, so they seem to apply a flat mark-up. On stuff with high competition, i.e. electronics they are expensive. Clothing, for example, they are cheap(ish)

As always Caveat Emptor


Jeremy Flynn

www.yacht-goldeneye.co.uk
New pics 11.02.02

 

[billskip]

Dont know what you do for your money ..but i think you should look at marketing more closely..why dont you go shouting to the big supermarkets when they advertise lossleaders and charge more for other products??..did you compare the whole range or only the one item?..shopping is so easy now with the net..you can compare prices and shop for cheapest at several diferent stores without leaving your chair...BTW did you check the price Harrods charge....And another thing with supermarkets..why when they charge for somthing you havent had its "mistake" and when you take something by "mistake" its theft...

Bill
www.aegeansailing.co.uk

 

[zefender]

Re: Affinity Marketing - oh that\'s OK then

I read the previous thread a while back. I saw the point of the comments but was bit distanced from it all. It's just a bit different when you actually do the shopping yourself! I certainly don't hold the YM Editor or Kim as responsible. Compass can of course sell whatever they like at whatever price. However, one can't really dismiss the impact of uncompetitive prices as just "an affinity marketing deal". YBW is putting its name (and therefore its reputation) on the venture. My point was that affinity marketing itself is very risky and may not be nearly so profitable as the top-line gain might suggest.

And I'm still irritated that doing business with a supplier co-branded with a good magazine would have cost me £150 more than a broad basket of other sources! Bear in mind that not one source came close to the YBW price.

 

[JeremyF]

Re: Affinity Marketing - oh that\'s OK then

OK, youre right, lets shoot Kim for allowing any association with Compass!!

A minor victory was achieved within 24 hours of its launch. Someone spotted they were using the words 'unbeatable prices' and kim got it changed to 'permanently low prices'

Look, my point is that Compass can be great value. I bought a low-end handheld GPS including 12v PSU and bracket for £80, and a lifejacket for some crazy low price. They are good on some things, and bad on others.

I actually am very pleased IPC have brought us more choice. Always shop around, but if Compass has the right deal, then why not let IPC have a slice of e-commerce revenue. It will help contribute to paying for this free site we all love.

Jeremy Flynn

www.yacht-goldeneye.co.uk
New pics 11.02.02

 

[kimhollamby]

Brand association - a reply

I don't think that brand association is solely about the price break on one single product. We are certainly not in the game of pretending that there are no other choices out there. Indeed our Shopping Quay very effectively highlights links to some of the companies you have solicited alternative quotations from and I know from our traffic figures that users of these websites including www.yachtingmonthly.com use that facility every month to comparison shop, just as they do with magazine advertisements.

The key thing about brand association (with ybw.com, not Yachting Monthly as you imply) is that it is very much about making sure that our partners uphold the Yachting and Boating World brand in terms of levels of service. And if that fails then the benefit for you, the customer, is that you have a very easy means of raising issues here and we employ a transparent and rapid means of tackling them.

Price is a much more complicated issue and we acceed that we are not, with any of our partnerships, in the 'never knowingly beaten' marketplace across every product. Thanks to the Shopping Quay and also the 6000 companies listed in our marine directory (http://www.ybw.com/directory), we don't need to be, even if that was possible.

Rip-off is an emotive word that implies some kind of intent to defraud, or at the very least some kind of monopoly stranglehold over prices. Far from that our websites and magazines provide a competitive marketplace for products and if you decide to purchase from Mailspeed or Skywave on this occasion then one could argue that our services have in fact served you very well indeed.

Associate Publisher ybw.com websites kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[zefender]

Re: Brand association - a reply

I began my post by admitting that the comparison was indeed limited to one product (albeit it probably the best-selling product in a far from niche sector). Maybe if I comparison shopped for every single item on my pre-season list I could have concluded the same, or differently. But I can't be bothered. So I was looking for a place that had the stock, the range, the prices (not the lowest penny difference in every case) and, yes, the service - whatever that means.

Shopping Quay is indeed a good place to start - that's (mostly) what I used. But these are advertisers. The YBW Marine Store is some way off that. It's a place run by a 'mate', a place I frequently stop at which was introduced to me by another 'mate' -YM (no brand association?). I thought we got along fine. I paid money to one and he gave me good content (and some ads). I get the other one free (but have less choice about the ads) and get good content. Then one of my friends tells me about someone he's working with as a partner to supply bits and pieces for my boat. He tells me that they have "permanently low prices" and (as opposed to 'on') "over 8,000 items". He's my friend, so I trust him.
When I find out that the partner charges 20% more than the competition for a product I want, my friend turns round and tells me that he didn't say they were good value (on everything) and really I should have shopped around, rather than trust him. He said that it is really easy to check others. I thought, for a moment that he might have asked his new 'partner' to have a price checking facility on the net and only sell those things to his friends that weren't more than, say 10% over competitors, but decided against it.
So I wander home, thinking I had friends, sniffing my armpits, feeling I had obviously just been naive.

I wonder why the chandlery/kit distribution market has seen so many failures in recent times. Could it be that none of them gives a toss about pricing strategies, building long term customer relationships and concentrate instead on ad hoc transactions?

Relationship marketing sermons ends....

 

[tadpole]

I think the simple fact is that a lot of yachtsmen are not short of a bob or two and are not too concerned at prices - preferring convenience.
Relatively poor people at the lower end of the boating scale, like my lot, ALWAYS shop around.
SteveB

 

[billskip]

Never heard a yachtperson yet that hasnt complained about the cost...so ive never met a rich yachtie.. do they exist?

Bill
www.aegeansailing.co.uk

 

[billmacfarlane]

I should imagine that the reason that some yachtsman aren't short of a bob or two ( for those of us that remember bobs ) , is partly due to the fact that they DO shop around.

 

[Roberto]

Re: Brand association - a reply

The Chinese (or whoever else?) had it right: lend your money to a friend and you will end up losing both the money and your friend.
I was sort of "sentimental shopper" as well, I struggled with myself to be more careful but eventually spent all the money so now I am back sowing cotton seeds to make cotton fibre to make cotton cloth to make cotton sails...

 

[bedouin]

It's a bit unfair judging the whole offering from a single price comparison!

It pays to shop around - but Compass do offer some good deals on everyday items and I use them quite frequently.

I would never consider buying a Radar from a mail-order chandler anyway

 

[pvb]

You\'re absolutely right...

About a month ago, I started the thread “Unbeatable prices?” on this forum, objecting to the fact that the ybw.com Marine Store was claiming unbeatable prices, when this was clearly untrue. Like you, I thought that subscribers were owed a little more honesty from IPC.

IPC has invested huge sums of money, both in the ybw.com website, and in the individual magazine titles. The magazines, by and large, enjoy a reputation for authoritative, responsible, reliable communications. This is the result of many years' hard work by dedicated editors and journalists. You can't just go out and buy that sort of reputation.

So, when you have a website which mirrors those magazines, and which you describe as "Europe's No 1 Marine Website", why would you want to lend your name to a joint-venture Marine Store unless it enhanced your reputation?

After all, what's the point of getting involved in a joint venture Marine Store unless you can at least get close to the prices charged by the firms who pay to advertise elsewhere on ybw.com?

It wouldn't be so bad if the prices were broadly comparable, but we're talking about BIG differences. You objected to the fact that the YBW price for a JRC1000 was 20% higher than competitors. It’s a good job you didn’t compare the JRC1500, where the YBW price is 57% higher than Mailspeed!

Kim Hollamby’s reply to your post looks like a desperate bid to defend what, in fairness, probably wasn’t his decision. But it’s not credible for him to try to defend such blatant overcharging by claiming better service.

And if, as Kim claims, YBW isn’t in the “never knowingly beaten” marketplace, how do we interpret the YBW Marine Store claims of “top brands at permanently low prices”, or “amazing prices”, or “the best quality at the best price”?

 

[zefender]

Re: sample error

Maybe I am being a bit unfair choosing one product (I too was looking mainly for the 1500 but had more detail of other stockists on the 1000) but it is actually quite difficult to draw up a list of prices for lots of suppliers for lots of products because of stocking policies and true comparison between the products. With electical products it is a bit easier to check. A fender costing £30 may look similar on the web but on closer inspection it may not be. Same is true of lots of the Compass branded stuff - it may well be absolutely fine (and I've bought plenty of it in the past) but again, the comparison of things like clothing on price alone is impractical. The reality is that I would prefer to find a supplier that across a basket of typical items had reasonable prices (I know they would be unlikely to be the cheapest on everything). So maybe more comparisons are needed to make the point (statisticallyish) valid.

Come on then Kim, you were very quick to put up a fuel price forum - how about a chandlery pricing forum so everyone can publish their shopping finds? I'll stand you a pint if your 'partner' has been wronged. And the first to eat my Compass wooly hat!

 

[milltech]

Re: You\'re absolutely right...

I admit I didn't see the original context, but if someone advertises "unbeatable prices" it surely doesn't mean that every price must be unbeatable. It's a generic statement to encourage you to come and look, we live in a sophisticated world and we're surely expected to know how many beans make five, and to recognise an advertising slogan for what it is.

Compass, like all catalogue companies, lack the ability to change the prices to meet every momentary change in the market and as customers we know that. They deliver a different kind of service, and not necessarily the worse for it. They have the means for high level service support, fast delivery and generally good value. You pays your money and takes your choice.

I'm 57, should I expect that by wearing the right aftershave I will have twenty something babe's crawling all over me? I don't expect a too literal interpretation of every claim, should we not consider ourselves educated in these matters. This is not at all to defend a false claim for a specific product which is a different matter.

I would have thought that if they had two unbeatable prices they would have made the point well enough.

Boat Junkie

 

[tadpole]

So which planet do you sail on then?
I take it that's your nice ketch in the photo?
Chin, chin!

 

[pvb]

But you\'re only partly right...

But don't confuse aspirational "lifestyle" advertising images with specific claims.

Your aftershave analogy is clearly a lifestyle image - there's no specific claim or promise made. But if an aftershave ad were to say "use our aftershave and you'll be surrounded by nubile girls", you'd have a valid claim against them if it didn't work, because they're in breach of advertising law!

Similarly, if YBW/Compass promise "the best products at the best prices" and then charge 50% more than competitors, they also are breaking the law. I find it surprising, especially as Compass are no strangers to the Wiltshire Trading Standards office. Maybe someone will report them one day.

 

[billskip]

I sail on any planet..anywere at anytime..at moment in aegean..yes its my ketch..where do you sail?

Bill
www.aegeansailing.co.uk

 

[milltech]

Re: But you\'re only partly right...

"the best products at the best prices"

Umm, well I didn't see that, perhaps I'll remove fingers from keyboard, (forum equivalent of keeping ones mouth shut).

Boat Junkie

 

[yachtbits]

Comment from one of those suppliers

Gentlemen,

I feel that as my company was listed in the initial thread I am entiled to pass comment on this subject.

Yes we are approx 4.5% more expensive than some of the other retailers on this product, but we do not sell other items like fenders and clothing which have much higher profit margins. These other products subsidise the high discounts on key products like the JRC1000 in the hope you buy a coat as well.

We also sell all the other bits needed for the installation, like mast brackets, mast conduit, deck glands, switch panels and just about everything right down to spare fuses and cable ties. We know that some of the "box-shifters" don't supply these because one of our recent customers bought a JRC1000 at the boat show from one of them, then came to us for the mast bracket and advice on a connector to interface it to their gps!

The extra 4.5% allows us to provide technical advice on the products we sell, like one recent customer has found out when he needed a new high-spec autopilot specified for his motorboat. Numerous emails have finally specified exactly what he wants, and made sure it will work when it is fitted.

The extra 4.5% also stops us doing what the original onlinemarine (the former YBW partner) and cruisermart did. i.e. gone due to financial problems. And Cruisermart still owe the RNLI station I crew for, eighty quid! (supporting yachtbits keeps one crew man employed in a job that allows him to carry that pager)

We do often offer special prices for multiple purchases and a discount on reasonable size orders for payment by cheque or debit card, purely because it reduces our bank charges and reduces our exposure to credit card fraud.

I won't go into "grey imports". I know one retailer is selling Furuno GPS's not imported through the UK importer, so be wary about warranty problems!

And finally, as a paying advertiser in the YBW directory, I am still undecided about continuing to pay to advertise on a website that also has its own shop!

happy sailing, roll on summer.

kev


www.yachtbits.co.uk
sales@yachtbits.co.uk
marine electrical/electronics specialists